We need to do something, now

[yilduz]

I posted a while back here about my pit bull, Athena. I don't know if anyone remembers, but she was starting to show resource guarding traits. We started feeding her outside and most of the other animals left the house so the problems pretty much stopped. Recently, though, she's been going after the one cat we have left. We've been able to tell when it's going to happen because she tenses up and lowers her head before she does anything else. Then she explodes toward the cat, growling and trying to rip her apart. We've been able to stop her before she got to the cat every time. The biggest problem is that it's no longer during feeding time, it just happens when it happens. Sometimes they're fine together, but sometimes the dog just goes nuts.

We've been reading and watching shows, trying to figure out how to solve the problem and we've been making a lot of progress, but today she took a huge step back. The cat came down the stairs and the dog saw her, got stiff and lowered her head. I grabbed her before she could do anything, but that set her off and she tried to get to the cat. The cat ran off and I had the dog on the ground, but she kept growling. My wife came to try to help but that made the dog more angry and tried to bite her. She kept snarling and growling in a way I've never seen her before. I tried to get her to her box, but she refused to stand and it was hard to get her to move because she wanted to bite. I ended up pretty much dragging her to her box and throwing her in.

We can't deal with this. We're getting ready to move across the country, find new jobs, try to build ourselves up again, and there is way too much stress to be dealing with a dog like this. It wouldn't be too bad, and we would keep her, but we obviously don't know how to handle these kind of situations because they keep happening, and we can't afford to hire someone to help. I don't want her put down, so I want to find some sort of pit bull rescue or something. I want to find a place that will take her, won't put her down, and fix her of this problem. She is a really good dog, and happy most of the time. She loves to play, loves attention and listens to many commands, but she just has this problem that we can't solve. Perhaps she can be a good dog for another family after she is better, but unfortunately it doesn't look like we can keep her.

I don't know how to go about finding things like this. Please help me.

I don't want to give her up, but I think it's best for everyone.

 

[dr2little]

I posted a while back here about my pit bull, Athena. I don't know if anyone remembers, but she was starting to show resource guarding traits. We started feeding her outside and most of the other animals left the house so the problems pretty much stopped. Recently, though, she's been going after the one cat we have left. We've been able to tell when it's going to happen because she tenses up and lowers her head before she does anything else. Then she explodes toward the cat, growling and trying to rip her apart. We've been able to stop her before she got to the cat every time. The biggest problem is that it's no longer during feeding time, it just happens when it happens. Sometimes they're fine together, but sometimes the dog just goes nuts.

We've been reading and watching shows, trying to figure out how to solve the problem and we've been making a lot of progress, but today she took a huge step back. The cat came down the stairs and the dog saw her, got stiff and lowered her head. I grabbed her before she could do anything, but that set her off and she tried to get to the cat. The cat ran off and I had the dog on the ground, but she kept growling. My wife came to try to help but that made the dog more angry and tried to bite her. She kept snarling and growling in a way I've never seen her before. I tried to get her to her box, but she refused to stand and it was hard to get her to move because she wanted to bite. I ended up pretty much dragging her to her box and throwing her in.

We can't deal with this. We're getting ready to move across the country, find new jobs, try to build ourselves up again, and there is way too much stress to be dealing with a dog like this. It wouldn't be too bad, and we would keep her, but we obviously don't know how to handle these kind of situations because they keep happening, and we can't afford to hire someone to help. I don't want her put down, so I want to find some sort of pit bull rescue or something. I want to find a place that will take her, won't put her down, and fix her of this problem. She is a really good dog, and happy most of the time. She loves to play, loves attention and listens to many commands, but she just has this problem that we can't solve. Perhaps she can be a good dog for another family after she is better, but unfortunately it doesn't look like we can keep her.

I don't know how to go about finding things like this. Please help me.

I don't want to give her up, but I think it's best for everyone.

What exactly have you read and watched to help you with training and what techniques have you used?

 

[yilduz]

I've read a lot of threads in this forum, and a couple of other sites, but don't remember which ones. The shows we were watching is that dog whisperer and that annoying lady that came to America from some other place. I can't stand her and couldn't watch that for long.

