I just took the dogs to the vet and he seemed very against me switching to raw. Ive been switching the dogs slowly and they seem to like it but as I've only been feeding it to them for a few weeks I dont really notice a drastic change yet so I couldnt really back it up that it was better for them. He said that what they had been seeing was that after a few years of feeding raw, the dogs were not in good health and had certain problems. He asked where I got most of my info on raw, and I have to admit it is from the internet. He seemed very unhappy and did not agree with it at all. I know there are some very big raw supporters on this site but I was hoping I could get some info on why it might NOT be good, so I can make a better decision on whether or not to continue with my dogs switch to raw. Oh, and they would only be on half raw, half kibble, not all raw. Thanks!
vet warned against raw
- Thread starter fomorii56
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Vets are doctors, not nutritionists and nutrition is NOT required of a DVM. I think this is more or less the reason they cannot wrap their arms around it.
You might want to pick up Tom Lonsdales book "Works Wonders" you can also download a copy of his book "Raw Meaty Bones" from his site.
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/
There is also a load of information on that site that dispells some myths about raw feeding - one's you might want to print for your next vet trip.
Here's another great site on myths of raw feeding.
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
You might want to pick up Tom Lonsdales book "Works Wonders" you can also download a copy of his book "Raw Meaty Bones" from his site.
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/
There is also a load of information on that site that dispells some myths about raw feeding - one's you might want to print for your next vet trip.
Here's another great site on myths of raw feeding.
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
My vets are very against raw. They had to put a whole litter of pups down because the owner fed raw. He was stupid and fed the mother raw muscle meat, no bones, no organs, no nothing, except muscle meat. The pups were born with insuficient skeletal development.
But when my guys were on raw, they always gushed about how they looked, how fit they were, how great their teeth looked. Until they heard I fed raw, then they just said nothing.
But when my guys were on raw, they always gushed about how they looked, how fit they were, how great their teeth looked. Until they heard I fed raw, then they just said nothing.
Your vet has probably seen or heard of dogs who are not fed a balanced raw diet. That is really the only risk I can see, as in Dekka's example.
I lucked out - I've been afraid to tell my vet I was feeding raw, but learned from my agility instructor, who uses the same vet, that they are big supporters of it.
I lucked out - I've been afraid to tell my vet I was feeding raw, but learned from my agility instructor, who uses the same vet, that they are big supporters of it.
I find that the vets that are so against raw are the ones that have done no research on it and don't understand it.
I think since you are still going to be feeding kibble, you are just supplementing with raw and I wouldn't worry about it.
Oh, and my personal recommendation - don't discuss nutrition with your vet! LOL!
I think since you are still going to be feeding kibble, you are just supplementing with raw and I wouldn't worry about it.
Oh, and my personal recommendation - don't discuss nutrition with your vet! LOL!
Thanks, I did do a lot of research, granted online, and knew that a lot of vets didnt like raw because there was no guaranteed consistency, which is part of the reason I am supplementing with kibble, just to make sure that there is always a staple. I also think I did a fair amount of looking into what to feed, how often and what percentages of what went into the food. He was just so against it, I realized that in most of my research I didnt find anyone saying it was bad and was worried that I missed some side of the issue.
Wow, to me that is one of the biggest plusses for raw! I find it hard to believe that any one food can really provide full nutrition for life. I switch up what Meg gets constantly, because I believe it is the best way to make sure she is getting what she needs. And, because she is used to eating a variety of foods, she has never once got an upset stomach from a switch or from getting into something she wasn't supposed to have.
It is your dog and your choice. Do enough research that you are comfortable with your decision, and go with it. I think we all (myself included) expect vets to know everything and never make a mistake, but we all know it really isn't true.
It is your dog and your choice. Do enough research that you are comfortable with your decision, and go with it. I think we all (myself included) expect vets to know everything and never make a mistake, but we all know it really isn't true.
I dont have a degree in nutrition to raise a child. Feeding a dog isn't much different (and easier as they don't watch commercials for McDonalds) I think some how in the last 50 years we have been told it is difficult to figure out how to feed a dog.
If you do your research and use common sense, its not hard. And look at your dog. If he is fat, feed him less, if he is skinny feed him more etc etc. Mine are back on kibble now, my freezer broke. And even though they are on a good kibble, supplemented with greentripe and hemp oil, they looked better on the raw.
If you do your research and use common sense, its not hard. And look at your dog. If he is fat, feed him less, if he is skinny feed him more etc etc. Mine are back on kibble now, my freezer broke. And even though they are on a good kibble, supplemented with greentripe and hemp oil, they looked better on the raw.
The consistency thing was something my sister's vet told her, though she didnt seem as against raw as mine was. I think what the vet really meant was if you forget to put something in, then your dog suffers, theres no quality control I guess. I like the idea of raw, I can see whats going in because Im putting it in, I know everything is fresh and balanced. I just wanted to make sure I covered all my bases since the vet really threw me off.
I think a lot of people (vets included) get too uptight about vitamins and minerals and math and stuff
I mean seriously, when is the last time you* measured your meals, was concerned about ratios and percentages?
In my health, safety, nutrition class the professor said the main thing you need to worry about is variety. If that's good enough for us, I think that's good enough for them as well. "In the wild" (that's what people often refer to, right?) they would be eating whole animals - so if we include different types, pieces & parts, including organs then I think that's fine. Like it was said before; if your dog is fat, feed him less. If he's skinny, feed him more I think some vitamin/supplement companies, and dog food companies, have tried to encourage us to believe that they need complicated vit/min ratios... so we stick with their products!
My vets know that I feed a raw diet, and they usually don't have much to say either way. When Maddie's usual vet found out, he asked me a lot of questions and was interested to learn, I think. That was back in March.
Maddie was just at the vet last Friday. He said her coat looks great, and asked what I supplemented her diet with. I said nothing, silly! She just eats raw fish!
(*this is not directed at the OP, or anyone in particular. Just tryin' to get my point across - lol)
I mean seriously, when is the last time you* measured your meals, was concerned about ratios and percentages?
In my health, safety, nutrition class the professor said the main thing you need to worry about is variety. If that's good enough for us, I think that's good enough for them as well. "In the wild" (that's what people often refer to, right?) they would be eating whole animals - so if we include different types, pieces & parts, including organs then I think that's fine. Like it was said before; if your dog is fat, feed him less. If he's skinny, feed him more
I think some vitamin/supplement companies, and dog food companies, have tried to encourage us to believe that they need complicated vit/min ratios... so we stick with their products!My vets know that I feed a raw diet, and they usually don't have much to say either way. When Maddie's usual vet found out, he asked me a lot of questions and was interested to learn, I think. That was back in March.
Maddie was just at the vet last Friday. He said her coat looks great, and asked what I supplemented her diet with. I said nothing, silly! She just eats raw fish!
(*this is not directed at the OP, or anyone in particular. Just tryin' to get my point across - lol)
One of the reasons that vets see dogs that are compromised on raw diets is not that raw is necessarily bad, but that owners are often not good at insuring that the raw they feed is balanced. You have to know what you're doing - it's not enough to toss the dog a few chicken backs every day, and a spoonful of yogurt, and assume that's a good raw diet.
As with any diet, there are drawbacks and there are benefits. I don't like to see anyone become a nazi over whether to feed kibble or raw. Some people don't want to spend all the time, energy and money to try to feed raw. Others, like me, feed kibble because another person in the household is immune compromised and is medically advised not to handle raw meat. If you listen to structure expert, Pat Hastings, she will tell you that she often sees puppies that are raw-fed develop defects. Again, most probably because the owners are getting the diet wrong, not because raw, which is a dog's natural food, is bad. If you are set on feeding raw, there are prepared raw diets that meet nutritional standards, so you don't have to guess at what your dog is getting. Or, you can certainly become well educated and do it on your own. I know that my own vet is leery of it because she sees dogs come in with bone related punctures, and with gastrointestinal problems, but she admits that there are dogs being fed raw that do very well, too. Being a trainer, I know that vets often aren't as up to snuff on behavioral aspects of care as we'd like, too. So, I take nutritional advice from them with a grain of salt. But, I would probably never feed my own dogs raw without consulting a canine nutritionist first to be sure I was getting the balance correct. I will say that my dogs are healthier than the dogs my friends have that get raw, but I don't necessarily think it's all related to diet. My Yorkie is 18 1/2, and my last dog died at 17 1/2. On the other hand, someone I know had a Golden live to be 17+ on raw diet. Pretty good for a Golden.
