Walking Your Dog Off-Leash - Question.

[Mcpie]

A bit of both, I think. You only have to take a glance at the owner to realise their motivations. Either they are totally clueless and ignorant, lulled into believing that their dog is "well behaved", or they are desperate to show how well trained and obedient their dog is to the rest of the world.

Such generalizations are really unnecessary and are, at best, provoking. I am more careful with my current dog who has much more of an attraction towards motion, but my last dog, once I felt comfortable with him, was rarely leashed. Fact of the matter was, as a unusually large Rottweiler, if he had really wanted to go somewhere and was not properly trained, I wouldn't have been able to hold him anyway. Now of course, if I was walking in a very busy area (and I lived in the Beaches area of Toronto at the time), I would leash him for the sake of others, but he was always by my side when we were walking.

In short, I saw no reason to leash him, so I didn't. It had nothing to do with vanity, nor was my belief in his training naive.

 

[Chewbecca]

Look, I'm going to say something and it's probably all I'm going to say on this whole "I walk my dog off leash" matter.

I hope those of you who walk your dogs off leash 200% and KNOW that your dog will stay next to you or come to you whenever you call.
I hope you KNOW THIS.

Because my dog is NOT the only dog aggressive dog out there. You may be with your dog when it's walking and you may cross paths with someone walking their dog aggressive dog on leash and that dog aggressive dog is sending your dog ALL KINDS of huge "f-you" signals.
Are you 200% positive that your dog will ignore a dog like mine??? Are you 200% positive that your dog would stay next to your side and not wander towards my dog in curiosity or take her up on any of her "Let's BATTLE!" offers?


Because if you cannot be 200% certain that your dog will stay away from a dog like mine, then you're endangering your dog's life anytime you walk him/her off leash.

 

[Mcpie]

You may be with your dog when it's walking and you may cross paths with someone walking their dog aggressive dog on leash and that dog aggressive dog is sending your dog ALL KINDS of huge "f-you" signals.

Actually I should have added that when passing certain things, such as another dog, people who seemed apprehensive etc, I'd often put my hand on his collar/hold it. As I said though, if he were ever to snap as it were, I wouldn't have been able to hold him. One could argue that I should have then permanently had him on something that would make it possible, but I really didn't feel it necessary and there are certain dogs, at certain sizes (particularly given my level of strength at the time), where if they're not well trained, having them on a leash itself will do little.

I'm presuming you don't walk right next to another dog on a sidewalk or something with a dog aggressive dog anyway, and yes, I could say unequivocally that my last dog would have stayed by my side. My current one, not yet, and perhaps never.

 

[Paige]

I don't walk my dogs.... we go biking! They are out infront of the bike hooked up to it like a sled. They aren't off leash in areas with cars. I just... don't like that idea at all.

 

[Paige]

Look, I'm going to say something and it's probably all I'm going to say on this whole "I walk my dog off leash" matter.

I hope those of you who walk your dogs off leash 200% and KNOW that your dog will stay next to you or come to you whenever you call.
I hope you KNOW THIS.

Because my dog is NOT the only dog aggressive dog out there. You may be with your dog when it's walking and you may cross paths with someone walking their dog aggressive dog on leash and that dog aggressive dog is sending your dog ALL KINDS of huge "f-you" signals.
Are you 200% positive that your dog will ignore a dog like mine??? Are you 200% positive that your dog would stay next to your side and not wander towards my dog in curiosity or take her up on any of her "Let's BATTLE!" offers?


Because if you cannot be 200% certain that your dog will stay away from a dog like mine, then you're endangering your dog's life anytime you walk him/her off leash.

Amen to that. Bandit got in a scuffle the other day. I know dog body language well. Bandit wasn't doing a thing. He was ignoring the dog, as was Spanky (which is not common for Spanky to do, he always wants to play). This guys German Shepard was off leash, came up to Bandit and bit him. Bandit was trying so hard to get away from him but the dog had him in a death grip. The owner was mortified. I landed up having to shove the dog off Bandit and pick my dog up. I shrugged it off. My dog was fine but god do I ever hope that man leashes his dog from now on. What happened if his dog had caused damage? Or bit someone's dog and the owner freak out and press charges?

