Training -behavior advice

[pafla]

Ok I really need a plan.Tea and Rea had been great and we corrected a lot of problems but I am still not satisfied.I know since Tea is 8 years old and Rea 5.5 years old that they had a lot of time to reinforce bad habits but I really want to solve some of them.I want to buy a working line belgian groen and do so in some 6 months to year time.But there are still things that need to be corrected before bringing another dog home.I got Tea as first dog and she was fear aggressive,neurotic,and easily stressed from day first.It didnt help that I had no experience,no internet,dog traininig books or anyone to help me.I have done a lot of mistakes but also managed to solve numeros behavior issues with her.Rea is another story-she is high energy dog who is very independant and has high prey drive.I done better with her but still managed to mess certain things.Some I corrected some are still an issue.Both dogs passed three basic obedience classes and are working competative obedience and rally obedience in training club.

Now the list of things that I really need help with:

1-Tea barks at bell even when it is family members.I hate that bell-it actually makes some song and is driving everbody nuts.but my father likes it and wants to keep it.She barked less on previous bell-we have this one for a year.I tried ringing a bell and giving treats but that works only if the doors are open.She is also neurotic when we have guests.We didnt have guests until last year except like once in a year and she never get used to it.If they give treats she calmes down a bit but if they try to move around the house she barks and after some time Rea join in.If they laugh or raise voice she barks.I usually take her to another room and then play with them and train.She will still bark-growl sometimes.Muzzle doesnt work.Treats work when she is eating.Ignoring-she once barked for three hours until the guest left she was in my room alone.She sort of accepts my brother best friends but only because she knows them for years.My aunt age 90 moved with us three weeks ago and she still barks when she walks.She was fine in her house.She takes treats from her and accepts peting from her.But she cant move around without as and we help her walk aroun house she starts barking on her.If I do something with her she is fine but if I dont she barks.She also barks when she hears her voice but only sometimes.Again ignoring or restraining her doesnt work.If I tie her to me she is better but still I cant tie her all the time.

2-Tea loves going in club so the minute she figures out we are going there she starts whining.I tried preparing things an hour before she whined an hour.If I do something with her she is fine if not she whines and paces and circles and drive me and everybody else including Rea nuts.She whines for food.I feed dogs after morning and afternoon walk and the minute we got home she starts and doesnt stop until she gets food.If I send her in basket she whines there,if I close her she barks,if I dont give her food she whines and paces until she gets food-two hours was the time after which I gave up.The only time she will shut up is if I eat first.And only as long as I eat.She also whines in car.Talking helps but a bit.Exercise helps.She usually whines less after coming from training but that means- 1.5 hour of walk,then I go home and take things for club,then 20 minutes drive to there,then 15-20 minutes working before class so she calms down,then 1.5 hour of training,and 20 minutes home.

3-when I walk them if I stop to talk for longer than couple minutes both start barking on me until I ask for something and the minute I give relase command they are back to barking.I love walking and dont believe in chating with other owners in one place but still sometimes I would like to have five minutes in peace.They do the same thing in training when they are relased to play with other dogs.While I am happy that they prefer my company to company of other dogs they are still anoying.I have no idea how to correct this since ignoring doesnt help and any command is what they want.

4-Rea chase small animals.Long leash doesnt work-she knows she is leashed,stop,and no doesnt work,lie down doesnt work.She will stop if I throw a toy and ask it will she is running.She will lie down while she is running if she isnt running after animal.She will do basic obedience commands when tied even with loose cats around.She goes after squirel and chase it and then comes back.It lastes less then minute but still I cant stop her before she goes.Tea stops on command in any time.she sort of got better recently so every 10 time she will stop.Any ideas?She isnt loose in an area where she could get on road.She is intrested only if animal is runing away.She captured two squriels and let go of them on command both times.She didnt hurt them.

I walk them three times a day.In morning and afternoon long walks in wood they are free,and before sleep short walk.Normaly it is minimume of 2.5 hours to 4hours.Walks include training,and playing.Twice a week we go to training club which means another two hours outside.I reinforce NILIF as part of normal life.They are never alone in apartment.While my family doesnt train them or care for them they pet them and talk to them and give treats.So any advice how to change this behavior.I really need it I know my dogs are pretty demanding but I actually like dogs that are high energy and bond with owner a lot.But this behavior are part of my mistakes in begining of whole story.

