We need to do something, now
- Thread starter yilduz
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It's not even that it's sometimes she doesn't care and sometimes she wants to eat the cat. It's like sometimes she's happy with the cat. The cat walks by, the dog smells her, licks her, the cat rubs against the dog, everything is great. They lay in the sun together next to the patio door - but then sometimes the dog wants to go after her. Not in a playful way or even like a "I want to eat you" way, but more of a rage way, like she wants to tear the cat apart because of rage.
Here is some excellent reading for you. It's free. But if you're in danger, I seriously think you should get a certified behaviorist to help you. Of course, you must be careful who you get. I know you said already that you can't afford that. So pleeeeeze don't swear at me. 
You have the right to remain silent. If you can not afford a behaviorist, one might be appointed to you by the court. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I think of all the frivolous lawsuits that occur and they win, I can't help but wonder when or why someone doesn't try suing the National Geographic people who produce this dangerous dog whisperer show. And they're relentless even after all the many warnings by top professionals, real behaviorists etc. Now, there's a way you might get some money to pay for some good professional help.
I agree that Victoria Stillwell is a vastly superior trainer than CM. CM isn't even a trainer. He just makes stuff up that has no basis in anything relative to dogs.
Unfortunately, the things you've done inadvertently, not knowing... which come recommended by CM are so commonly the reasons why vast numbers of show 'em who's boss people see these kinds troubles develop in their dogs down the road, why other trainers have to pick up the pieces. I have one client right now who followed his be the alpha, show 'em his place b.s. and now has a human aggressive dog...wasn't before. And why you hear, "he never did that before and then all of a sudden, out of the blue....." Yes, before he was suppressed and holding it in. Then he exploded. Typical.
Of course, that does not include the bit about your dog going after the cat. That is just something dogs sometimes do, as it was explained. He never did it before....Behavior never stays in one place. It changes constantly. There are a kazillion variables that affect behavior every second of the day. With the cat, keep them separated. What the dog did to your wife sounds like he didn't mean to bite your wife, but redirected his predatory behavior toward her out of frustration...not a consciously thought out thing. With the other stuff, I wish you the best. Please read these articles, at least for a start.
http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/2525/posses.htm
http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html
http://thebark.typepad.com/barking/2006/05/more_on_millan_.html
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nothingfree.htm
You have the right to remain silent. If you can not afford a behaviorist, one might be appointed to you by the court. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I think of all the frivolous lawsuits that occur and they win, I can't help but wonder when or why someone doesn't try suing the National Geographic people who produce this dangerous dog whisperer show. And they're relentless even after all the many warnings by top professionals, real behaviorists etc. Now, there's a way you might get some money to pay for some good professional help. I agree that Victoria Stillwell is a vastly superior trainer than CM. CM isn't even a trainer. He just makes stuff up that has no basis in anything relative to dogs.
Unfortunately, the things you've done inadvertently, not knowing... which come recommended by CM are so commonly the reasons why vast numbers of show 'em who's boss people see these kinds troubles develop in their dogs down the road, why other trainers have to pick up the pieces. I have one client right now who followed his be the alpha, show 'em his place b.s. and now has a human aggressive dog...wasn't before. And why you hear, "he never did that before and then all of a sudden, out of the blue....." Yes, before he was suppressed and holding it in. Then he exploded. Typical.
Of course, that does not include the bit about your dog going after the cat. That is just something dogs sometimes do, as it was explained. He never did it before....Behavior never stays in one place. It changes constantly. There are a kazillion variables that affect behavior every second of the day. With the cat, keep them separated. What the dog did to your wife sounds like he didn't mean to bite your wife, but redirected his predatory behavior toward her out of frustration...not a consciously thought out thing. With the other stuff, I wish you the best. Please read these articles, at least for a start.
http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/2525/posses.htm
http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html
http://thebark.typepad.com/barking/2006/05/more_on_millan_.html
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nothingfree.htm
The "please oh please" was not sarcastic, but I'm really glad you used it in that manner. I am DEEPLY concerned, because a member recently put their dog to sleep after a bite that was incurred from a dog with guarding issues, because they physically challenged the dog while it was guarding, in an attempt to emulate "The Dog Whisperer". I was reiterating that point because it is TRULY dangerous to use physical methods with any dog, particularly a dog with re-directed aggression/guarding/drive issues, and I did so only out of concern for YOU and YOUR dog. I am so sorry for worrying about you.