 

[Baxter'smybaby]

never off leash for Baxter unless it's an enclosed area. His hound nose would win over recall every time!
Traveler I walk off leash in our neighbohood--she is highly reliable, won't even sniff the ground without looking for an "ok"--and yes, I am positive she would not take up a challenge from another dog. We have been there--done that, she has no interest and is very obedient. Still, if we were walking near a busy road--I would leash her, because I don't trust all the crazy driver's out there!

 

[smkie]

I had a long ol post but i don't know where it went...so i will try to shorten it greatly.
Off leash heel is a dog totally under control. It takes daily hard core practice to achieve this point and it isn't for amateurs. I will train every dog to this point because i am a trainer. I grew up being trained by one of the best. A dog that is trained to this ability is one hundred percent and i will settle for nothing less. I have a conduct standard that i expect 24/7. IF you are not someone that has had a huge amount of training to be a handler, then you have no business unhooking that leash. I feel it is an honor and an promise i make to my dog. WE (everyone i have had) have a realtionship that is like a partnership. YOu cant run a dog in the open all age in field trials with a leash. He must heel to line, he must be steady when teh guns go off, he must slam his hinny in the ground even if he thinks he has the bird and look to his handler for what is to be done next. HE is to take hand signals. THey don't make the open all age a cake walk. THis is what i grew up training for. IF your dog is pulling you on the lead, if he is not one hundred thousand percent solid on leave it. If he has any dog agressions whatsover, and has no recall, you would at fault if any damage came to anyone envolved.

 

[ihartgonzo]

I understand that the ability to walk your dog off-leash, in a heel, takes a LOT of work and is a big accomplishment. Bravo! But, WHY, is it a necessity to actually do it? WHY not have the extra safety of a leash? You don't have to be gripping the leash tightly and jerking your dog around. There IS such a thing as a loose leash. You know that your dog can do it, but why do you feel it a necessity to implement it? With hazards everywhere? Why not stick to doing actual off-leash work where it's safe? It seems like, if you've spent that much time working with your dog, you would be pretty concerned with preserving their life.

I think that part of understanding dogs is understanding that they are animals, with a much lower level of consciousness than you & me. They don't think about a car hitting them when they bolt across the street to chase a cat, all they think about is cat... chase! I think it's just plain reckless, and just plain ignorant, and arrogant, to expect your dog to listen to you literally 100% of the time. Not everything is within your control, no matter the hours you've spent training. Dogs still have instincts.

I also agree completely with Chewbecca. Gonzo has broken a perfect heel many times, when we were passing a dog that was going ballistic. That doesn't make him a bad dog. He just wanted to see what the other dog was freaking out about, and to expect him to not even consider doing such a thing, is expecting way too much from a dog.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Times change. I hate it when people bring up stories of how it used to be and compare it to the present. Leashes are NECESSARY in the modern world. As nice as it would be to never use a leash and let our dogs prance around willy-nilly, it is not reality. There are roads, cars, an endless number of distractions and other people to consider.

Ahhh, no surprise here. The point went completely over your head and you just continued to pound out the same tired rhetoric.

The point I was making was about TRAINING - which has, I agree, changed in the past 30 years or so and not necessarily for the better. In those "old" days, the dogs running alongside the kids on bikes stayed right with them. The dogs waited outside a store, laying on the sidewalk with tongues hanging out as their kids bought stuff and wandered back outside. The dogs were well exercised, had a thorough bond with their people, were reliable with other dogs because they grew up interacting with all the dogs in the neighborhood, and I'm pretty darn sure a lot of them were much happier than so many of the confined dogs we see nowadays. You rarely heard of dogs with anxiety or lick granulomas or nervous habits back then. They were allowed to be dogs and not expected to be little people - and their owners developed a relationship with them that allowed the dogs more freedom.

I kind of feel sorry for people - and even more sorry for the dogs - that are unable or unwilling to build the bond and training to the point where they have a reliable off-leash dog. I think it's sad that there are people out there walking their aggressive dogs (lunging and growling at other dogs and sometimes people) in public. I think it's sad that there are so MANY poorly behaved dogs! I don't have any problems walking my shepherd past someone with an aggressive dog except that it makes me worried that their nasty animal will get away from them and attack my off-leash but very well-mannered girl.

Gonzo has broken a perfect heel many times, when we were passing a dog that was going ballistic. That doesn't make him a bad dog. He just wanted to see what the other dog was freaking out about, and to expect him to not even consider doing such a thing, is expecting way too much from a dog.