 

[lizzybeth727]

First off, I would certainly not get another dog until you get all these issues solved with your first two. It sounds, too, like the other people in your household are unsupportive at best, and are probably undoing a lot of the training that you're working hard to acheive. You might consider not getting another dog until your living situation changes to accommodate it. It sounds like you're already spending a lot of time exercising and training the two dogs that you have, are you prepared for the extra time a third dog is going to take up?

1-Tea barks at bell even when it is family members.I hate that bell-it actually makes some song and is driving everbody nuts.but my father likes it and wants to keep it.

Try ringing the bell when the door is closed. Borrow someone in your house to be the bell ringer. I'd also suggest going to a part of the house where the bell is quietest, although that won't make a huge difference. If you're clicker training, you can click the clicker at the same time the bell rings. It will take many, many repetitions (we're talking dozens) to undo all the past experiences she's had, and you probably won't see any improvement for a while. But don't give up. Just try not to make it worse. Maybe also put a sign on the bell telling people not to ring it until she's desensetized to it, because if it catches her off guard she's going to be much more reactive.

She is also neurotic when we have guests.We didnt have guests until last year except like once in a year and she never get used to it.If they give treats she calmes down a bit but if they try to move around the house she barks and after some time Rea join in.

Have you tried tying Tea to you while guests are there? Then every time she looks at a guest, BEFORE she barks, click and give her a treat (or just give the treat if you've never used a clicker). Give more treats if they get loud or laugh, or do anything else that makes her bark. Give bigger rewards if she approaches strangers without barking, but don't force her to do anything. You could also save her favorite toy to play with while strangers are there (never let her even see the toy unless strangers are around, this will make it more valuable), or save a rawhide or chewbone to give her with strangers. Also give Rea rewards for not barking, especially if Tea is barking.

2-Tea loves going in club so the minute she figures out we are going there she starts whining.

The problem with this is that you have given her what she wants while she is whining. I know it's difficult, I'm just explaining why. She whined 30 minutes once before getting what she wants, so she learned that it works, she has to whine 30 minutes. So the next time, she whines 30 minutes knowing that that's what it takes, and when she doesn't get it, she continues whining for another 30 minutes. Now she learns that it takes an hour of whining before she gets what she wants. Before you know it, she's whining non-stop for 2 or more hours.

The best thing to do is to ignore the whining. At this point, however, it's going to be extremely difficult to ignore her for 3 or more hours, just because you have to feed, toilet, exercise, etc. at some point. So at this point, you might try a squirt bottle - the very second she starts to whine, squirt her with water. You don't have to get her right in the face, you don't have to drench her, you just want to squirt a little bit to interrupt the whining. As soon as she stops, give her a treat or some other reward that will prevent her from whining (food gives her mouth something to do; going outside and exercising might work; chew bones might work; etc.). The trick is, (AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT), don't let her see the squirt bottle. If she sees where the water is coming from, she'll learn that she can whine all she wants as long as you don't have the bottle with you. Consequently, you'll also have to carry the bottle around a lot if you think she might whine. Consistency is extremely important with this method - EVERY time she starts to whine, squirt her immediately.

3-when I walk them if I stop to talk for longer than couple minutes both start barking on me until I ask for something and the minute I give relase command they are back to barking.

Give the command as soon as you stop to talk, and don't release them. Practice your "down-stays." Every few seconds (or however long they can take), give them another treat for staying down. This way they can concentrate on doing a behavior ("staying"), get rewarded for it, and they won't be thinking about barking.

4-Rea chase small animals.Long leash doesnt work-she knows she is leashed,stop,and no doesnt work,lie down doesnt work.She will stop if I throw a toy and ask it will she is running.She will lie down while she is running if she isnt running after animal.She will do basic obedience commands when tied even with loose cats around.She goes after squirel and chase it and then comes back.It lastes less then minute but still I cant stop her before she goes.Tea stops on command in any time.she sort of got better recently so every 10 time she will stop.Any ideas?She isnt loose in an area where she could get on road.She is intrested only if animal is runing away.She captured two squriels and let go of them on command both times.She didnt hurt them.

I don't really understand what you want here. Do you want Rea to not chase animals, or to stop chasing when you tell her to? What do you mean "long leash doesn't work," she doesn't chase animals when she's on a long leash?