We've been feeding her outside, making her work for her food (sit, down, etc), feeding her away from other animals, and simply trying to make her more obedient. We've basically been trying to get her to the point that she sees us as dominant by forcing her down, keeping her in her place, making her earn everything, etc.

 

[FoxyWench]

the dog whisperer and his famous alpha rolling technique is at it again.

ill say this!
rolling her/pushing her down to show her whos boss is very likely not remotly even HELPING in this situation.

cesar milans tenchinques are very controversial mostly because regular people see him at work, think "i can do that" and repeat at home with absolutly no clue of what there doing...rememer a tv sho shows only 5 minutes of the 5 hours of actual training that is going on off camera.

infact that "woman you cant stand" (victoria stidwell form the uk, has MUCH better training techniques for the general public to make use of and the actual show does a much better job of showing you what goes into it instead of just "well you need ot show him whos the top dog"

as a side note.
ive yet to find a rescue that will take and place an unstable dog...there are so many pits in rescue that some rescues simply cant afford to put in the time to essentially reprogam a dog with agressive tendencies.

 

[Miakoda]

Food aggression is a serious issue. In some rare occasions it can be fixed, in most occasions it can be managed, in some more rare occasions it is best for the dog to be euthanized before someone gets seriously hurt.

However, if you believe that your dog is unstable because it doesn't like your cat, I'm at a loss for words. I'm not sure when people started believing that dogs and cats living together in harmony is the norm, but if that were the case, then all those old stories and movies and cartoon strips depicting dogs and cats as "enemies" must all be long-standing fiction. Many times dogs and cats don't get along. Period. And so what? Would you get pissed off if your cat didn't play nicely with your hamster?

The solution with the cat and dog is to keep them separated at all times using walls and closed doors! If you are not willing to do this, then rehome the dog to someone who is educated and has common sense.

Hell, I have dogs that killed a neighbor's cat (stupid thing was always in MY fenced backyard). Not too long ago, another cat had kittens in the back corner of my yard. Big mistake there...not going into detail. Now, are my dogs horrid, vicious, bloodthirsty killers? NO. They are dogs. Period. They also chase and kill squirrels, opposum, racoons, and hogs.

 

[yilduz]

Food aggression is a serious issue. In some rare occasions it can be fixed, in most occasions it can be managed, in some more rare occasions it is best for the dog to be euthanized before someone gets seriously hurt.

However, if you believe that your dog is unstable because it doesn't like your cat, I'm at a loss for words. I'm not sure when people started believing that dogs and cats living together in harmony is the norm, but if that were the case, then all those old stories and movies and cartoon strips depicting dogs and cats as "enemies" must all be long-standing fiction. Many times dogs and cats don't get along. Period. And so what? Would you get pissed off if your cat didn't play nicely with your hamster?

The solution with the cat and dog is to keep them separated at all times using walls and closed doors! If you are not willing to do this, then rehome the dog to someone who is educated and has common sense.

Hell, I have dogs that killed a neighbor's cat (stupid thing was always in MY fenced backyard). Not too long ago, another cat had kittens in the back corner of my yard. Big mistake there...not going into detail. Now, are my dogs horrid, vicious, bloodthirsty killers? NO. They are dogs. Period. They also chase and kill squirrels, opposum, racoons, and hogs.

**** you, you piece of ****.

I can understand how dogs don't like cats, normally, yeah - that's how it is in nature, but this dog has lived the past four years with cats and never had any problems before. The sudden aggression mixed with the fact that SHE TRIED TO BITE MY WIFE is the reason I'm doing this.

--

So I'm not supposed to roll my dog over, okay. Fine, I suck at training my dog. I've stated that I'm beyond that point. I need to find someone that can do it better than I can, that's what the point of this thread is. I don't have time or money to retrain her - as I've stated before.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

What a brilliant response from the OP.

What I wonder is why people select breeds such as APBTs, who have been selectively bred for many years to be game, and then wonder why they don't get along with kitty cats, or other dogs.