If he broke it, then it was not even close to a "perfect heel" .. sorry, but that goes right back to a training issue. Your inabilities to train your dog properly should not inhibit what I choose to do with my dogs. It's not arrogance (although it IS arrogance for you to try to tell ME what I should do with my well-behaved dog who CAN walk past an aggressive dog without breaking out of heel position), it's not reckless or ignorant - it's TRAINING and RELATIONSHIP. Just because YOU are incapable of getting to that level you seem to think that everyone else should have to stay with the level you manage to reach.

It's a good thing that many people aren't held back by the insecurities and inabilities of others. We'd all still be living in the caveman days. If you don't have the knowledge, intelligence, and sense to understand how to train your dog to the level that my dog is at, then I'm very glad you at least are smart enough to keep your dog on leash.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
As the slogan goes: TRAIN, don't COMPLAIN!

 

[goldiefur]

This is such a **** touchy subject for me.
I have such a usual hatred of owners of off leash dogs. I have a hard time trusting that people have 100% control of their dogs. ESPECIALLY when my dog is sending TONS of daring, nasty, dog aggressive signals in the off leash dog's direction.
Like I said in...er...crap, I cannot remember her name, but the one thread with the dog that charges people and the family refuses to leash the dog (sorry, I cannot remember who it is), anyway, I have nightmares of off leash dogs charging us. It's bad.

I agree with you. It was my dog and me that got chased down by the two supposedly controlled off leash dogs. My leashed dog is the one that would have ended up hurt. I live in a residential area and it is AGAINST THE LAW to let dogs run off leash. The people that continue to do it are just asking for trouble. Now if you are in a big field or in the woods far away from people I really don't have a problem because if your dog did try to get someone you will have a better chance of recalling them in time or running to get them. My neighbors had to haul azz to get their dogs before they got to mine. Those dogs were in lala land the dogs did not even flinch when the owners called them. They had their sights set on Brody and that was it.

 

[angelzeus]

i used to walk my shetland sheepdog of leash in a neigbhood the was populated with kids traffic as well as other dogs my dog know he had to stay by my side at all times and had to stop when i stoped i would not recommand walking a dog off leash unless you are positve the dog is going to stay with you and listen to every command that you give him because if he doesn't it could end in distaster good luck

 

[smkie]

I think that part of understanding dogs is understanding that they are animals, with a much lower level of consciousness than you & me. They don't think about a car hitting them when they bolt across the street to chase a cat, all they think about is cat... chase! I think it's just plain reckless, and just plain ignorant, and arrogant, to expect your dog to listen to you literally 100% of the time. Not everything is within your control, no matter the hours you've spent training. Dogs still have instincts.

.

that is what seperates the boys from the men..try attending a state field trial before you make such a statement. You just do not know how far an animal can be trained and sell their abilities short. A dog is capable of much more then you realize.

 

[Paige]

that is what seperates the boys from the men..try attending a state field trial before you make such a statement. You just do not know how far an animal can be trained and sell their abilities short. A dog is capable of much more then you realize.

I think this statement is very true. I also don't think it makes anyone a bad dog owner if their dog isn't up to that standard though (not saying you implied that at all). But for the most part dogs off lead are not as well trained as yours. I know mine certainly aren't. So they are leashed when we walk.

 

[smkie]

but it doesn't make u a bad dog owner if you ARE able to train your dog to this level of ability. Some of us can and some of us don't. Those that can't use your leashes please. To say a dog cannot learn to control his desires is hog wash. YOu just have to know how to teach them to look to you first. You are their leader, they are not yours.

If my front door blows upon which is does a great deal of time my dogs come tell me...mom the door is open. They know they cannot go out that door without permission. Door busting 101...they know they cannot leave the property, i border trained both. I have no fence. They are not the exceptions of the dogs i have worked with, but the rule. YOu have to demand a certain standard of conduct 24-7. I wouldn't have it any other way. I feel my dogs are safer then those that didnt' have to learn all of this in the first place. Leash or no leash, they know their place is beside me unless i SAY its time for a run about. THen they know one whistle means bring it in. THeir recall is a hundred percent as well. I work hard to achieve this with each dog i have trained. Daily, multi-daily training sessions in the puppy year. WE work as a team, if they weren't trained to this level, it wouldn't be the same.

It just chokes me when someone says that a dog CANNOT be trained to not chase a cat or a squirrel, to not act aggressively because YES they can. If i had the energy i would come prove it with your dog, but i dont so i can only prove it with my own. If a dog is NOT trained to do this, you are not finished with your obedience. If you don't want to fine, it doesn't mean your a bad person or a bad dog owner, use a leash. Just hope your door doesnt' ever blow open, or the gate be left ajar, or the leash doesn't break or you don't fall. It happens. A dog that knows to be responisible will not leave. IMO that should be the goal for the upmost safest reaction. I guarantee it is my goal.

Mary never needed a leash, that baby toddled behind me and still is at 15 and a half. Bronki knew street safetly by the time he was 5 months. I literally sat at the end of the driveway and made the hurt dog sound when a car went past. I did that because we lived on a very busy street, he had to understand that cars were danger danger. I make them sit each time a car goes by when we walk and i do not proceed until the car has passed. With or without leash. That teaches them to listen. I point out cars when we cross heavy intersections. You have to teach them this the same way you would teach a child. THey have to be a hundred percent walking loose leashed before we even think of dragging the leash. THey have to know leave it, and you have to have your eyes on everything. ONe on the dog, you have to know how to read your dog. THen you drag the leash forever.All of it comes in stages. ONly you know when your dog is a hundred percent and if he isn't that, then don't take it off!

 

[Chewbecca]

My dog is dog aggressive. If even I taught her a 100% recall, I'd NEVER trust her off leash around random neighborhood dogs. That might just be me, but it's a rule. I cannot train her dog aggression out of her.

Please come try and teach my dog NOT to act aggressively around other dogs.
I'm serious.
It's in her and I'm trying to break into her dog aggression by breaking into her ball drive and training her from there because to try to break into her dog aggression requires her to be around other dogs and right now that's too much for her. She gets physically ill when forced to be around other dogs.

 

[smkie]

I wish i could. I started when i was 12 years old working 1o dogs a day. Either obedience or retrieving. I had a trainer that one the nationals two years in a row watchign every move i made. I listened. WE had aggressive labs, we had runaway labs, we had a lot more then labs as well. I did this for 20 years. I attended field trials every spring and fall for that length of time as well. I also worked at a show kennel and a gaurd dog hell hole for a very brief time. AT the first two, IF someone had an agressive dog he had to learn to control it. THere is something that clicks in their head when you reach a certain point. They look to you for how they are to respond. I can only say you get there through multi daily sessions with a lot of socialization. STarting from far away and working your way closer. You have to let them know YOU will not tolerate it, You are unhappy with this behavior. All priviledges are revoked, and they are greatly in your disfavor. I have yet to see a dog not yield when the message gets through.

 

[Brattina88]

Why is risking your dog's life worth walking them off-leash near ANY street?

Exactly. I trust my dogs - they are allowed off leash in [what I consder] safe envoirnments only. I do not trust other people's dogs, other people, or idiot drivers. It's just not worth the risk to me

 

[Labra]

It just chokes me when someone says that a dog CANNOT be trained to not chase a cat or a squirrel, to not act aggressively because YES they can.

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Not all dogs are off leash canidiates. FAR from it. You can't lump every single dog on the planet together and claim that they are all trainable to such a level. What about Huskies, Malamutes and other sledding/working breeds with extremely high prey drives? what about hounds? what about dogs which have serious aggression issues? dogs which come from an abusive or neglectful backgrounds?

I can't stand the notion that dogs who are leashed responsibily by their owners are somehow 'untrained' and they are missing out. 99% of pet dog owners are not interested in having the next obedience champion. That level of obedience is just not necessary for your average pet dog and I think it is CRAZY to assume that kind of obedience is achievable with every dog.

 

[Paige]

Chewbecca is it all dogs she is aggressive with? Or just the majority?


I have known some dogs who's aggression is horrid and they get along famously with my Spanky. Bring Bandit into the picture and all goes ape. I am actually really curious about this. I have never owned a dog who is DA and I find it to be a very interesting subject.

 

[Labra]

IF someone had an agressive dog he had to learn to control it.

You can't cure dog aggression. Not when it is so badly ingrained. Manage it, sure. Besides, Labs and Pit Bulls are a totally different different kettle of fish. Apples and oranges again.