 

[pafla]

First thanks for your answer you gave me some very good ideas when I was really running out of them.I know getting another dog isnt an option until I solve problems with this two.This is why I really needed some help.My family doesnt want to help with animals-my brothers and father.They work a lot and when they are home they dont want to spend time working with them.However my mother and aunt dont work so I would try involving my mother in training.I am not sure when are my living situations going to change.There is possibility that it would happen before I get another dog and honestly that would be the best for everyone.I work from home so I have enough time for another dog,and since I love spending time training,playing and exercising my dogs that isnt a problem.

Ok now about issues-I will ask my mother for help with bell.My dad loves the dogs but is to tired to help but since their are holidays soon I will try to involve him to.I tried tying Tea to me when we have guests but she still barks.She is mostly quiet when I take her to another room and play or work with her.Chew bones work as long as she chews but when she is done she starts the barking.I use clicker for teaching tricks so I will try it to.

Squirt bottle sounds great.I used it for training my cat but never remembered I might try it with a dog.

The problem with lie-stay,sit-stay in park-they bark in command,they are in command but just like to pester.I will try to reward when they do what they are ask but quietly.Maybe they get the idea what I want.They are quiet if I give fast commands like sit-stand-lie-stand.But problem with this is they are are back to barking after realese command.

When it cames to chasing with Rea I want to teach her to stop on command.I done this with little one by giving her treats or throwing a toy or quick tug of war.She didnt have problem with learning that chasing is allowed until I dont say otherwise.But I have tried every advice I have got with Rea and non worked out.Long leash doesnt work beacuse when on it she simple stucks to my leg and looks miserable,she doesnt even try to chase.We also have to cats and she is fine with them.I brought home couple of times abandonded kittens and she was also ok with them until we rehomed them.This is except barking for attention actualy only problem with her.Tea is the one who is in for a big suprise.

Ok so should I try changing everything at once or thing by thing.Since a lot of this is connected-whining,barking for attention maybe I could work on that in same time? That lives only chasing animals with Rea as separate problem.

 

[adojrts]

The problem with lie-stay,sit-stay in park-they bark in command,they are in command but just like to pester.I will try to reward when they do what they are ask but quietly.Maybe they get the idea what I want.They are quiet if I give fast commands like sit-stand-lie-stand.But problem with this is they are are back to barking after realese command.

Ok so should I try changing everything at once or thing by thing.Since a lot of this is connected-whining,barking for attention maybe I could work on that in same time? QUOTE]

If you acknowledge the barking/whining on any level, it is reinforcing to the dog. If they are barking at you, don't even look at them, certainly don't repeat commands etc. It is the same as a child having a tantrum, if the parent focuses on the child, even in a negative way, the behaviour is being marked and reinforced.
In all situations, (barking at people in your home to wanting to chase and barking at other dogs etc) I would train the dog, so it completely focuses on the handler by teaching it a 'watch me', if they are focused on you, mark with a clicker and give a reward. Start in the home and progress to other situations.
There are several threads on Chaz on how to train Watch Me correctly.
You may also look into purchasing Control Unleashed which you can find at www.cleanrun.com. It will help you.

Good Luck
Lynn

 

[lizzybeth727]

Great advice about the "watch me" and barking.

I still don't understand about the barking - you tell them, say, down and stay. Do they bark at you while they're in the stay? Do they always bark at you in a stay or is it only when your attention is off them? If that is the case, you can practice stays while you do other things. I do this a lot with the service dogs that I train because their partners are not going to be able to pay attention to the dog every time they put them in a stay. Tell your dog "stay" and then look away. At first, make it a fairly quick look away, and then turn back to your dog and give him a treat for staying (the quiet is understood). Then look away for longer and longer so that they learn that they'll still get a treat even if you're not looking. Once they get good at that, you can turn away and focus on something else - we practice telling dogs to stay, and then writing, because you're focusing so much on your writing it's easy for your dog to figure out that you're not paying attention to him. As you continue practicing and your dogs get better, you can also practice talking to people while your dogs stay.

Hope this helps, keep us posted.

 

[pafla]

Ok the problem isnt in attention.They know watch me command.When I stop to talk they came to me and sit,stand,lie and stare at me.To them this is boring and they prefer moving or doing something.so after some time usually 2-3 minutes they start barking at me.They are looking in my eyes and barking.Since I do competative obedience and rally obedience I always rewarded them for giving me eye contact.If I ignore them they offer behaviors for which they get rewarded-like sit,lie,circle around me,bump.they even do a play bow and try to get me to play with them.They ignore other dogs.If I give them sit-stay or lie-stay command they do it but bark in command.So they are doing what they are told just not quietly.They dont do this in trainings.I tried turning around but they just turn with me.

