Hi Pops (and everyone)
I got some clarifications on some things, and wanted to share them with everyone.
Here is what Pops said:
I didn't send a link to this place, but I did directly quote pops and sent it to the contacts I've made in the samoyed community. I will show you the responses I've received:
To clarify, each quote is from a different response from a different person. Names have been with held.
I got some clarifications on some things, and wanted to share them with everyone.
Here is what Pops said:
Sammgirl
the sammy at the bottom of your posts is a perfect example of how ignorance of function will adversely affect form. as beautiful as that big puffy coat is, it allows too much heat to escape which melts snow allowing it to become water soaked and lose it's insulating properties. compare it to the coats of actual dogs kept by Saami people. those dogs have a flat dense coat that traps heat well and shed moisture to maintain insulation. a true Saami dog wouldn't even be recognized as such by the AKC especially since they come in colors not just white. now i know the majority of sammys are not that exaggerated and alot is grooming but i have seen enough that were naturally powder puffs to know some of it is breeding.
FTR the sammys i have met are very nice dogs & i am not saying they are anything. what i am saying is one specific trait that is in some cases bred for is counterproductive to the breeds theoretical survival needs.
the sammy at the bottom of your posts is a perfect example of how ignorance of function will adversely affect form. as beautiful as that big puffy coat is, it allows too much heat to escape which melts snow allowing it to become water soaked and lose it's insulating properties. compare it to the coats of actual dogs kept by Saami people. those dogs have a flat dense coat that traps heat well and shed moisture to maintain insulation. a true Saami dog wouldn't even be recognized as such by the AKC especially since they come in colors not just white. now i know the majority of sammys are not that exaggerated and alot is grooming but i have seen enough that were naturally powder puffs to know some of it is breeding.
FTR the sammys i have met are very nice dogs & i am not saying they are anything. what i am saying is one specific trait that is in some cases bred for is counterproductive to the breeds theoretical survival needs.
I didn't send a link to this place, but I did directly quote pops and sent it to the contacts I've made in the samoyed community. I will show you the responses I've received:
To clarify, each quote is from a different response from a different person. Names have been with held.
There might be a bit of truth in that, JMHO...
I don't buy into the bit about insulating coats. The fluff he describes on
domestic Sammies is all guard hair. It traps some heat and reflects the sun
but it does an excellent job of shedding snow too. It's the dense undercoat
that really does the insulating and most show dogs have the majority of this
brushed out but left in the wild even a domestic Sam could survive and grow
back his wooly undercoat pretty quickly.
Here are some pictures of Samoyeds in their homeland.
Angus the samoyed on the Samsite
Samsite the home of Ziggy the Samoyed
domestic Sammies is all guard hair. It traps some heat and reflects the sun
but it does an excellent job of shedding snow too. It's the dense undercoat
that really does the insulating and most show dogs have the majority of this
brushed out but left in the wild even a domestic Sam could survive and grow
back his wooly undercoat pretty quickly.
Here are some pictures of Samoyeds in their homeland.
Angus the samoyed on the Samsite
Samsite the home of Ziggy the Samoyed
Here's a link with pictures of Samoyeds in Russia; as you can see the Samoyed in 1962 Russia looks remarkably like the Samoyeds of today.
Photo's of the Samoyed Homeland (circa 1962)
>>From the FCI-Standard
BRIEF HISTORICAL SUMMARY : The name Samoyed derives from the Samoyed Tribes in Northern Russia and Siberia. In Southern parts of the area they used white, black and brown parti-coloured dogs as reindeer herders ; in the northern parts the dogs were pure white, had a mild temperament and were used as hunting- and sledge dogs. The Samoyed dogs lived close to their owners, they even slept within the shelters and were used as heaters. The British zoologist Ernest Kilburn Scott spent three months among Samoyed Tribes in 1889. Returning to England he brought with him a brown male puppy called " Sabarka ". Later he imported a cream coloured bitch called " Whitey Petchora " from the western side of the Urals and a snow white male called " Musti " from Siberia. These few dogs and those brought by the explorers are the base for the western Samoyed. The first standard was written in England in 1909.>>
As you can see in the history; the white color was a "natural" in the Samoyed as far as the 1800, as well as mixed colors. The Kilburn Scotts thought the white/cream with the black lip and eyeliner and the black nose made a striking picture and that lead to the Samoyed we have today.
As for the coat, the Samoyed working in Siberia isn't groomed like the family pets we have today. Talk to Donald Duncan about the 20th century Samoyeds and the snow...he's done 2(?) Serum Runs from Nenana to Nome with an all Samoyed team.
Serum Run - Iditarod Trail Nenana to Nome
Photo's of the Samoyed Homeland (circa 1962)
>>From the FCI-Standard
BRIEF HISTORICAL SUMMARY : The name Samoyed derives from the Samoyed Tribes in Northern Russia and Siberia. In Southern parts of the area they used white, black and brown parti-coloured dogs as reindeer herders ; in the northern parts the dogs were pure white, had a mild temperament and were used as hunting- and sledge dogs. The Samoyed dogs lived close to their owners, they even slept within the shelters and were used as heaters. The British zoologist Ernest Kilburn Scott spent three months among Samoyed Tribes in 1889. Returning to England he brought with him a brown male puppy called " Sabarka ". Later he imported a cream coloured bitch called " Whitey Petchora " from the western side of the Urals and a snow white male called " Musti " from Siberia. These few dogs and those brought by the explorers are the base for the western Samoyed. The first standard was written in England in 1909.>>
As you can see in the history; the white color was a "natural" in the Samoyed as far as the 1800, as well as mixed colors. The Kilburn Scotts thought the white/cream with the black lip and eyeliner and the black nose made a striking picture and that lead to the Samoyed we have today.
As for the coat, the Samoyed working in Siberia isn't groomed like the family pets we have today. Talk to Donald Duncan about the 20th century Samoyeds and the snow...he's done 2(?) Serum Runs from Nenana to Nome with an all Samoyed team.
Serum Run - Iditarod Trail Nenana to Nome
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