I apologize profusely for taking time to post suggestions... I'm sure it hurt you deeply to spend 3 seconds reading them. D: This is a very confusing and shocking thread, to say the least. And obviously, some basic things DO need to be re-iterated, and you must realize that half of the battle IS management, with practically any behavioral problem. I'm sorry, but there is no instant gratification in dog training - NO method is going to fix an issue in under a week that has been progressing & progressing over years, and being exacerbated by fear-based techniques.
Ugh. I'm done with this thread. My input is obviously not appreciated, anyway. I feel for that dog.
I apologize profusely for taking time to post suggestions... I'm sure it hurt you deeply to spend 3 seconds reading them. D: This is a very confusing and shocking thread, to say the least. And obviously, some basic things DO need to be re-iterated, and you must realize that half of the battle IS management, with practically any behavioral problem. I'm sorry, but there is no instant gratification in dog training - NO method is going to fix an issue in under a week that has been progressing & progressing over years, and being exacerbated by fear-based techniques.
Ugh. I'm done with this thread. My input is obviously not appreciated, anyway. I feel for that dog.
I had a Lab during the years I had cats. They grew up together and there was never one iota of a problem with my Lab. Same with my GSD before my Lab. I would leave for the day and leave them together and not think a thing of it. They seemed to love eachother just fine. Regarding your dog, we can never know exactly what is going on in a dog's head, why this or why that. You can struggle and speculate to your heart's content but it is unlikely to know for sure why this or why that. If I had a dog who even once displayed the predatory behavior your described, even if he was fine before, I can tell you what my remedy would be. No attempts at training, no reasoning, no speculating. It's really very simple. I'd keep the animals separate because I would not want to risk what that dog could do to a cat in a heart beat.
The "please oh please" was not sarcastic, but I'm really glad you used it in that manner. I am DEEPLY concerned, because a member recently put their dog to sleep after a bite that was incurred from a dog with guarding issues, because they physically challenged the dog while it was guarding, in an attempt to emulate "The Dog Whisperer". I was reiterating that point because it is TRULY dangerous to use physical methods with any dog, particularly a dog with re-directed aggression/guarding/drive issues, and I did so only out of concern for YOU and YOUR dog. I am so sorry for worrying about you.
I apologize profusely for taking time to post suggestions... I'm sure it hurt you deeply to spend 3 seconds reading them. D: This is a very confusing and shocking thread, to say the least. And obviously, some basic things DO need to be re-iterated, and you must realize that half of the battle IS management, with practically any behavioral problem. I'm sorry, but there is no instant gratification in dog training - NO method is going to fix an issue in under a week that has been progressing & progressing over years, and being exacerbated by fear-based techniques.
Ugh. I'm done with this thread. My input is obviously not appreciated, anyway. I feel for that dog.
I apologize profusely for taking time to post suggestions... I'm sure it hurt you deeply to spend 3 seconds reading them. D: This is a very confusing and shocking thread, to say the least. And obviously, some basic things DO need to be re-iterated, and you must realize that half of the battle IS management, with practically any behavioral problem. I'm sorry, but there is no instant gratification in dog training - NO method is going to fix an issue in under a week that has been progressing & progressing over years, and being exacerbated by fear-based techniques.
Ugh. I'm done with this thread. My input is obviously not appreciated, anyway. I feel for that dog.
Im sorry. Honestly. I just feel like with some people in this thread I have been trying to explain how it is, which is honestly, very hard to do, and have just been slapped in the face with negative energy. Which is not helping the situation. So again I am sorry. I am dealing with my emotions in the best way I can right now which is to be direct and objective. This thread IS all sorts of messed up.
I never said I wanted an auto-fix. I understand that it is simply not possible.
But I also know how to differentiate between what a dog is directing their energy at. I have been around Athena long enough to know who she is gearing her energy towards.
I have read through some of the articles you posted. Thank you. I will keep reading them. I think we need to re-assess the NILIF policy, because maybe all this has just been a break down of communication between my husband and I.