I tried some of things that were mentioned.After morning walk I send them immediately to baskets,and live them there for 20 minutes.I done other things and rewarded them some 5-6 times with treat-verbal praise.Tea started whining three times during this.Twice she listened to no from me-I was in other part of house,but one time she just kept whining so I had to go there and say no and treat after a minute of silence.I am unfortanetly certain she will find a way around this.But for now I will try this.

She also started barking when my mother helped my aunt to walk to kitchen.I gave both dogs command-platz-go to your basket.Usually this means that she will just continue barking in basket if I am not there to say no.but this time I gave them they favourite toys and they were quietly playing with them.I take them away whem my aunt stoped moving.I repeated this when the aunt went to living room.

Since I have training today-if the rain doesnt get worser and Rea is coming with me I will see how little one does with whining.

I also asked mum for help and she said she doesnt have anything against it.

It is raining so there wasnt other people walking dogs to try talking and keeping dogs silent.

I think part of the problem is that they are the most vocal dogs I have ever seen.They just like to talk and have really wide vocabulary.And since we spend so much time with them they are always wanting to do something with us.It doesnt make difference to them whether we are playing with them,talking to them,petting them,or give them commands as long as we do something they are happy.If not they try to pester for attention and often we just give in-which in the end results in above mentioned problems.I will keep you informed about proggress or lack of it.Sometimes I really think it would be easier if they werent so smart.But :lol-sign: I really love dogs who are like that.it is the reason why I falled in love with belgian shephards.

 

[adojrts]

This is very interesting, you can compete in Rally and OB, and they are fine, which proves they know the difference. In my opinion, they are being demanding and wanting things their way. They have learned that there are different criteria for each different situation. I would also suspect that at some point in your training that you have rewarded the barking without realizing it. (the reward can be paying more attention to them or giving a reward and it can also be negative)
If possible, have someone with you when you are out on your walks, when you ask for a sit, down ( and don't let the dogs offer a behaviour, if they sit, ask for a down etc, you be in control not them) and when your dogs start to bark at you, dont look at them, don't say a word, but pass your leash to the other person and leave. And have that person take the dogs home, while you go somewhere else. The person that takes your dogs, has understand they are not to reassure our dogs or speak to them, they too are to ignore the dogs, just take them home. If when you come they bark at you, turn around without saying a word and leave again. In short, if they bark, they get what they don't want, you leaving and completely ignoring them. When you do come back and they are quiet, don't make too big a fuss over them, actually ignore them for 15 mins or so, then quietly start to work with them and asking them for behaviours etc.
In my opinion you have a relationship problem........

Oh yeah, when you leave, don't look back either, it has to be totally ignoring them. There is a fine line between ignoring a behaviour and when to reward for the desired behaviour and if we are not very careful we can be rewarding the behaviours that we don't want.

Have you done any self control exercises with your dogs? If not that would also work.

Good luck
Lynn

 

[lizzybeth727]

I think part of the problem is that they are the most vocal dogs I have ever seen.They just like to talk and have really wide vocabulary.And since we spend so much time with them they are always wanting to do something with us.

I think you're right that this is the problem, but the problem is still not with your dogs but with you and others in your household. One thing I've noticed is that many owners get so used to bad behaviors that they just don't notice them anymore. I had a client once, and she literally couldn't tell when her dog was pulling on the leash, because it just felt normal to her. Many people don't notice their dogs jumping. Same thing with barking. If they bark a lot, you probably have stopped noticing it as much as someone outside of your household would, and probably are inadvertently rewarding it occasionally. Remember to absolutely always ignore any vocalization - barking, whining, howling, etc. You might even get a friend or trainer to come and let you know any time you're not ignoring the vocalizing.

Tea started whining three times during this.Twice she listened to no from me-I was in other part of house,but one time she just kept whining so I had to go there and say no and treat after a minute of silence..

She's whining for attention. So when you went to her and said "no," you gave her attention, just what she wanted. You rewarded the whining.

To stop the whining, you'll have to figure out what they want, first. If they want out, that means that you've left them in the crate too long, and next time do a shorter session. If they just want attention, go to them and talk to them as long as they're being quiet. If they just have too much energy and are very excited, then maybe you should practice after a long exercise/training session.

