Western Culture; why are we so driven to push independence

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#1
So I have been doing a lot of research on babies, obviously since I have one:D and have been practicing "attachment parenting" with Chloe. For those of you who are not aware of what attachment parenting is, it is a term coined by Dr. Sears that basically means what the term implies; ie. responding to your babies cues in a timely, nurturing manner. When Chloe cries her needs are met in as timely a manner as possible. She Co-sleeps with me and DH and during the day spends most of her time either in-arms or in the wrap. I rarely use "containment objects" such as the swing, stroller, or chairs. Chloe is never left to "cry-it-out". If she has had all her needs met and is still fussing/crying then she is doing so in my arms while I reassure her. Sometimes babies do need to cry to let off some steam but I believe it should be in a environment that is respectful of her feelings and comforting for her. I know when I cry I would hate to be ignored and would start to feel that I was not valued if I was consistently ignored when I voiced a need.

Looking at other cultures (excluding America and most of Europe) you will find that babies cries are responded to immediatly, babies sleep with their families and spend the majority of their time with their caregivers, who are not necessarily engaging them, just allowing them to observe the world they are soon to join. These cultures tend to have a much decreased issue with mental health problems, social issues, and behavioral issues as adults. Their babies brains are able to form neural pathways in a healthy manner. Their babies cortisol levels are much lower than babies in Western cultures where "sleeping through the night" and "crying it out" are practiced.

When my baby cries my brain triggers a chemical reaction that encourages me to respond to her cue. Why are we so keen on ignoring this biological urge to comfort our young? Why are we so eager to brag that our new baby is sleeping through the night? Why are we so happy to have a baby that has given up on trying to communicate with us in the only way they know how, crying?

When we push our babies to be independent (a completely unnatural practice) they lose trust in us their caregiver. Here they are on this strange planet where they don't speak the language, and they are constantly bombarded with outside stimuli that they have no way of comprehending, and when they use the only tool they have to communicate with us we ignore it. How despairing to that infant to not understand why no one is coming to comfort them when they are distressed.

Why as a culture are we so impressed with independence? No human adult likes to be ignored when they are scared, hungry, hurt, sad, angry, uncomfortable, or lonely but we encourage it in our infants.

We have years ahead of us to practice our independence. Research shows that if we are nurtured, loved and responded to as infants/toddler we become more outgoing and self assured children and adults. I believe our society would be much more peaceful if we all grew up knowing we were cared for and our needs would be met.

/end rant\
 

bubbatd

Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
64,812
Likes
1
Points
0
Age
91
#2
Problem is most Mothers are having to work .....babies suffer . Independance is started way too early...starting with weaning . I don't believe in co sleeping though .
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#3
I don't believe in co sleeping though .
Can I ask your reasoning Grammy?

You are right that most mothers have to go back to work WAY to early. It is so unfair that we have such a crappy maternity leave here in the US. Drives me crazy!! However, it has been shown that as long as "any" primary caregiver is nurturing it holds the same benefits to the baby.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#4
I would hazard a guess that a great deal of what you're talking about, Adrienne, goes back to the early pollution of western European cultures by the Roman Empire.
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#5
I would hazard a guess that a great deal of what you're talking about, Adrienne, goes back to the early pollution of western European cultures by the Roman Empire.

You know Renee you are exactly right. "The Church" started a scare tactic campaign that co-sleeping parents would smother their children when in all actuality they were concerned that a mother would have to much influence on her child, especially her sons.

To sad that we still believe in that crap as a society.
 
S

Squishy22

Guest
#6
I agree with everything you have stated. I dont get it either.

You don't know how many times I've been told I am spoiling my daughter for tending to her when she cries. It irritates me more than anything.

After co-sleeping with her, something that I did not plan on doing, I couldnt even imagine her being in a separate bed away from me, let alone in another room. After getting her home from the hospital and putting her into a crib just made me so uneasy, it was really unnatural. I do think 5-6 months old is a good time to start "weaning" her from your bed, IF thats what you want. Obviously a husband and wife need their time too, or your relationship might suffer.

Crying it out is a good thing to try IF all else has failed. With Madison, she would keep crying even with me sitting there with her and comforting her through her crib. It took 3 nights to get her used to her own bed, THATS IT! And I doubt she even remembers the transition time. I will say that I do not believe in just plopping your baby down and leaving the room for her to feel neglected and alone. Thats not right in my eyes. I was always with her... talking to her, shushing, holding her hand, and rocking her crib. NEVER pick her up though, because that will enforce her that crying equals being picked up.

If you force your child to be more independent than they are ready for, they'll lose trust in you. You need to ease them into it, at their own pace.
 

