Tug of War?

[adojrts]

Okie Dokie......I am Not Disagreeing with Most of what you said......And i am still sticking to my guns that if the dog has even the slightest dominence or aggressive issues tug of war will bring that out even more in the dog......I am not saying ALL dogs should not play tug of war and the game should be banned.....haha..... I am just saying that i have not played it was my dog and he knows whos in charge and is one of the most happpiest well behaved dogs i have ever met.......(could have to do with the training my Boyfriend is doing with him.....Tater is going to be a DUCK DOG)......And not to get everyone confused i am not saying he is like that because i Didnt play Tug of War with him.

I would also like to add that my brother just rescued a Dog named Woody....He is 3 months old now (we are pretty sure the he is a Chessapeake Bay Retriever) But he is a little spit fire and Very dominant for his age and Very mouthy and nippy......Luckily my brother is going to start a training program with him. (which hopfully helps). This dog looks like it will be 100ibls plus....and you put Very Dominant/and Hard headed and mouthy into the mix......Doesnt sound like to much fun......I know i have been rambling on and on.....But the point i was trying to make is....I was over at my Bros and he asked me what woody would do if he played tug of war with him.......So I said well go ahead and try it.....Instantly Woody start growling and making these weird ass noices jumping and showing his teeth.....i told my bro to get it away from him and make him sit.......Woody was more wound up then i have Even seen him and was jumping up on my bro growling and nipping.......Now you tell me, should Tug Of War be played with that dog?!? I have 2 words "OBEDIENCE TRAINING".

Agreed, YOU nor your BRO shouldn't play Tug with that pup for simple reasons.
Red flag words that you USE such as dominant, hard headed and mouthy.
And you don't know how to train it correctly.

There are people on this forum (and off of it) including myself that could and HAVE easily trained such a pup/dog and also use tugging as a reinforcer or play. WITHOUT the dog being aggressive on ANY level, dominant or out of control. This is regardless of breed or size. Who cares if the dog is over a hundred pounds, it shouldn't matter if the tug is trained correctly and with consideration to a dogs stimulous threshold and any self control issues. At which time if those are a concern, then training it can be a huge benefit but not if done correctly. Generally the people who have problems with bite inhibition, control issues, release issues, boundry issues etc have NOT trained it correctly and are a bad example. Therefore keeping the myth alive, especially to those uneducated in dog training or at the very least to those who don't keep up with current method's.

It has nothing to do with the size of the dog, its about training, setting boundries and rules (as stated repeatedly in this thread by soooooooooo many) or the dog/pups age. Although it is easier to train it in pups.

This falls into the same mentality as:
Feeding Raw causes aggression.
Training with food/treats causes aggression.
Dog kills something (rodents/hunting/cats) it causes Human aggression.
All dogs that have bitten are aggressive.

 

[CharlieDog]

Agreed, YOU nor your BRO should play Tug with that pup for simple reasons.
Red flag words that you USE such as dominant, hard headed and mouthy.

There are people on this forum (and off of it) including myself that could and HAVE easily trained such a pup/dog and also use tugging as a reinforcer or play. WITHOUT the dog being aggressive on ANY level, dominant or out of control. This is regardless of breed or size. Who cares if the dog is over a hundred pounds, it shouldn't matter if the tug is trained correctly and with consideration to a dogs stimulous threshold and any self control issues. At which time if those are a concern, then training it can be a huge benefit but not if done correctly. Generally the people who have problems with bite inhibition, control issues, release issues, boundry issues etc have NOT trained it correctly and are a bad example. Therefore keeping the myth alive, especially to those uneducated in dog training or at the very least to those who don't keep up with current method's.

It has nothing to do with the size of the dog, its about training, setting boundries and rules (as stated repeatedly in this thread by soooooooooo many) or the dog/pups age. Although it is easier to train it in pups.

All you proved by your post is that you don't know how to use tug correctly, you are not interested in learning how to do it correctly, therefore DON'T use it.

:hail::hail:

 

[TheGoldenRetriever]

I would also like to add that my brother just rescued a Dog named Woody....He is 3 months old now (we are pretty sure the he is a Chessapeake Bay Retriever) But he is a little spit fire and Very dominant for his age and Very mouthy and nippy......

He's a puppy ... most puppies are mouthy and nippy! Now maybe he should be just starting to get out of that at 3 months old, but he's a recently adopted rescue ... many shelter/rescue dogs have been neglected ... especially when it comes to any sort of training, like bite inhibition. But he's also a retriever breed, they tend to be mouthy their whole lives ... it's just a matter of redirecting the mouthiness toward things other than people ... tug could actually help toward that goal.

