Training to not feel "abandoned"

[houndlove]

Okay, I know this belongs in the training section, but there is way more traffic here and it's kind of time-sensitive.

Here's the story: Marlowe and I are taking agility. Every now and then the instructor will ask us to tie up our dogs somewhere in the center (or crate them, or x-pen them) so we can all have a short talk without worrying about the dogs. Marlowe hates this. He barks, and he's a coonhound so his bark is ear-splitting. It doesn't matter if I try to ignore him, he just keeps it up and there's only so much ignoring of that behavior that you can do when the entire point of tying the dogs up was for the humans to be able to talk unhindered. When the instructor asked us to do this last class I was like, hoo-boy here goes nothing, because Marlowe has always done this. I can't tie him up anywhere (or leave him in the car) for a moment, not even 30 seconds, without him starting up. The thing is, at home, he's quite indifferent about being in my presence. He'll hang out outside by himself with no problem. If I shut a door to a room I'm in, he just goes elsewhere and hangs. So it's something about being in unfamiliar places, and I can understand that--it's weird, he feels abandoned in a strange place, it's a little unsettling.

Tonight I have the training center rented for an hour to do some agility homework. While we're there, I also want to start to train him to be okay with me not being by his side and up his butt at all times when we're not at home. I see all these other dogs around who are totally cool with being tied up outside the coffee shop for a minute, or x-penned at the training center while other dogs work, and I want that!

But how? I'm sure it takes desensitization so I'm trying to figure out, when and how do I reward for quiet calm behavior? Especially because my end goal is quiet calm behavior while I am not even paying a lick of attention to him. Advice?

 

[Chewbecca]

hm...I don't have much experience in this area, as you know that. But how about anytime he's quiet in the beginning, treat (or click and treat, whichever you do).
Then gradually try to build time up after that?

I mean, would it be too hard to break away from the group of people at training for a second to say, "good quiet, Marlowe! *treat*" and then toss him a treat?
That way he knows you'll return, but he's GOT to earn that treat by being quiet.

Is there somewhere in the gym that you could tie him to and practice downing him at first and gradually build it up?

I hope I don't sound too clueless.

 

[lastkid]

(delurking...)

I had a similar need and a similarly clingy dog. I trained a nice quiet tie just like I would a "stay" only she was attached to something and she could sit, stand, lay down, whatever (as long as she wasn't pulling at or chewing the leash or barking/whining). She's still attentive to where I am, just not at that frantic, "OMG, MOM, I CAN SEE YOU AND YOU FORGOT TO TAKE ME WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!" barking thing.

I started by tying her and rewarding her for being calm while I was right next to her. Then I tied her and walked away (maybe a foot or so at first) then walked back and rewarded immediately before there was any anxiety. Increase distance and longevity just like you would for a stay, only here you're rewarding calm, quiet behavior when he's tied to something.

It can be useful to practice tying at home, just so they get used to the idea of hanging out with their leash tied to something. Penny (my Aussie) always stays on a rug in the kitchen while I eat. So I would put her leash on while she was on the rug, tie it to the doorknob, and leave her tied while I ate. As soon as I was done, off came the leash. It was exactly what she always does, just with a leash attached. That really helped speed the association for her that "leash attached to a stationary object = time to chill."

 

[corgipower]

what i do is put the dog on a sit stay or a down stay, whichever is easier for the dog, and then quietly tie the leash.

this assumes your dog can do a stay, which he needs for agility anyway to some extent.

however, before he is solid on being tied up, you might ask the trainer if you can keep your dog with you during these no-dog talks in order to avoid disruptions. explain that you are working on it, but that you prefer to work on it separately from agility class.

a lot of dogs get hyped up during agility, and an agitated, barking dog will only add to that. my agility trainer was always happy to work with me when my dog got agitated.

as for when to reward calm behavior, start with short intervals. gradually increase the time as well as the distance, as with any stay training.

i find for a dog that is nervous when left on a stay, it helps to encourage them. some talking them through it in the early stages of training. if i see them shifting their weight, moving their feet, looking antsy, i'll just quietly remind them that they are on a stay, maybe return to them and praise them the instant they settle back down.