ACooper

Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
27,772
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
IN
#7
Well I didn't call it "attachment parenting" but I guess I was WAY ahead of my time! LOL........as was my mother and grandmother! LOL

My babies never laid and cried, I responded and tried to comfort or help soothe them immediately. I would hold and cuddle them as they fell asleep, during their sleep, all the way till they woke from naps. I worked around their schedule of hunger in the night.......I never tried to adjust them to mine.

But I had that luxury, not all mom's do. I had people telling me I would "spoil" the baby, but I had a really loving pediatrician who disputed those claims when I brought them up..........he said "Angela, what does the term "spoiled" mean to you? Does it mean your baby is loved too much?" I thought he had a good point and actually they never turned into babies that demanded to be held if I couldn't at the moment :)

I would like to add to your rant. Too many parents of infants rush to put food in the mouth of a crying infant. That is the first thing they try. Babies cry for many reasons, pain, fear, too hot, too cold, diaper change.......if you just shove food in their face to hush them what do you think they learn? Food = comfort in every situation. Scared? Eat. Pain? Eat. Discomfort? Eat.

Something to really consider.
 
S

Squishy22

Guest
#9
You know Renee you are exactly right. "The Church" started a scare tactic campaign that co-sleeping parents would smother their children when in all actuality they were concerned that a mother would have to much influence on her child, especially her sons.

To sad that we still believe in that crap as a society.
Thats what I've always thought. I though parents who co-slept were putting their child at great danger for their own selfish needs, and laziness. That is NOT true. It CAN be done, and very safely too.
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#11
Thats what I've always thought. I though parents who co-slept were putting their child at great danger for their own selfish needs, and laziness. That is NOT true. It CAN be done, and very safely too.

Sure can! When they publish their studies on co-sleeping safety (like the AAP) they don't take into account if the parent was on drugs, had problems like sleep apnea, what kind of surface it happened on.

A friend of mine almost lost her son. Had she not been co-sleeping he would have died. She woke up soaking wet and thought she had "leaked". Decided to peek at her son right next to her. He was not breathing. He had vomited in his sleep and did not wake up or make any noises she could hear. Had he been in another room he might have aspirated and died!
 

zoe08

New Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
5,160
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Texas
#12
I will have my baby's bed right next to mine when I have a baby, but I won't put them in my bed. I kick, I toss, I turn, so does hubby. I would NOT feel comfortable with my baby in my bed. I've been elbowed in the head in the middle of the night, and hubby has too.
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#13
I would like to add to your rant. Too many parents of infants rush to put food in the mouth of a crying infant. That is the first thing they try. Babies cry for many reasons, pain, fear, too hot, too cold, diaper change.......if you just shove food in their face to hush them what do you think they learn? Food = comfort in every situation. Scared? Eat. Pain? Eat. Discomfort? Eat.

Something to really consider.
Also true. Especially with all the obesity problems we have over here! We are also so eager to feed them "real" food. I know people trying to have a three week old eating cereal. Ridiculous! Their poor little virgin guts have no clue what to do with that crap!
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#14
I will have my baby's bed right next to mine when I have a baby, but I won't put them in my bed. I kick, I toss, I turn, so does hubby. I would NOT feel comfortable with my baby in my bed. I've been elbowed in the head in the middle of the night, and hubby has too.
Every family has to do what is right for them. I have no problem with babies being in their own beds. Some even sleep better there. My problem is with parents who think that when the lights are out parenting ends.
 

sparks19

I'd rather be at Disney
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
28,563
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
42
Location
Lancaster, PA
#15
well....

while I didn't know it... I have been practicing attachment parenting. I am a stay at home mom. Hannah's first 6 months or so of life she spent in my arms (sleeping, playing, eating etc) Other than at night because lets face it... I don't find there is enough room in my bed for just my hubby and I... adding a baby to the mix would only result in me not sleeping at all lol. but she did take naps with me in my bed when hubby was at work and she had half the bed for herself (plus she is a NOISY sleeper... like me lol)

she was NEVER left to cry it out... EVER. I just couldn't do it. I could not just sit there and listen to her cry :( it killed me. I would snuggle her to sleep every night and have her sleep in my arms for her entire naps. I never wanted to let her go.

But despite all that or perhaps because of it... in the last few months (more specifically since she has learned to crawl) she has become SO insanely independant and is very confident. while everyone was suggesting that I put her in her crib awake to fall asleep I simply said that I would cuddler her to sleep as long as she would let me since it wouldn't last forever and deal with the consequences later. now she doesn't want to be held... EVER. she is too "busy" to want to deal with my cuddling lol. I also can no longer cuddle her to sleep as she only wants to play despite how tired she OBVIOUSLY is. In her own way she basically demanded that I put her in her crib to sleep on her own. the first time I EVER tried to put her in her crib to fall asleep... she played for a few moments and was fast asleep within ten minutes and has consistently done so ever since. Even when she wakes up she will play in her crib until I come to get her... and I will admit that some days when I am really tired I let her play in her crib for an hour while I rest a little more and she never fusses. She just plays with her aquarium and her pooh bear. She has just become such an independant little being despite MY clinging to HER lol.

if she has hurt herself or is upset... I comfort her... it just makes her cry MORE lol. If I distract her with something else... she is happy within seconds and forgets all about her boo boo and carries on with her business.

Sure there are times when she needs me to snuggle her (rare though they may be) but more often than not I am a burden to her lol. she loves to see me but does not get upset if I leave the room... she always knows I am coming back. Her stranger anxiety lasts for a max of two minutes when they first arrive but other than that she has no issue going to new people or being in a room full of new people.

She is AMAZINGLY confident in herself and seems to have very little fear of anything... In fact she seems to find it hilarious when she is startled lol. she is definitely going to be my horror movie junkie at a young age just like I was lol. Honestly... if I sneak up and tickle her she laughs like nothing else. she thinks it's funny and she even tries to scare me by suddenly going "AHHHHHH" and making a sudden movement lol. I fake it like I'm startled ;)

So from my experience with her (now of course this does not apply to all babies since they are all different in their needs and wants) but being so close to her all the time has served to make her MORE independant and MUCH more confident than she probably would be if I left her to cry it out.

ETA: I eventually started Hannah on a schedule for feeding and such that seemed to work so well that she never had to WANT for ANYTHING. I fed her before she even thought to cry for a feeding but late enough that I knew she would be hungry soon. naps when I knew she would be getting sleepy but not tired enough that she would get grumpy. She hardly ever had to ASK for anything (and signing REALLY helps) it was always supplied for her before she got the point of a meltdown.
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#16
Yep Sparks, from your picture thread I could see that you were into snuggling and loving her as often as she allows! She is so confident because she trusts that when she needs you, you will be right there! Doesn't it do your heart good to know that? :D
 

sparks19

I'd rather be at Disney
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
28,563
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
42
Location
Lancaster, PA
#17
Yep Sparks, from your picture thread I could see that you were into snuggling and loving her as often as she allows! She is so confident because she trusts that when she needs you, you will be right there! Doesn't it do your heart good to know that? :D
it sure does :)

I am also llucky to have a pediatrician that feels that you can't love on your baby too much. Never ONCE did she suggest to me that she should be going to sleep on her own in her crib. She never even ASKED because it;s not important.

Having been so close to Hannah and being there for her every need I feel that I have given her the confidence to BE more independant early... even though that's not nessecarily what I want ;) (parenting is so conflicting lol. I want her to stay my little baby forever) she has no fear because she knows I am ALWAYS there even when she can't see me.

I have never pushed her to do anything she didn't initiate on her own... Like sleeping through the night.

she slept through the night early on but she also went down for GOOD pretty late... like when we were ready to go to bed that was bedtime for her. Now she goes to bed around 8:30... but she also has recently started waking in the night for a feeding. and that is perfectly fine with me. I get up and do whatever she needs and then we both go back to sleep peacefully. she knows that I am ALWAYS close by for her and will always come for her when she calls.

And when she gets a little older and has a bad dream or is scared of storms I will welcome her into my bed with open arms. My mom NEVER turned me away at night when I was scared no matter how old I was and I am so grateful for that and I will NEVER EVER do that to Hannah either. If she is scared she is welcome in my bed anytime and I will cherish those times that I again get to snuggle her as I know they will be few and far between as she gets older and older.

they are only your babies for so long... I will take FULL advantage of that as long as I can and I will deal with the consequences later but for now... she's my sweet baby girl and I will treat her as such :)
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#19
It sure does make a difference when your Doctor backs you up. I think that is where some of the problem lies. We believe Doctors are God-like in their knowledge which is not always true. After all they don't have any stake in your child's life so recommending them to cry-it-out isn't going to affect them in any way.

I am super lucky as well. Our family Doctor is very laid back and encourages you to do what you feel is right or best for your child. I just love her!!
 

Adrienne

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
2,645
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#20
Adrienne...you have GOT to read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Pri...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217133005&sr=8-1
It´s really nice...I think you´ll love it. I feel it´s one of those books EVERY parent should read. I read it and re-read it, and I don´t even have kids. It just helped me to understand so many things!
Thanks for the link. I will have to check that book out! Sometimes I think we should stop trying to separate ourselves from animals, after all we are mammals by nature!
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top