She also started barking when my mother helped my aunt to walk to kitchen.I gave both dogs command-platz-go to your basket.Usually this means that she will just continue barking in basket if I am not there to say no.but this time I gave them they favourite toys and they were quietly playing with them.I take them away whem my aunt stoped moving.I repeated this when the aunt went to living room..

Great job here! Perfect way to keep their attention on something else and keep their mouths occupied at the same time.

 

[pafla]

Yes they know everything there is to know about different criteria and use this in theire advantage.In training they know there is time to work.Probably part of the solutions is that there is just me and them.The rules are always the same and by that for them simpler to follow.At home everyone has different set of rules and no amount of talking to other household members didnt correct this completly.For example my mother totaly ignores barking most time.My father starts yelling and close dogs if they dont stop.And my brothers change tactics.

I know they bark a lot and are to loud and is truhth that I probably notice just part of it.I know they are to loud but must time it is easier to pretend they are not.

The problem with advice about leaving in middle of walk and giving them to someone else are-the only person who I can ask this is my mother and she isnt capable of dealing with them alone.Second problem is that nobody obey leash laws I get heart stroke imagining someone walking my dogs who isnt proffesional.They dont obey other people.Especially little one.They will ignore even the simple commands as sit or lie,they may be lured if dealt with separetly to do command with treat.Rea easier than Tea.Tea is fear aggressive to both humans and dog and on leash pretty much not a dog you would give someone to walk if that person isnt trainer.I usually just keep them focused on me so Tea doesnt have a chance to even start getting upset.My mother can walk them but they bark at other dogs and people-than other loose dogs attack them.My mother doesnt know how to deal with dogs who are in the middle of a fight and honestly I wouldnt forgave myself is got hurt in proccess.What I can try is going with them separetly out and giving the one that is with us to my mother and leave for a couple of minutes but be close enough to get back if something goes wrong.Tea will bark and howl and try to go after me.for Rea I dont know.I am the only person who takes care of them-feed them,walk them,train them,play with them or in fact do anything with them.

My family is big part of problem.They once allow something,then next time dont.They repeate commands,give wrong commands,put a command in sentance and think dog will understand it.They have very limited understanding of the way dog learn,or even how to deal with dogs.I tried to talk about this but it didnt help much.They think my dogs are stupid I think there are stupid when it comes to dealing with dogs.they will sometimes do things right but most time I feal that limiting there contact with dogs is better.They just learn my dogs that there is different set of rules for everything.

I dont crate dogs.Crate training is basically unknown here.I send them to their baskets-they are bigger than dogs-they know that once send in a basket they are not allowed to go out until released.I am not sure I understand not correcting for barkin,whining? When I dont correct them they are far worser than when corrected.I reaward after verbal correction-and sometime of silence with either praise or treat.Since we leave in apartment ignoring them could possibly cause problems with other people in house.

I still didnt get a chance to practice talking to someone and ignoring dogs.but figured something out.I went to training yesterday with Rea and I talked with other people while she was in heel and she was ok.So this behavior shows only when let to play with other dogs in training or in park.

We had a visitor today.I went out with dogs and came back a couple minutes before she was leaving.they got sit command the minute they entered apartment.this is normal.Tea saw the women and started barking but not so loud as when someone comes home and she is in when person came.I send them to baskets and gave them chews,they totaly ignored guest and munch down treats.By the time she left they were already done with treats.so maybe part of Teas barking is territorial? Maybe she feals like she needs to defendas?

Yesterday I had practice in evening and avoid whining session from Tea by taking thing in last few minutes.she still started whining then.I allways live treats to dog who is staying but the dog has to wait in basket and is realesed to eat treats only when I live.so next time I will try giving chews when I start preparing to leave.She also started barking when I was out on my aunt.my father closed her.She calmed down after 15 minutes.And when I am home giving them toys for that time works.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I am not sure I understand not correcting for barkin,whining? When I dont correct them they are far worser than when corrected.I reaward after verbal correction-and sometime of silence with either praise or treat.

When they're barking/whining, they're saying, "LOOK AT ME! TALK TO ME!" In correcting them, you are looking at them, and talking to them, so it worked - barking/whining got them what they wanted. THAT's why they get quiet - because they've got what they want. When you ignore them, they think that maybe you can't hear their barking/whining, since it's not working to get your attention, so they get louder to see if that works. If not, they'll get even louder and maybe get out of their baskets or some other bad behavior. If, at any point, you correct them (and, in fact, reward them), you are teaching them that they have to bark/whine THIS loud to get attention, and that's where they'll start the next time! If you continue to ignore it, it will get pretty loud and really irritating, but eventually it will stop. If nothing else, they will get tired, or need to get a drink of water, and get quiet - THAT's when you give them attention AND treats, make it really exciting for them to get quiet.