I was over at my Bros and he asked me what woody would do if he played tug of war with him.......So I said well go ahead and try it.....Instantly Woody start growling and making these weird ass noices jumping and showing his teeth.....

Cheyenne (The Golden Retriever) used to do this too, many dogs do while playing tug. But it doesn't mean they are dominant or aggressive ... it;s just all part of the game. Two brief illustrations:

My stepson had a favorite trick he liked to play on new friends he brought home who had never met Cheyenne. He'd start a game of tug with her and while playing would say to her, "Ohhhh ... you're so ferocious!!" ... in a growly type of voice. Cheyenne would immediately start growling, snarling and showing her teeth while still playing tug.

Stepson would continue and really get her worked up ... she sounded like SUCH a mean doggie! Stepson would then put his hand in Cheyennes mouth while all this growling and teeth showing was going on .... which would panic his new kid friend who thought stepson was nuts! But no matter how worked up she was, Cheyenne would immediately drop the tug toy, stop snarling and growling, and then back up and sit. Stepson would crack up laughing while his new kid friend still looked absolutely shocked!

Now Cheyenne was a VERY well trained and reliable dog ... so I don't recommend this "trick"... and stepson would warn his friends not to try it with dogs not as trained/reliable as she. But it does show that the growling, snarling, and even teeth showing is part of the game to a dog that clearly understands signals that mean the game is over.

Second illustration is Cheyenne and Spike playing tug together. Spike was my guy's mixed breed .... Spike's dam was a Lab and his sire was a German Shepherd/Wolf Hybrid. (Accidental breeding on a nearby ranch ... my guy took one of the pups from them.) Cheyenne and Spike used to play tug together... both would growl, snarl, and show teeth. But upon hearing the command "Drop it!" both would drop the toy and all the growling, snarling, and teeth-baring immediately stopped ... shortly followed by them nuzzling each other. Because it wasn't aggression ... it was just part of the game.

Neither of our dogs were aggressive ... not Cheyenne and not Spike, even though his mix suggested he should have been. I swear people fear any dog with wolf in him more than they fear Pit Bulls. Because of that we never went around advertising that he had any wolf in him ... he looked like a GSD mix. But now that's he's gone I guess it doesn't matter now, and we would not actively seek out another wolf mix.

(Sadly both are at the Bridge now, Spike 2 years ago at 11 yrs. old from a cancerous hemangioma and Cheyenne just this past Father's Day from geriatric heart failure at 15 yrs. old.) Hope they're re-united and there's lots of tug-playing and nuzzling!

Corgi the only thing I do have to warn you about is make sure you arent somewhere you can slip, or if you fall, hurt yourself LOL.

ROF!!! Now that's funny, and so very true! Spike the Lab/GSD/Wolf had a habit of dropping the tug toy unexpectedly, just as you were really getting into the game ... sent us to the floor or the ground more than a few times. I could swear he did it on purpose and thought it was hysterically funny!!

EDIT: I should also add that Cheyenne and Spike were not raised together ... they met and were socialized to each other when both were adults. But as both were well trained beforehand, there was never a problem between them... and they both loved cats. (Well actually Cheyenne loved cats ... Spike completely ignored the cats, except for the one who absolutely adored him.)

 

[darkchild16]

ROF!!! Now that's funny, and so very true! Spike the Lab/GSD/Wolf had a habit of dropping the tug toy unexpectedly, just as you were really getting into the game ... sent us to the floor or the ground more than a few times. I could swear he did it on purpose and thought it was hysterically funny!!

Oh that is both Walkers and Patches FAVORITE thing to do to us, ESPECIALLY when it is a 3 way tug, me, Patches, and Walker, they team up on me and make sure I fall or something LOL.

 

[drmom777]

I used tug to teach Uncle fred to play and become more confident. He didn't know how to play with toys and had no clue about how to have fun with human. i used one of those big, soft Booda ropes and took it on out walks. At various points we would stop walking and I would get him to hol the rope, then i would grab it and run away. Finally, after many repetitions he figured out to try to get the rope, and then we would play tug.

i knew i had made progress when one night he stuck his nose in my pocket and fished out the rope and pranced away. I still remember how good it felt. He still is pretty gentle and mild with the tug, though.

Mini, on the other hand is really into her tug. Not only does she growl, all the hair on her back stands up. You would think she was out of control and vicious. But all I have to do is say "drop" and she lets go and stands and wags at me, hoping I will throw the object for her. Seriously, though, I am talking about some serious snarling.