 

[doberkim]

Have you tried putting him in a crate? Rah needs to be crated to keep him quiet for long periods. I can put him in a stay and do things and he is fine, but if I am goingto be gone for more than a few minutes, I just put him away in his crate and he is free to go to sleep.

 

[houndlove]

Thanks everyone!

Marlowe has never been a fan of crates. He tolerates his crate at home for short periods because I keep it as part of a routine that also includes him getting all his breakfast toys after his stay in it. But I'd be willing to bet that a strange crate in a strange place would not go over well.

Anyway, we went to practice last night and it was really nice to be able to work at my own pace and not have to share anything! I worked on two tie-ups, one when I had to sweep the floor (you get a 50% discount on rental if you sweep) and every time I swept past him, I gave him a treat. He seemed totally fine with it. I didn't put him in a formal stay, I just tied him and went about my business. He sniffed around on the floor a bit and watched me but didn't seem all that anxious. Later on, I did do a "stay" exercise, both sit and down. He did pretty well with that but his duration needs work (distance is fine). I also started turning my back to him as I walked away and keeping my back turned--the way I'd train the stay before (well, "sit-maintain", I don't have stay command) I'd always sort of very formally walked backwards, then either gave a "come" or walked back towards him and released.

Hopefully I can keep working on this and make some improvements to the "real life" situation where all of a sudden a whole bunch of people, including me, are walking away from him and keeping their backs to him and ignoring him utterly, in a strange place.

In totally unrelated news, I finally got him working tunnels! Even with a curve! And at full length! I was able to do sequences of all the obstacles we know (teeter, tunnel, jumps, table) and he just did great.

 

[corgipower]

I don't have stay command

i don't use a stay command. you really don't need one. a sit is a sit until you're told something else

sounds good!! i still would think you shouldn't try to tie him in class until he is solid when it's just you and him and then try with maybe one or two people and without the agility hype factoring into it.

be careful of those tunnels. now that you got him doing them, you might not be able to get him out of them

 

[smkie]

(delurking...)

I had a similar need and a similarly clingy dog. I trained a nice quiet tie just like I would a "stay" only she was attached to something and she could sit, stand, lay down, whatever (as long as she wasn't pulling at or chewing the leash or barking/whining). She's still attentive to where I am, just not at that frantic, "OMG, MOM, I CAN SEE YOU AND YOU FORGOT TO TAKE ME WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!" barking thing.

I started by tying her and rewarding her for being calm while I was right next to her. Then I tied her and walked away (maybe a foot or so at first) then walked back and rewarded immediately before there was any anxiety. Increase distance and longevity just like you would for a stay, only here you're rewarding calm, quiet behavior when he's tied to something.

It can be useful to practice tying at home, just so they get used to the idea of hanging out with their leash tied to something. Penny (my Aussie) always stays on a rug in the kitchen while I eat. So I would put her leash on while she was on the rug, tie it to the doorknob, and leave her tied while I ate. As soon as I was done, off came the leash. It was exactly what she always does, just with a leash attached. That really helped speed the association for her that "leash attached to a stationary object = time to chill."

that is what i would do as well..and boy howdy, nobody bawls like a coonhound

 

[houndlove]

lol not only is his bawl able to be heard by astronauts in orbit, his "Hey! HEY! OVER HERE! HELP! MOMMY!!!!" bark is absolutely grating, on top of the volume level. It actually sounds like a normal dog "bark" instead of his usual hound bay but its higher pitched and LOOOOUUUUDDD and just this regular unrelenting wall of sound: "Bark!...Bark!...Bark!...Bark!...Bark!...Bark!..." It's like a 4 year old going "Mommy!...Mommy!...Mommy!...Mommy!...Mommy!...Mommy!" When Marlowe was having his little episode in class, the mini schnauzer was doing the exact same thing but it was just this faint squeaking in the background, not distracting at all.

I'm, um, beginning to think I may have over done it with the "I have an independent breed so I need to make extra certain he feels attached to me" strategy.