But look at this:
Why would a dog LOVE and be FRIENDS with a cat one day,and want to eat it the next, and go between these two things all the time? I understand if a dog is fine with cats inside a house, but wants to chase them outside the house, Daisy is like that. But this is sounds different than that, and it just seems weird to me that a dog would flip-flop like that.
Benji is a terrier, and he liked the cats when we first got him as he was still puppyish. Once he matured his prey drive turned on and he's wanted to "GET" the cats ever since. There was no flip-flopping at all. Its the same in and out of the house.
Why would a dog LOVE and be FRIENDS with a cat one day,and want to eat it the next, and go between these two things all the time? I understand if a dog is fine with cats inside a house, but wants to chase them outside the house, Daisy is like that. But this is sounds different than that, and it just seems weird to me that a dog would flip-flop like that.
Benji is a terrier, and he liked the cats when we first got him as he was still puppyish. Once he matured his prey drive turned on and he's wanted to "GET" the cats ever since. There was no flip-flopping at all. Its the same in and out of the house.
My husband has been taking care of the dog today while we talked about options and such. I just let her outside and then talked to my husband about being on the same page and returning to NILIF methods and being CONSISTENT and OBSERVANT and not letting ANYTHING go by with out being earned. After this, I took the dogs sweater outside (its a bit chilly in Wisconsin right now) and making her sit and down before i put it on. She was too antsy and jumping all over the place so I walked away, took a short pass around the yard without saying anything etc. Came back and she came over again, still very excited so I made another pass. By this she seemed mildly interested in what I was doing and a bit confused. I walked to where I was before and she hung out under a large table we have outside, she just stood there, looking at me wagging her tail sort of like "What are you doing?" I called her over. Had her sit, down, both which she did perfectly and stared at me waiting patiently for the next command. I put her sweater on without a hitch. I then made a fire and she was very antsy, whining and wanting to be right on me, I think trying to see if I would forgive her for earlier. I am not sure how realistic this is, but its the impression she gave me. Its going to be harder for my husband and I to become consistent and uniform in the way we act with her, because it has been so different. He and I have been the extremes, with me being the assertive one and him being the play mate.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if we can manage to get to the place where he and I are both uniform in our NILIF tactics, then her behavior issues and insecurity should be gone?
I fed her, with the bowl in my lap, hand feeding her, after she sat and waited for me to say it was okay. She did well. Then my husband came out and we talked a bit near the fire. Then he went in and I was headed in. Athena was just over by the patio looking at me. I called her over. Made her sit and wait and then she was allowed to come in.
I wanted to just tell everyone here that I am sorry if it has been insane. The last thing we wanted to do was barge in and create chaos today. So I'm sorry about that, but if it makes it any better, you guys were the first place we thought of. ANYWAYS. I'll read up some more. Thanks a lot all, and to the people who now severely dislike my husband and I, sorry. We are still learning though, try and keep that in mind. Thanks.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if we can manage to get to the place where he and I are both uniform in our NILIF tactics, then her behavior issues and insecurity should be gone?
I fed her, with the bowl in my lap, hand feeding her, after she sat and waited for me to say it was okay. She did well. Then my husband came out and we talked a bit near the fire. Then he went in and I was headed in. Athena was just over by the patio looking at me. I called her over. Made her sit and wait and then she was allowed to come in.
I wanted to just tell everyone here that I am sorry if it has been insane. The last thing we wanted to do was barge in and create chaos today. So I'm sorry about that, but if it makes it any better, you guys were the first place we thought of. ANYWAYS. I'll read up some more. Thanks a lot all, and to the people who now severely dislike my husband and I, sorry. We are still learning though, try and keep that in mind. Thanks.
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Maybe the real question is: Does "why" really matter in this particular case?
The OP responded, in part, to your original question with this:
^^^ THIS is a potentially deadly situation for that cat. The dog is an APBT ... a very powerful breed, and the dog has shown this tendency toward the cat in more than one instance according to the OP and his wife's posts to this thread. That dog could easily kill that cat in a split-second, possibly along with the dog's owners getting hurt if they are present and attempt to stop the dog from attacking the cat with what the owner calls sudden "rage". In this particular case it's just not worth taking any chances.
Exactly "why" it happens doesn't really matter ... except as a curiousity. Can't get into the dog's head so "why" likely can't ever be answered. But even if it could, it all boils down to whether or not they want to take the chance of the cat ending up dead and themselves ending up injured. Appreciate the "why" ... I like "why" questions too.
But in this particular case I believe focusing on "why" will only lead to someone taking more chances. As the dog in question has also begun to show aggression toward humans, it's especially not wise to take any more chances ... even though the dog sometimes seems OK with the cat.
The OP responded, in part, to your original question with this:
^^^ THIS is a potentially deadly situation for that cat. The dog is an APBT ... a very powerful breed, and the dog has shown this tendency toward the cat in more than one instance according to the OP and his wife's posts to this thread. That dog could easily kill that cat in a split-second, possibly along with the dog's owners getting hurt if they are present and attempt to stop the dog from attacking the cat with what the owner calls sudden "rage". In this particular case it's just not worth taking any chances.
Exactly "why" it happens doesn't really matter ... except as a curiousity. Can't get into the dog's head so "why" likely can't ever be answered. But even if it could, it all boils down to whether or not they want to take the chance of the cat ending up dead and themselves ending up injured. Appreciate the "why" ... I like "why" questions too.
But in this particular case I believe focusing on "why" will only lead to someone taking more chances. As the dog in question has also begun to show aggression toward humans, it's especially not wise to take any more chances ... even though the dog sometimes seems OK with the cat.
I hear you there. I am through trying to understand why it is the way it is. What we need to be doing is focusing on how to fix it. The cat can (hopefully) be with my brother (who initially owned the dog) and his wife. They had her for a while until my brother decided to join the military, thus dumping more of his unwanted animals onto us.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
I wanted to just tell everyone here that I am sorry if it has been insane. The last thing we wanted to do was barge in and create chaos today. So I'm sorry about that, but if it makes it any better, you guys were the first place we thought of. ANYWAYS. I'll read up some more. Thanks a lot all, and to the people who now severely dislike my husband and I, sorry. We are still learning though, try and keep that in mind. Thanks.
For the most part, each of them have the very best intentions even if they don't voice them the best (as in your husbands case, LOL)
There isn't a member here that I can think of at the moment who HASN'T taken heat and had a few scuffles along the way........myself included. You can let your hubby know that he is very welcome to stay and post right along with you. People won't always agree with him, but that's ok because HE won't always agree with them either
I hope you found some things to help your situation, or at least get you on the right track
Keep them separated! This is not something you can "fix." You cannot take away a dog's prey drive nor it's hunting instinct. You can manage these behaviors (kenneling, keeping the animals separated, walking your dog on a least, etc.), but you cannot eliminate them.
Animals don't rationalize the way we do. They don't necessarily think things through. They live in the "here and now" and not the "what might happen in the future if I do this now".
As for food aggression/resource guarding, I spent 6 years of training on a dog with this issue. In the beginning, I was doing it wrong. For example, I had been taught that if the dog growls at you over the food, you immediately pick the food bowl up. And without using my own brain, I foolishly followed this advice. But when the behavior got worse vs. better, it was brought to my attention that a growl is a warning NOT to touch the food, yet I was touching it anyways. And we all know what comes after a growl when a growl doesn't work.......a bite. So I changed tactics and methods and in the end, it became an issue of feed the dog only in his kennel and kennel him if someone is cooking in the kitche (yes, he'd guard whatever you had on the stove and would growl at anyone enterign the kitchen) and pray that you don't notice he found a stale potato chip under the couch and bend down to pet him at the same time. In my dog's case, I lost any trust in him I had when it came down to food. As he was a 1-person dog, MY dog, it made things all that much worse. In the end, I had to make the toughest decision to euthanize him and let him go. I knew in my head and in my heart what would happen if my then-infant son unknowingly got too close to him when Wrigley had something of value (food, toy, whatever he decided to claim that day) and no matter how much I loved that dog, NO ONE deserved to get bitten by him. And he had already tried to bite me once over a bone. He didn't make contact, but only because I moved out the way.
So I understand about food aggression and I understand that sometimes it cannot be fixed. In my dog's case, it was rooted in his temperament. It was not a learned behavior, it was the product of a cross-breeding gone wrong that resulted in him just having a faulty temeperament in that regard. So before anyone was to ever be seriously injured by a powerful 100-lb dog, I let him go with dignity and respect.