 

[Whisper]

Originally Posted by adojrts
Agreed, YOU nor your BRO shouldn't play Tug with that pup for simple reasons.
Red flag words that you USE such as dominant, hard headed and mouthy.
And you don't know how to train it correctly.

There are people on this forum (and off of it) including myself that could and HAVE easily trained such a pup/dog and also use tugging as a reinforcer or play. WITHOUT the dog being aggressive on ANY level, dominant or out of control. This is regardless of breed or size. Who cares if the dog is over a hundred pounds, it shouldn't matter if the tug is trained correctly and with consideration to a dogs stimulous threshold and any self control issues. At which time if those are a concern, then training it can be a huge benefit but not if done correctly. Generally the people who have problems with bite inhibition, control issues, release issues, boundry issues etc have NOT trained it correctly and are a bad example. Therefore keeping the myth alive, especially to those uneducated in dog training or at the very least to those who don't keep up with current method's.

It has nothing to do with the size of the dog, its about training, setting boundries and rules (as stated repeatedly in this thread by soooooooooo many) or the dog/pups age. Although it is easier to train it in pups.

This falls into the same mentality as:
Feeding Raw causes aggression.
Training with food/treats causes aggression.
Dog kills something (rodents/hunting/cats) it causes Human aggression.
All dogs that have bitten are aggressive.

:hail: Great post!

 

[Hillside]

Well......Personally i have Never played tug of War with Tater.....Especially in the beginning when you as well as the dog are figuring out there personality......I honestly do believe that it can bring on aggression....Especially with certain breeds....i know alot of people Do play tug of war with there dogs and everything is all good....But there is really no reason to play that game with them......Like i said before its up to you.....And especially if the breeder said you prolly shouldnt i would hold off on that one....I mean, she breeds the dogs,she would know.....Maybe Newfoundlands just dont know how to handle all the excitement and emotions that Tug Of War brings......

What would those certain breeds be?

 

[Tasha13]

Agreed, YOU nor your BRO shouldn't play Tug with that pup for simple reasons.
Red flag words that you USE such as dominant, hard headed and mouthy.
And you don't know how to train it correctly.

There are people on this forum (and off of it) including myself that could and HAVE easily trained such a pup/dog and also use tugging as a reinforcer or play. WITHOUT the dog being aggressive on ANY level, dominant or out of control. This is regardless of breed or size. Who cares if the dog is over a hundred pounds, it shouldn't matter if the tug is trained correctly and with consideration to a dogs stimulous threshold and any self control issues. At which time if those are a concern, then training it can be a huge benefit but not if done correctly. Generally the people who have problems with bite inhibition, control issues, release issues, boundry issues etc have NOT trained it correctly and are a bad example. Therefore keeping the myth alive, especially to those uneducated in dog training or at the very least to those who don't keep up with current method's.

It has nothing to do with the size of the dog, its about training, setting boundries and rules (as stated repeatedly in this thread by soooooooooo many) or the dog/pups age. Although it is easier to train it in pups.

This falls into the same mentality as:
Feeding Raw causes aggression.
Training with food/treats causes aggression.
Dog kills something (rodents/hunting/cats) it causes Human aggression.
All dogs that have bitten are aggressive.

Ok.....I think you are TOTALLY taking is out of context........Basiclly i am saying he shouldnt play that with him untill he has established who is in TOTAL control and who is boss......And Yes Yes i know you can do that threw Tug.....But you can do that without Tug as well........You are acting like Tug is gods gift to training and playing with you dog/dogs......


Point blank- people have differant ways of Playing and Training with there dogs. Everyone has a write to there own opinion and there own way of doing things..... Oh and ALL of this Feeding Raw causes aggression.
Training with food/treats causes aggression.
Dog kills something (rodents/hunting/cats) it causes Human aggression.
All dogs that have bitten are aggressive........I DO NOT agree with and is just silly.



And also you totally went off on a tangent and were All over the place.....The mentioning of Woody most likly reaching in or near a hundred pounds was he needs to be training you dont want a 100 pound plus dog jumping or nipping at you so it has to be taught to stop and learn not to do that when it is a pup.......Point being-Obedience training......That actually has nothing to do with TUG......I just think you should have your dog somewhat trained and know whos boss before you introduce TUG. That is my opinion and i have the right to that. And you have a right to yours.

 

[Dekka]

LOL Tasha are you even reading the posts in this thread? Many people who's dogs are bigger than that play tug. Size isn't really an issue here.

And I get Ado's point. IF you are soo worried about 'who is boss' (ewww I hate all that antiquated "we are at war with our dogs stuff") then maybe you shouldn't. I was assuming you were out of the dark ages when it came to training. You are right, you are free to believe what you like. There are people out there who still believe the earth is flat-and that is their right too.