 

[yilduz]

What a brilliant response from the OP.

What I wonder is why people select breeds such as APBTs, who have been selectively bred for many years to be game, and then wonder why they don't get along with kitty cats, or other dogs.

We've had them in the past and none have ever acted this way. They were bred to be people pleasers. i've seen videos of dog fights and it seems most often they wouldn't even be fighting if the people weren't pushing them into it so much.

Besides, I didn't select it. She was dropped into my lap by my irresponsibly brother-in-law.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

And this explains your spouting profanity towards Miakoda?

 

[Renee750il]

I find that there seems to be a great deal of correlation between an owner's attitude and ability to coexist and function socially and their dogs'. There are so many variables that affect us - and therefore our dogs.

You're in a state of flux. Your dog feels that. An insecure dog is an unpredictable dog. This isn't, it doesn't seem, like a problem that's solved by throwing money at it - it's something that could well be handled by first calming yourself and ditching any anger and fear in your life, then by reassuring your dog and rebuilding her confidence through simple things that she isn't going to fail at.

Would I ever trust her alone with the cat again? Oh, HELL no. I trust my Shepherd and my Fila with my mother's cats, but my little APBT? No freaking way. They are just too skittery and prey-like for me to put her into a situation where she stands a big chance of failure.

Go back and examine what changes were happening when these behaviors started to change. You'll find a lot of your answers there.

 

[yilduz]

And this explains your spouting profanity towards Miakoda?

He insulted me and just simply acted like a prick. **** Miakoda.

I find that there seems to be a great deal of correlation between an owner's attitude and ability to coexist and function socially and their dogs'. There are so many variables that affect us - and therefore our dogs.

You're in a state of flux. Your dog feels that. An insecure dog is an unpredictable dog. This isn't, it doesn't seem, like a problem that's solved by throwing money at it - it's something that could well be handled by first calming yourself and ditching any anger and fear in your life, then by reassuring your dog and rebuilding her confidence through simple things that she isn't going to fail at.

Would I ever trust her alone with the cat again? Oh, HELL no. I trust my Shepherd and my Fila with my mother's cats, but my little APBT? No freaking way. They are just too skittery and prey-like for me to put her into a situation where she stands a big chance of failure.

Go back and examine what changes were happening when these behaviors started to change. You'll find a lot of your answers there.

I can understand that. There have been a lot of changes during recent months - including the death of our other pit bull, and several people leaving her life. I think maybe she doesn't know her place and is having a hard time figuring out what it is, but I can't have her attacking all other animals she comes in contact with and now trying to bite people.

 

[corgi_love]

He insulted me and just simply acted like a prick. **** Miakoda.

Why come on here looking for advice, and then use profanity at the people giving it? That's beyond rude and Miakoda had some GOOD advice.

I agree with Renee, maybe toss a little anger management in there too :yikes:

 

[Backward_Cinderella]

Honestly, after reading the OP's posts, I think the dog would be better off in a normal home. He doesn't seem willing to retrain (thus the constant reiteration of "I don't have time" etc"
Yil if you live in AZ, I know of a rescue that I used to work for that IS willing to take the time to work with animals that have problems like you think Athena does. If not, I can't help.

 

[Renee750il]

Dogs are going to hunt - that's their nature unless they are a breed that's had all of that bred out of it. Most are pretty good at differentiating between animals they are required to tolerate and varmints, but sometimes lines get crossed and if you don't want to have to deal with that - and there's nothing wrong with not having the stomach for it - then it's a good idea to stick to the tamer breeds.

What you've described as far as biting your wife sounds more like a dog in prey overdrive, over-excited and wanting to get on with the hunt. If your APBT had wanted to bite your wife, your wife would be bitten. I'd bet, in retrospect, your wife will recall that if your dog made tooth contact with her, as soon as there was pressure the dog's jaws recoiled from biting down.

I've dealt with my young APBT when she's been seriously excited like that. The handiest thing I've found to deal with it is as soon as Tallulah starts to get too worked up, I tell her to go get her toy. It flips a switch in that Terrier noggin of hers, she shakes her head like she's clearing it, then starts to frantically go search for her toy. We've done it enough that now she knows she can calm down by going and getting one of her toys and I rarely even have to tell her anymore - she does it on her own.

Oh, and Miakoda's a she, and has more insight and knowledge about dealing with APBTs than just about anyone I know. She loves this breed and has been subjected, first hand, to the worst possible tragedy that can befall someone who loves a dog - all because her dog was an APBT. She wasn't being a prick. Not even remotely. She's passionate about her breed.

 

[yilduz]

Dogs are going to hunt - that's their nature unless they are a breed that's had all of that bred out of it. Most are pretty good at differentiating between animals they are required to tolerate and varmints, but sometimes lines get crossed and if you don't want to have to deal with that - and there's nothing wrong with not having the stomach for it - then it's a good idea to stick to the tamer breeds.

What you've described as far as biting your wife sounds more like a dog in prey overdrive, over-excited and wanting to get on with the hunt. If your APBT had wanted to bite your wife, your wife would be bitten. I'd bet, in retrospect, your wife will recall that if your dog made tooth contact with her, as soon as there was pressure the dog's jaws recoiled from biting down.

I've dealt with my young APBT when she's been seriously excited like that. The handiest thing I've found to deal with it is as soon as Tallulah starts to get too worked up, I tell her to go get her toy. It flips a switch in that Terrier noggin of hers, she shakes her head like she's clearing it, then starts to frantically go search for her toy. We've done it enough that now she knows she can calm down by going and getting one of her toys and I rarely even have to tell her anymore - she does it on her own.

Oh, and Miakoda's a she, and has more insight and knowledge about dealing with APBTs than just about anyone I know. She loves this breed and has been subjected, first hand, to the worst possible tragedy that can befall someone who loves a dog - all because her dog was an APBT. She wasn't being a prick. Not even remotely. She's passionate about her breed.

That actually sounds like sound advice, something we may give a try. Thank you.

As far as Miakoda goes, she (sorry) could have done a much better job getting the point across than insulting me.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

And you did not insult her?

I am finished reading your posts.

 

[yilduz]

And you did not insult her?

In response to her post...

I am finished reading your posts.

good, go away.

 

[jess2416]

In response to her post...


good, go away.

Why dont you go away and go be an ass somewhere else...instead of crying and bitching when GOOD people like Mia and everyone else that has tried to give you some input on your problem and then you show your ass and curse at them.. what a asshat..

*gives myself a mod slap*

*goes to my corner*

 

[ACooper]

There is a "no personal attack" policy here on Chazhound, I ask you to please stick to the forum rules. http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38569

You do not have to like or agree with advice given, you are free to disagree openly in words that are respectful to ALL members.

No more personal attacks or open hostility. It accomplishes nothing, and you are obviously here to find a solution for your dog/family.

 

[Miakoda]

My post was not an insult.

But I'm just tired of people owning dogs they no absolutely nothing about, and then turning and claiming it's vicious because it did nothing more than act like a DOG.

I own APBTs. I love APBTs. I live for APBTs. But I also prefer to have a deep understand on canines in general in addition to breed specific knowledge.

APBTs are almost always dog aggressive. It's genetic. It lies within them. You cannot train it out anymore than you can train the herding instinct out of a Border Collie.

But we are talking about cats and I guess I just went out on a limb and believed that most dogs and cats aren't born into this world loving each other. What a stretch...........

Anyways, I offer the solution to the cat issue: keep them separated. Because if you don't, then one day you're going to come home to a dead cat, and then you're going to turn your "pit bull" over to AC claiming it's vicious and mauled your kitty to death, and then more people are going to chose the path of ignorance and hatred towards these dogs.

Being completely honest here, if I wasn't an APBT owner and did not know much about the "pit bull" breeds other than what the media portrays them to be, then I would have said your post just confirmed those beliefs. And I'm wondering if you don't believe it as well.

As for the resource guarding/food aggression, I would love to offer advice, however other than stating the dog is a guarder, you gave no real specifics about the problem.