If you have any specific questions, I'd be more than happy to discuss them. Just remember that guarding is a very serious issue and a very tricky one to try and correct. And I'll be honest in that I don't believe dogs should be given chance after chance after chance when it comes to biting or nipping someone.
Animals don't rationalize the way we do. They don't necessarily think things through. They live in the "here and now" and not the "what might happen in the future if I do this now".
As for food aggression/resource guarding, I spent 6 years of training on a dog with this issue. In the beginning, I was doing it wrong. For example, I had been taught that if the dog growls at you over the food, you immediately pick the food bowl up. And without using my own brain, I foolishly followed this advice. But when the behavior got worse vs. better, it was brought to my attention that a growl is a warning NOT to touch the food, yet I was touching it anyways. And we all know what comes after a growl when a growl doesn't work.......a bite. So I changed tactics and methods and in the end, it became an issue of feed the dog only in his kennel and kennel him if someone is cooking in the kitche (yes, he'd guard whatever you had on the stove and would growl at anyone enterign the kitchen) and pray that you don't notice he found a stale potato chip under the couch and bend down to pet him at the same time. In my dog's case, I lost any trust in him I had when it came down to food. As he was a 1-person dog, MY dog, it made things all that much worse. In the end, I had to make the toughest decision to euthanize him and let him go. I knew in my head and in my heart what would happen if my then-infant son unknowingly got too close to him when Wrigley had something of value (food, toy, whatever he decided to claim that day) and no matter how much I loved that dog, NO ONE deserved to get bitten by him. And he had already tried to bite me once over a bone. He didn't make contact, but only because I moved out the way.
So I understand about food aggression and I understand that sometimes it cannot be fixed. In my dog's case, it was rooted in his temperament. It was not a learned behavior, it was the product of a cross-breeding gone wrong that resulted in him just having a faulty temeperament in that regard. So before anyone was to ever be seriously injured by a powerful 100-lb dog, I let him go with dignity and respect.
If you have any specific questions, I'd be more than happy to discuss them. Just remember that guarding is a very serious issue and a very tricky one to try and correct. And I'll be honest in that I don't believe dogs should be given chance after chance after chance when it comes to biting or nipping someone.
Just wanted to say *hugs* to both of you. It sounds like you have a lot of really stressful things going on even without the dog issues. No doubt she's picking up on it too.
There has been a boatload of great advice given in this thread. I wanted to share about someone on the borzoi list who's dog lived with their cat peacefully for 11 years. They were best buddies, snuggled together, ate from the same bowl, etc. One day she came home, and the dog had killed the cat. Any dog with prey drive can have their prey drive triggered, and when they get in that mode it's like their brain falls out and they don't even recognize the animal that they were friends with before. Strider loves our cat. They wrestle and play, they're really loving together but I never leave them alone together because I don't want to risk her safety.
I'm just curious though, it almost sounds like your dog is resource guarding against your cat. It's impossible to know really, but that's kind of the feeling I got from reading what was written.
There has been a boatload of great advice given in this thread. I wanted to share about someone on the borzoi list who's dog lived with their cat peacefully for 11 years. They were best buddies, snuggled together, ate from the same bowl, etc. One day she came home, and the dog had killed the cat. Any dog with prey drive can have their prey drive triggered, and when they get in that mode it's like their brain falls out and they don't even recognize the animal that they were friends with before. Strider loves our cat. They wrestle and play, they're really loving together but I never leave them alone together because I don't want to risk her safety.
I'm just curious though, it almost sounds like your dog is resource guarding against your cat. It's impossible to know really, but that's kind of the feeling I got from reading what was written.
Thank You Miakoda. I agree with you 100%. The Cat and the Dog have been completely separated as of this morning. We have already assessed as well that we are going to have to get our own place to live when we move, which makes my family a little sad, but compared to the heart ache we would have otherwise, is minor. Its just even worse because we HAVE to get a house now. A lot of town houses and apartments wont take dogs over a certain pound and especially because she is a pit bull, they become even more leery. Athena is UNDENIABLY a pit bull. Too tall/deep chested to be a staffy.
I have spent the majority of the day battling between having her put down or keeping her. I can't be the only person to make that decision though. My husband NEEDS to be a part of it. We have spent the a good time talking, and have decided to give her this last chance. But that means he and I NEED to work together.
Does that sound fair to you guys? I mean, coming from all thats been passed today? She seems to be responding extremely well to the NILIF so far today. It could just be her wanting to please me after today, but thats fine. I am going to take her behaviour so far today with the NILIF and run with it.
Thats the same feeling I always got, Romy. She has been looking around for the cat, I am not sure how to respond to this, so I have been ignoring it. \
She is a scavenger in the kitchen as well, and I don't want that to become a future issue. She is almost an impulsive floor licker! I have just been calling her out of the kitchen back into the living room. Are there any other ways that you guys could suggest to help this? Just wondering.
Thanks again all. I always end up falling over myself in thanks to you guys, but you ALL deserve it. :hail:
EDIT: oh yay I'm a puppy dog now! n_n
Too tall/deep chested to be a staffy. I have spent the majority of the day battling between having her put down or keeping her. I can't be the only person to make that decision though. My husband NEEDS to be a part of it. We have spent the a good time talking, and have decided to give her this last chance. But that means he and I NEED to work together.
Does that sound fair to you guys? I mean, coming from all thats been passed today? She seems to be responding extremely well to the NILIF so far today. It could just be her wanting to please me after today, but thats fine. I am going to take her behaviour so far today with the NILIF and run with it.
Thats the same feeling I always got, Romy. She has been looking around for the cat, I am not sure how to respond to this, so I have been ignoring it. \
She is a scavenger in the kitchen as well, and I don't want that to become a future issue. She is almost an impulsive floor licker! I have just been calling her out of the kitchen back into the living room. Are there any other ways that you guys could suggest to help this? Just wondering.
Thanks again all. I always end up falling over myself in thanks to you guys, but you ALL deserve it. :hail:
EDIT: oh yay I'm a puppy dog now! n_n
When Tallulah is at my parents' house, she looks for the cats too. We ignore it, then distract her.
She's also an accomplished counter-surfer - and has managed to scavenge from the TOP OF THE REFRIGERATOR! I don't know how, and I'm not sure I even want to . . .
It sounds like you are making an excellent start on working on Athena's problems constructively. It will take time, and consistency, and you'll have setbacks from time to time. When that happens, go back to some training behavior that you know she will succeed at, reinforce that, and move forward again
She's also an accomplished counter-surfer - and has managed to scavenge from the TOP OF THE REFRIGERATOR! I don't know how, and I'm not sure I even want to . . .
It sounds like you are making an excellent start on working on Athena's problems constructively. It will take time, and consistency, and you'll have setbacks from time to time. When that happens, go back to some training behavior that you know she will succeed at, reinforce that, and move forward again
S
I just dont understand why the cat is being allowed near the dog when the dog has shown this "rage" towards this cat? It would take seconds for this dog to tear this cat to pieces. Even crating and separating makes me nervous. I know how quick cats are. I know how they can run right between your legs when you open a door. You have to make sure that accidents like that dont happen, for the life of your cat. A would suggest a crate for the cat as well.
Mia knows a hell of a lot more than me about the APBT breed. I am still very new to this breed. My male is only 20 months old. The biggest thing I realized getting into this breed is that APBTs have drive that is absolutely mind boggling.
Any time I read that an owner rolls a dog, it makes me shiver and squirm. I wouldn't do that to any dog unless I wanted to get bit.
I think its great that the OP came here for advice. Some owners would just up and get rid of the dog... giving up. Excellent advice has been given here as expected! I love Victorial Stillwell as well, her show is superb. I dont think Cesar knows his a$$ from a hole in the ground.
Mia knows a hell of a lot more than me about the APBT breed. I am still very new to this breed. My male is only 20 months old. The biggest thing I realized getting into this breed is that APBTs have drive that is absolutely mind boggling.
Any time I read that an owner rolls a dog, it makes me shiver and squirm. I wouldn't do that to any dog unless I wanted to get bit.
I think its great that the OP came here for advice. Some owners would just up and get rid of the dog... giving up. Excellent advice has been given here as expected! I love Victorial Stillwell as well, her show is superb. I dont think Cesar knows his a$$ from a hole in the ground.