But it is just plain 'silly' (as you called other peoples erroneous beliefs) to think that tug causes aggression any more than feeding raw will.

 

[Tasha13]

LOL Tasha are you even reading the posts in this thread? Many people who's dogs are bigger than that play tug. Size isn't really an issue here.

And I get Ado's point. IF you are soo worried about 'who is boss' (ewww I hate all that antiquated "we are at war with our dogs stuff") then maybe you shouldn't. I was assuming you were out of the dark ages when it came to training. You are right, you are free to believe what you like. There are people out there who still believe the earth is flat-and that is their right too.

But it is just plain 'silly' (as you called other peoples erroneous beliefs) to think that tug causes aggression any more than feeding raw will.

Alrighty! Well Yes i Have read the posts on this thread........And when i mentioned his weight i didnt mean thats a reason Not to play Tug OR you Shouldnt play Tug with a Big dog........I was just talking about Good ole obedience training. And i am not in the dark ages! And what exactly does this mean? (ewww I hate all that antiquated "we are at war with our dogs stuff")??????? ............I am not at War with Tater or any other dog i come across......Can i ask you a question? I am curious how you trained your dog? Since i am in the Dark Ages.....Why dont you "Enlighten" me.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Ok.....I think you are TOTALLY taking is out of context........Basiclly i am saying he shouldnt play that with him untill he has established who is in TOTAL control and who is boss......And Yes Yes i know you can do that threw Tug.....But you can do that without Tug as well........You are acting like Tug is gods gift to training and playing with you dog/dogs......


Point blank- people have differant ways of Playing and Training with there dogs. Everyone has a write to there own opinion and there own way of doing things..... Oh and ALL of this Feeding Raw causes aggression.
Training with food/treats causes aggression.
Dog kills something (rodents/hunting/cats) it causes Human aggression.
All dogs that have bitten are aggressive........I DO NOT agree with and is just silly.



And also you totally went off on a tangent and were All over the place.....The mentioning of Woody most likly reaching in or near a hundred pounds was he needs to be training you dont want a 100 pound plus dog jumping or nipping at you so it has to be taught to stop and learn not to do that when it is a pup.......Point being-Obedience training......That actually has nothing to do with TUG......I just think you should have your dog somewhat trained and know whos boss before you introduce TUG. That is my opinion and i have the right to that. And you have a right to yours.

Ok, I have Rottweilers. Rottweilers of correct temperament, and I play tug with them from the time they are little puppies.

I use tug as a reward/motivator ALL THE TIME in obedience training.

I use tug to teach the puppy SELF CONTROL, how to settle, and as a way to blow off steam and use up some of that exuberant puppy energy that wants to bite everything in sight.

Every interaction you have with a dog is training in some way. I control my dogs, and tug HELPS me towards that goal.

With the Chessie mix you were describing, when the pup gets growly, ENCOURAGE him to grip the tug and play. Use a certain toy to play tug, and keep it put away except when you are playing. Use the puppy's desire to tug to TRAIN HIM.

SIT. Good puppy (TUG TUG TUG)

COME. GOOD PUPPY (TUGGY TUGGY TUGGY)

FETCH. GOOD puppy (tug tug tug)

With the dogs I have trained, I have found the tug game to be a VERY strong motivator and reward. I use it EVERY time I am training.

 

[doberkim]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh.. Well with big dogs unless the dog needs to really tug ( like for police work etc) no I do not encourage tug of war.
As puppies you let because of the baby teeth- the pup thinks they won- ie I am stronger than you are. That is not something you want a really large dog to think.. I do not tug of war with my borzois, and they are no where near the weight and size of a newfie. But still- Zubin at 98 pounds if he thought he could, could easily take me off my feet.. ( but he doesn't think he can from early training etc..)

Huh? Do I have to check my puppies tally sheet to see how many times she won, versus how many times I won? My dogs can easily take me off my feet if they wanted to, and I still tug with them - its a wonderful game, and this makes absolutely no sense.

Okie Dokie......I am Not Disagreeing with Most of what you said......And i am still sticking to my guns that if the dog has even the slightest dominence or aggressive issues tug of war will bring that out even more in the dog......I am not saying ALL dogs should not play tug of war and the game should be banned.....haha..... I am just saying that i have not played it was my dog and he knows whos in charge and is one of the most happpiest well behaved dogs i have ever met.......(could have to do with the training my Boyfriend is doing with him.....Tater is going to be a DUCK DOG)......And not to get everyone confused i am not saying he is like that because i Didnt play Tug of War with him.