As with any diet, there are drawbacks and there are benefits. I don't like to see anyone become a nazi over whether to feed kibble or raw. Some people don't want to spend all the time, energy and money to try to feed raw. Others, like me, feed kibble because another person in the household is immune compromised and is medically advised not to handle raw meat. If you listen to structure expert, Pat Hastings, she will tell you that she often sees puppies that are raw-fed develop defects. Again, most probably because the owners are getting the diet wrong, not because raw, which is a dog's natural food, is bad. If you are set on feeding raw, there are prepared raw diets that meet nutritional standards, so you don't have to guess at what your dog is getting. Or, you can certainly become well educated and do it on your own. I know that my own vet is leery of it because she sees dogs come in with bone related punctures, and with gastrointestinal problems, but she admits that there are dogs being fed raw that do very well, too. Being a trainer, I know that vets often aren't as up to snuff on behavioral aspects of care as we'd like, too. So, I take nutritional advice from them with a grain of salt. But, I would probably never feed my own dogs raw without consulting a canine nutritionist first to be sure I was getting the balance correct. I will say that my dogs are healthier than the dogs my friends have that get raw, but I don't necessarily think it's all related to diet. My Yorkie is 18 1/2, and my last dog died at 17 1/2. On the other hand, someone I know had a Golden live to be 17+ on raw diet. Pretty good for a Golden.
I agree, I think the problem with raw is that some people just don't grasp how to do it. You don't just toss your dog some chicken legs day in and day out. On the other hand, you also don't have to get them every nutrient at every meal. Variety over time works. We might feed leg quarters as RMBs for a month straight, and swap around what muscle meats we use- pork, beef, fish, heart, venison. Whatever we have. They might get pork for a week straight, then beef for 2-3 days, then a fish meal one day, then heart for a week, then venison for a couple days. Maybe for 2-3 days they get whole chickens. Or we get a big turkey on sale and chop it into meals and feed that till it's gone. We'll buy a pound of beef liver or kidneys, feed a couple ounces to each dog every day til it's gone, then not give them any for a week or 2. They get eggs 3-4 times a week. After a month of leg quarters as RMB, we might feed pork ribs for 4-5 days straight, then go back to leg quarters. Over time, they get everything they need. We supplement with vitamins occasionally, and give yogurt once in a while too, but not regularly.
Its really not that complicated, you just have to be aware of what you are giving them and get as much variety in there as you can.
Its really not that complicated, you just have to be aware of what you are giving them and get as much variety in there as you can.
When I told my vet that I switched Caiza on to pre-made raw (natures variety) they were very impressed with the ingredients and since all of Caiza's GI issues they were happy to know that it was working for him. They respect the fact that I choose to go all natural with my dog. I also don't use any flea/tick oils and very little heartworm treatment because it also upsets Caiza's stomach. While pre-made raw can be more expensive, Only owning one dog makes it worth it for me. I don't have to worry about what he is getting and what he maybe missing because everything is already in their for him and he is like a savage wolf eating it :lol-sign: Vets need to open there minds and eyes and realize that more and more people are looking for natural or much better nutrition than what they are trained to offer ( ex. Science diet and Eukanuba), especially after the whole recall thing................
I've feed RAW/BARF 100% for 15 years to all my dogs and cats. Never once a health problem. Vet visits are restricted to puppy boosters then Rabies @ 10 months then every 3 years. Zorro my GSD I PTS @ 15 years of age this past spring.
I personally will never buy commercial feeds, there's more visable health benefits in RAW/BARF, no established Vet could ever convince me otherwise. When I open my own practice I will promote RAW/BARF and limited vaccines for canine and feline.
On the contrary, feeding BARF/RAW is a science in the food bowl.
I personally will never buy commercial feeds, there's more visable health benefits in RAW/BARF, no established Vet could ever convince me otherwise. When I open my own practice I will promote RAW/BARF and limited vaccines for canine and feline.
On the contrary, feeding BARF/RAW is a science in the food bowl.