Vent: ACD's and Cows

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#1
Yesterday I brought Toby with us to my Moms house while our house was being shown. Tyson (ACD) is unpredictable with other dogs - knowing this we made sure to do the greeting outside and when everything went well (Toby initiated a game of chase to which Tyson gladly herded him around the yard) we went into the house.

Inside the house, Ty was a little nervous. He was whale eyed, and alert barking every few minutes. If Toby was doing something he was unsure about (like touching his toys or sniffing his bed) he'd bark in a higher pitch and Toby would move along. There were only a few times where Toby barked back, but his posture was quite loose and he seemed to be barking just to bark.

Once in a while Shenzi would alert bark in a really quick high-pitched sound. It almost seemed as though she'd forgotten Toby was there and was spooked when he came around a corner.

After some time, my Mom began to punish Ty for barking or growling. Toby was keeping his distance for the most part and just wandering the house. I told my Mom to just leave him because he was giving Toby warnings and that isn't a *bad* thing. ~ I was ignored. Mom ended up kicking him in the head when he wouldn't stop, and then justified her action by saying that cattle dogs have thick skulls and that cows kick them in the head when they're working in the fields (she doesn't own cows, and her dogs have never been 'working' dogs) so they're fine, they just need it sometimes because it sets them straight (like a reset button).

We left shortly after that.... I'm just shocked that my Mom would even spew that baloney. I can handle the fact that other people choose to train in ways that maybe I don't agree with or just plain wouldn't do. But that really bothered me. Ty wasn't doing anything wrong. He was nervous, he didn't understand why Toby was in the house because he hasn't had much dog-dog socialization or even much basic training for that matter.. and Toby has only been over like 2 other times, so he's a "strange dog" who looks different and makes snorty pig noises and is suddenly inside his house. He was uncomfortable, and he was letting Toby know that he didn't want to play in the house and to just leave him alone - which Toby respected.

At one point Toby got up on the couch and Ty was not very happy about that so he went over to him and barked and growled at him. Toby flopped straight down onto his back and laid there until Ty went quiet, then he got up and got off the couch.

They were simply communicating, and my Mom was punishing Ty for it.... :(
 

stardogs

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#2
Poor Ty. I can't even imagine kicking a dog because his distant relatives could handle it. (Which if they were good with cattle, likely wouldn't have been a frequent occurance) >.< Hopefully it doesn't make him even more anxious around other dogs. It would have been so much smarter to just remove his bed and toys while canine visitors were about and reinforce *good* behavior.
 

Dogdragoness

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#3
UGH I am sorry about this whole situation, when family disagrees on training its always awkward :( But I guess its a good thing she doesnt treat Toby like that?

My ACD could withstand a kick to her head, and did when she was learning how to read stock, but she LEARNED from it and it didnt happen twice. But when it did happen, it didnt even phase her, but she also made sure it didnt happen again, either LOL

this sucks because ACDs are a dog who you have to earn the respect of, they are "fire eaters", they drink gasoline and fart fireballs (as someone said on another forum LOL). Bad treatment is just going to make them resentful, and even retaliate. I know, Izze, as much as she loved me was very unforgiving of handler mistakes and she would come up the leash at me if she thought a reprimand I gave her was unjustified.
 

Michiyo-Fir

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#4
That's absolutely terrible..

Getting kicked in the head while working cows versus getting kicked by a person that's his handler without expecting it at all is so vastly different. I think no matter how hard a dog's head is, having their own owner approach them and kick them in the head is traumatizing to any dog, especially when the person is someone close and a source of food, protection, etc....
 
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#5
She was already beside him when she kicked him so she didn't really approach him and kick him.. it's hard to explain exactly what she did but I immediately told her not to do that to him and that's when she went into the "oh cows do it to ACD's all the time" well... not YOUR ACD's though.

My bulldog can outrun both of those ACD's, there's no way she's getting them into a field without making them lose some weight first... (which also won't happen, she's convinced they're just big boned).

Anyway.. I hate to bash my Mom, but this really just rubbed me the wrong way. She's never liked dogs, I don't know why she has them. And she used to tell me all the time that I can totally just steal Shenzi because she doesn't like her anyway (higher energy) - and I have said I would totally take her, but I live in an apartment (right now) with cats and she doesn't do well with cats. She also needs way more exercise than she has ever gotten and with a 1 year old, I wouldn't be able to keep up with her needs. One day I would love a high energy dog that I can just work with all day long, but right here, right now, would probably be a bad idea.


ETA; I could tell they were regularly more "aggressive" assertive?? with the dogs as Toby had followed me upstairs into my brothers room and when my brother wanted him to get out, he raised his voice - and his hand. I turned to Toby and simply said "Toby, out" and he walked into the hall and laid down. I turned to my brother and said "You really don't need to act so aggressively with my dog" and he responded "sorry, I'm used to my idiot dogs"

Train them... this is all training related... it kills me because when they first got these dogs, I offered to come over and train them and work with them and walk them while they were at work and whatnot... they said no and now 4 years later they're still having problems with the dogs... they've seen a trainer too (and they swear by her) but they're not consistent at all so any training she did with them is out the window.
 

Romy

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#6
If someone believes ACDs getting kicked in the head by cows is supposedly fine, and it supposedly doesn't deter ACDs from herding cows, why would someone think that hitting one in the head would deter them from a particular behavior!?! :wall:

Sounds like your dogs need to stay far far away from your family. I wouldn't trust them with kids either, honestly.
 
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#8
If you had said your Mom owned little dogs instead of ACDs I would swear that we have the same Mom. My Mom would be better off with stuffed animals instead of lapdogs that get on her nerves for wanting to be near her.:rolleyes:
 

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