I would also like to add that my brother just rescued a Dog named Woody....He is 3 months old now (we are pretty sure the he is a Chessapeake Bay Retriever) But he is a little spit fire and Very dominant for his age and Very mouthy and nippy......Luckily my brother is going to start a training program with him. (which hopfully helps). This dog looks like it will be 100ibls plus....and you put Very Dominant/and Hard headed and mouthy into the mix......Doesnt sound like to much fun......I know i have been rambling on and on.....But the point i was trying to make is....I was over at my Bros and he asked me what woody would do if he played tug of war with him.......So I said well go ahead and try it.....Instantly Woody start growling and making these weird ass noices jumping and showing his teeth.....i told my bro to get it away from him and make him sit.......Woody was more wound up then i have Even seen him and was jumping up on my bro growling and nipping.......Now you tell me, should Tug Of War be played with that dog?!? I have 2 words "OBEDIENCE TRAINING".

I have a 100 lb dog, a doberman at that, and for him, his tug IS involved in his obedience training. All you've shown in the following posts after this one is that yes, you have no desire to understand how the tug can be used. You have a pup who was excited by the tug and didn't understand the rules - as a handler, it is your job to TEACH them.

 

[Jules]

Oh god. I raised a monster I guess. We tug ALL the time. And she's a pit bull mix. Oh the horror!

I guess when we play tug and she growls excitedly... and I ask her to drop it... and she does... in the back of her mind she is planning to eat me. Yes, there are rules to be followed- but for my dog, too, it can be a very handy tool for training.

 

[DanL]

Jules it's only a matter of time before your dog turns on you and bites you for real.

:rofl1:

 

[Whisper]

I've played tug with a 115 lb. rottweiler. It did nothing to make him "aggressive" or out of control. He didn't bite/nip/jump up on me during or after tug. "Dominant" is a very loose term that doesn't say much about the dog, but by some definitions he fits that description. Tug in no way made him more "aggressive" or "dominant" or more likely to be.

 

[Ratboy]

I've played, or tried to play tug of war with every dog I've had, without any problems. My Beagle loved it, every day he wanted to go at it, even a couple of hours before he dropped dead he was playing, and pulling very hard. He was easily able to pull me, well over 200 pounds, all over the house at a high enough speed to cause me to scream in pain, if I hit something while on the ride.

The best tugger I ever had was Gus (Jr), my Pit mix, who could almost pull his tug thing out of my hands, even when I had it wrapped around my hands as tight as I could get it. He wasn't into it like my Beagle was, his thing was chewing.

King and Molly don't care about it at all. Molly gets frustrated if she doesn't "win", and King just doesn't care. He shakes his head, and pulls a few times, and lets go. He doesn't care about toys in general. His thing is hunting bugs, mice, moles, etc, and eating them, and making, and demanding physical contact with any and all humans around him.

My old Dachshund Gus I, took it way too seriously, and if my dad would do it with him, there was a 50/50 chance he would get nipped after Gus got so wound up in it that he wouldn't give it up and made a decent attempt to "kill" it. At 5, I could do it with him in total safety, and so could my friends, but adults were a different story, he wouldn't give it up without a fight, and would grab at it violently, with no regard to where hands were at. With me, he was quite tame.

My friend's dog, Buddy, a 110 pound Ridgeback?/Lab? mix, is the hardest puller I have ever gone up against, he has one of those big rope tugs, and can pull amazingly hard, to the point my hands hurt so bad afterwards they keep me awake the night after. Worse than shooting my tiny .40S&W pistol, and that's pretty bad.

 

[oc_spirit]

I'm jumping in very late here so I apologize if this has been mentioned already but Tug can be a a GREAT tool for boosting a dog's confidence. I tug all the time with OC (Ronan has no interest). It's great for a reward or just plain fun. As young pups, I let them win to boost their confidence in their ability to get the tug! Honestly, if you lost at a game all the time (never winning the tug) would you want to keep playing? If they get too carried away the game ends by me simply removing the toy from the puppy and walking away. As they get older they learn "drop it" or "give".

I don't recommend playing tug if you have an unstable relationship with your dog and he could easily out-muscle you, especially if it is an older pup or adult dog.

 

[Jules]

Jules it's only a matter of time before your dog turns on you and bites you for real.

:rofl1:

That's what my grandparents tell me everytime I talk to them. I did that mistake once to tell them that she sleeps on the bed with me when Dan is gone- they told me to be careful as she's just waiting to bite my throat.

:rofl1::rofl1::rofl1: