Training with Toys

[Elrohwen]

Pretty much all of Watson's training so far has been with food, but I'd like to use toys more. When he was younger his toy drive wasn't high enough, but with a little work and some maturity, he now goes nuts for certain toys. Can someone recommend good resources for using them in training beyond the simple "ask for a behavior and tug as a reward". There's a lot I don't know about using toy drive and nobody around here seems to be training it (even in agility classes they just recommend food for the beginner classes)

My second issue is bringing the toy back. He has a natural retrieve with some toys, specifically rubber or plastic things like balls. He is much more interested in soft toys and will tug much more, but when he gets them he runs off to shred them. He doesn't play keep away necessarily, but he finds it much more fun to lay in the corner and destroy the toy than to bring it back and tug more. How should I handle this? Should I train a formal retrieve with these types of toys or is there a more "organic" way of teaching him that it's fun to bring it back? Right now I'm playing with two toys to get him to at least leave the first toy, but that doesn't teach him to bring it back for more play.

 

[release the hounds]

lots of ways to get where you want to go. With dogs that just don't want to come back even with 2 toys, I use a long line and they can't take it anywhere and they get "nagged" back to me, then marked and rewarded with the new toy and play. They learn right away what's up, so I have no problem using some "positive punishment" at that point in the form of nagging them back to me with the long line.

If they drop the other toy when you present the new one and come to you, great. Separately I'd teach a "take it" or "get it". Put the dog in a sit/down, walk a few steps, put a toy down, walk a few more and place yourself Point and tell the dog to "get it" and when they get to you, mark and reward with new toy or play.

then when they drop the toy coming back to you, you point and tell them to get it. Nothing happens till they do, and you can help them. At first just for going back to it will get a mark and reward from me, then they have to bring it further and further back. At some point along the line, coming to within 3 feet of me is good enough and if they don't get it to there at least as soon as it is dropped I say nothing but calmly walk over to pick it up. If I get there before they get it again, the game is over without a word. Just pick it up and done.

They learn quickly not to drop it before they get back to me and if they do, they better get it and come to me before I get it. If they do drop early and then get it before I do, i go back to where I was originally standing and they bring it to that point before I mark and reward.

As for the shredding, get tougher toys or just use the rubber balls he likes the chase and bringing back. My one dog prefers the chase so much more than tugging, the other is the opposite. Use what works. But most dogs that learn that bringing back to tug is rewarded with more toys and more tugging, usually choose that over taking and shredding after a little bit. Most, not all.

I don't use a formal retrieve for this application because those are different words and a different exercise and I keep it separate. for rewards, just get it back close to me. Retrieve is formal and front and calm and a more refined behavior I don't want to maintain when I'm working on other things if that makes sense.

 

[Elrohwen]

If they drop the other toy when you present the new one and come to you, great. Separately I'd teach a "take it" or "get it". Put the dog in a sit/down, walk a few steps, put a toy down, walk a few more and place yourself Point and tell the dog to "get it" and when they get to you, mark and reward with new toy or play.

then when they drop the toy coming back to you, you point and tell them to get it. Nothing happens till they do, and you can help them. At first just for going back to it will get a mark and reward from me, then they have to bring it further and further back. At some point along the line, coming to within 3 feet of me is good enough and if they don't get it to there at least as soon as it is dropped I say nothing but calmly walk over to pick it up. If I get there before they get it again, the game is over without a word. Just pick it up and done.

They learn quickly not to drop it before they get back to me and if they do, they better get it and come to me before I get it. If they do drop early and then get it before I do, i go back to where I was originally standing and they bring it to that point before I mark and reward.

This is exactly what I've done with rubber/plastic toys and it worked well. Not 100%, but he's getting better at it. My goal is to get to the same place with soft toys. I may try the long line.

As for the shredding, get tougher toys or just use the rubber balls he likes the chase and bringing back. My one dog prefers the chase so much more than tugging, the other is the opposite. Use what works. But most dogs that learn that bringing back to tug is rewarded with more toys and more tugging, usually choose that over taking and shredding after a little bit. Most, not all.

I'm not to the point where I could use a ball or rubber toy as a reward :-( He will play with them when he's in the mood, but not reliably and most things are more interesting than a ball. Soft things though are gold. It can vary in softness from a sheepskin type thing, to a nylon covered bumper, but either way I think what he enjoys so much about them is that he could possibly rip them apart (maybe he's getting back to his bird dog roots and thinks they're birds :rofl1. He loves tugging and chasing, so I hope to make those higher value than ripping up the toy. He'll tug forever, but as soon as I let him have it (or throw it) he's thinking "Yes! It's mine! I can rip it up now!"

 

[sassafras]

I occasionally use real fur - I have a bunny fur tug, and this weird square of deer hide I bought at Cabela's or somewhere like that (I guess they sell them for training hunting dogs?) - with Squash.

Squash likes to hold and gnaw them. So I will carry it through, say, a rally course then just give it to him when we're done and let him keep it until our next turn. One time he stripped and ate the fur off one of our tugs, though.

 

[Elrohwen]

I occasionally use real fur - I have a bunny fur tug, and this weird square of deer hide I bought at Cabela's or somewhere like that (I guess they sell them for training hunting dogs?) - with Squash.

Squash likes to hold and gnaw them. So I will carry it through, say, a rally course then just give it to him when we're done and let him keep it until our next turn. One time he stripped and ate the fur off one of our tugs, though.

The bunny fur tugs inspired my purchase of a sheepskin tug. I have bunnies so I just couldn't go through with buying bunny fur :lol-sign: And he does love to tug other soft things, so I figured the actual fur wasn't as important as the fact that it was from a real animal. He loves those things way more than previous tugs (and he already liked tugging other things) so it was a good purchase! I got one for tugging, and one on a 3ft-ish line so I can drag it around too (since he likes the flirt pole). He would strip the fur off in a second though if I let him.

I'm going to try taking it outside and using it as a reward for turning away from wildlife. I think that would be one of the most appropriate ways to use it as a reward in his case.