Of course, it's most likely that someone else in your house will reward them for barking before they'll stop by themselves.

This is why I really don't think you should get another dog until your living situation changes (either you live by yourself, or the other people in your household learn how to not make things worse), AND you have some time (a few months, at least) to fix the existing problems with Tea and Rea on your own. I hope that you don't rush into getting another dog.

 

[adojrts]

When they're barking/whining, they're saying, "LOOK AT ME! TALK TO ME!" In correcting them, you are looking at them, and talking to them, so it worked - barking/whining got them what they wanted. THAT's why they get quiet - because they've got what they want. When you ignore them, they think that maybe you can't hear their barking/whining, since it's not working to get your attention, so they get louder to see if that works. If not, they'll get even louder and maybe get out of their baskets or some other bad behavior. If, at any point, you correct them (and, in fact, reward them), you are teaching them that they have to bark/whine THIS loud to get attention, and that's where they'll start the next time! If you continue to ignore it, it will get pretty loud and really irritating, but eventually it will stop. If nothing else, they will get tired, or need to get a drink of water, and get quiet - THAT's when you give them attention AND treats, make it really exciting for them to get quiet.

Of course, it's most likely that someone else in your house will reward them for barking before they'll stop by themselves.

.

Agreed!!

Also;

Quote;
Tea saw the women and started barking but not so loud as when someone comes home and she is in when person came.I send them to baskets and gave them chews,they totaly ignored guest and munch down treats.

You are reinforcing the barking at this point, bark at someone = attention and/or a reward.

 

[pafla]

Ok I understand now ignoring but as I said when I tried ignoring them when we have guests-I left them closed in my room Tea stopped barking only when the guest left-which means she barked for three hours.I really dont belive she would stop if closed.When I am not home and we have guests they are always closed-and Tea barks whole time.What did help is giving guests treats and for them to say hello to dogs and aftere that for me to do something with dogs or if guests are mine having dogs in lie-stay in room with guests with rewarding every now and then.But as I said Tea still starts barking when someone gets loud or moves.

I reawrded dogs for going to baskets and gave treats when they were in basket quiet for 1-2 minutes.We have guests for last year often and I tried ignoring and it didnt work.I think barking is her way of dealing with situation.Another way of making her stop is allowing her to curl in my lap and talk to her.This way she feels safe.It is barking for attention but not because she is jelause on guests but because she is afraid of them and there presence upset her.when we have visitors that she knows-my brother girlfriend,my friend,her mom she just simple says hello and goes to sleep in her basket.She will stop if she is occupied with something else and forget that we have visitors.Guests make her nervous.She will accept petting and treats to certain point but she is afraid of strangers.For first two years of life she wouldnt even take food from strangers.She was afraid of everybody and just growled and barked on people.An older men in our park always carried treats for his daschund and he tried making friends with Tea.For two years he offered almost every day different treats to her and she wouldnt take any.She eventually stoped barking at him at after some two years started accepting treats.after that point she learned to take treats from some people and today if person approach calmly she will take treats and accept petting from strangers.She is eight now and I still use every opportunity to socialize her with different people.

Whining when I go to practice is her way of dealing with stress.She gets nervous or excited easily and is hard to calm down.She isnt being spoiled she is just to excited to not show it some way.Doing anything calmes her down.a lot of both mental and physicall exercise helps to.Tea isnt the most balanced dog.She simply doesnt fit in that description.I got her as a puppy and she was from begining different.I am certain that I messed some things but part of it is simply her genetic makeup.And while she is smart and affectionate she isnt like most dogs I have met.We have done a lot of positive things but still when compared to other dogs she will never be a typical pet nor would she fit most households.I have hard time imagining another person willing to spend years training dog who shows aggression to everything and who would have enough patience to watch proggress in years time.She will never be completely socialized with people or dogs.And every time she feels afraid she will go back to aggression as solution.Desentization,socialization and keeping her occupied and firmly under control is only way with her.Rea is a totaly different dog.She may sometimes show pack mentality or certain unacceptable behaviors but in most things she is normal,average dog.Her high energy,independant nature,softnes for corrections and a bit reserved additude in some situations,and her need to question boundaries would probably be chalenge for some dog owners but I believe provided that a person had enough time for her,and accept that she needs to be handled gentle but firmly she would done well as a companion dog.


As I said before in best circumstances I would get another dog in a 6-12 months.And planned to use that time to work with them on things that I dont find acceptable.I want another dog but I am not in any hurry.If the problems with my dogs can be fixed in a year or a year and half I will get another dog in a year and a half.Six months to a year,year and half doesnt make much difference to me.Second there is pretty big probability that in that time I want be living with my family.If I would however then taking a third dog would be again evaluated.

Sending them to baskets before feading helps. Giving them toys when Tea barks on aunt helps.Putting them on leash and in heel position in park when talking does the trick.Thanks for advices they helped and if you have any other I will be grateful for it.

 

[jrs3936296]

You need good training series.

 

[pafla]

I said this already but since you obviouslly didnt read my previous posts.The dog trainers in Croatia use physicall force for solving aggression.Since I belive this harmful and cruel getting a private trainer is impossible.There is no such thing as behaviorists and there is no such thing as trainers who specialize in dealing with aggressive dogs.I work in dog training club at least twice a week and got some useful advice from those trainers.Some of the advices given in this thread helped to.If there was I wouldnt seek advice from people who didnt ever see my dogs and always lack part of picture.I would hire a proffessional long time ago.

Tea doesnt whine any longer before feeding.And she is better when I leave for training-so hopefuly she will with a bit more time stop completly.She also started to bark less on my aunt-she gets toys,treats when quite.In park they stop barking when I talk with someone-they are in heel-it works both on- leash and off-leash.Since there are holidays ahead us we will have enough time to practice with having guests.

 

[adojrts]

Ignore that post, its a Spam. You would think these people would give up, because most of us know those e books and programs are trash. But I guess, they do manage to sucker in some, or they wouldn't do it.

 

[pafla]

I checked his posts and yes he is just :spam:. Should have done it before.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Tea doesnt whine any longer before feeding.And she is better when I leave for training-so hopefuly she will with a bit more time stop completly.She also started to bark less on my aunt-she gets toys,treats when quite.In park they stop barking when I talk with someone-they are in heel-it works both on- leash and off-leash.Since there are holidays ahead us we will have enough time to practice with having guests.

Great! Sounds like you're making some good progress! Keep up the good work!

 

[pafla]

Thanks.Today I had an exam in club with Rea and Tea was left home it was the first time she didnt whine.I am actually suprised they made progress in such short time.Hopefully situation with guests will improve to.Rea also stop today in chasing squirell and returned.I let a really loud eh to get her attention.She increased times when she stops and returns.But I cant make a connection why is she now getting better.The only thing that makes sense is that in last couple weeks I have been spending some extra time with her training for exam.Maybe that made a difference even do in every other situation her recall is flawless.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I hope that you remembered to reward her BIG TIME for coming to you away from the squirrel. That's great.

Yeah, dogs sometimes do make a ton of progress the first week or two of training, but be sure that you don't get too confident or relaxed. Even though they're doing well now, they will probably regress some, so you should be ready for that to happen and re-train them. Stay dilligent!

 

[pafla]

I did reward her after she came both food and praise.But that usually doesnt make any noticible difference next time.For example in last couple months she started to get back 1 in 10 in the middle of chasing.Right now she cames 3 of 10 in middle of chasing.That isnt very good but still shows some progress.The problem is I cant figure out why she is getting better because I didnt change anything in that part.She sees prey she freezes-it lasts only a second and then she is off-I give her loud no or eh I dont recall her because I know chances arent good that she will come.She is extremly fast and totaly focused on prey.She jumps over trees,jump on tree after squirrels,climbes after them if tree isnt totaly straight,jumps over stream,she even jumps over 1.5 meter canal.Some of this things I doubt she would do if asked to do.She doesnt hear or see anything else.When I am able to stop her in middle of running she needs at least 10 meters to slow down before she turns around and goes back.Problems with this-it is selfrewarding,there isnt anything more intresting for her that I can offer,she is focused on prey and shuts down everything else.If you take in account all this I really cant figure why she is know getting better and if I cant figure it out then I cant found a way to make this reliable.Except leaving it to chance.And that is not my favourite way of dealing with dogs.
They are pretty much in a stop know.We done some progress but now they dont seem to move forward or backward.