Thoughts?

[SaraB]

Classic is an almost 2 year old dane. He randomly has these episodes where it almost seems as though flies are landing on him and he's trying to get them off. He will stand completely still (if you know Classic, that right there means something is wrong, LOL), and look back and forth at his sides, legs and back randomly licking/chewing different areas. He is coherent at the time, I will say his name and he will slowly saunter over while he is still trying to chase the "flies" away. His muscles are completely tense (I don't know if they tense up first or because he is so upset about the "flies") and you can tell he is just agitated.

There is no pattern to this, and it randomly happens once or twice a day. He is just recently raw fed (switched a month or so ago) and this has been happening since the beginning of last summer.

He has had other random symptoms that may or may not be related: randomly swelling feet (seemed to happen more after exercise) loosely diagnosed as lymphodema. His feet have not swelled for approximately two months.

I'm beginning to think that rather than tackle this as a health condition (heart issue?) that it may actually be a behavioral issue. But I figured I'd see what other people might think as my vet/boss is stumped.

Here's a quick video, you can see when I call him over he doesn't stop what he's doing but does respond. After the video was done he was still doing it while sitting on the couch.

YouTube - January 1, 2011 5:02 PM

 

[Giny]

That is a very strange behavior, I don't blame you to be concern. Some type of neurological symptom maybe? Hope it's nothing too serious, sending good vibes your way.

 

[Miakoda]

NO chance of fleas? Or even a single flea?

Our OEB, Chipper, used to do this. He was, ummmm, a few french fries short of a Happy Meal if you get what I mean. But once when he did this I found a single flea on him despite being on flea meds year round. He would also do that when he spotted his shadow and it's like he couldn't break his obsession/compulsion when he started looking at it and around for it.

I suggest showing your vet this video. He/she would be mightly interested in it.

 

[SaraB]

NO chance of fleas? Or even a single flea?

Our OEB, Chipper, used to do this. He was, ummmm, a few french fries short of a Happy Meal if you get what I mean. But once when he did this I found a single flea on him despite being on flea meds year round. He would also do that when he spotted his shadow and it's like he couldn't break his obsession/compulsion when he started looking at it and around for it.

I suggest showing your vet this video. He/she would be mightly interested in it.

I work at the vet... not only have they seen the video but they've witnessed it in person. LOL

No fleas.. not even a slight chance. I would've seen one by now seeing as though it's almost been a year since he started this. Also, my other animals would be exhibiting symptoms. Also, it wouldn't be just ONE flea because when the episodes happen he looks/licks all his legs rather than just one localized area.

Classic is a few fries short of a happy meal as well in other areas which is why I'm thinking its a behavioral thing. We've been battling stranger aggression since he was a pup. And no it's not fear, I treated it as fear for 16 months before me, my trainer, my mentor and my behavioralist all agreed that it can't be fear related aggression.

So ya. He's lucky he's so dang cute, that's all I have to say.

 

[JessLough]

Hmm, I am wondering if he is almost getting a tingly sensation (think pins and needles) and that is annoying/confusing him?

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Could be flysnap?

articles from members of the berner-l mailing list: Search Results

True fly snap syndrome is a psycho motor seizure that varies in severity to
mildly annoying to down right frightening. The dog responds to a varity of
unseen sensory stimuli including taste sight feel and hearing. I have a dog
with this syndrome and have seen him snap at unseen bugs smack his lips at
nonexistent goodies jump up and look for the mystery hand that appears to
have goosed him and start barking at nothing in the window. Over all his
behavior is not severe and so I do not treat it. There are dogs that
continuously have reactions to nothing and these dogs very well may need
treatment with anti seizure meds. Diagnosis is usually made by description
of symptoms.

Fly-biting

Fly-biting or fly-snapping are terms used to describe peculiar episodes where the dog appears to be snapping at imaginary flies. The episodes tend to occurr sporadically, but in some cases can happen frequently throughout the day. Usually the dog is sitting quietly when the spells begin. They seem to focus on the air around them and snap out several times. Usually this is done with a very "matter-of-fact" attitude, but rarely it is done with more emotion and growling. Very often, the dog will lick at the front limbs as well. The dogs appear to be normally conscious and aware during these episodes and can sometimes be distracted out of the episode by calling their name or throwing a ball for them. Some dogs become upset by the episodes and seek out their owner during them.

 

[SaraB]

Fly snapping describes the behavior, but it doesn't lead a diagnosis. Most fly-biting is due to seizures (his is not seizures as he is coherent during the episodes) or due to behavior.

It's also not a visual thing as the behavior continues when the lights are off.
We were originally thinking a tingling due to a heart condition, which is still possibility, but I'm leaning more and more towards behavioral cause.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

According to both those articles it is not a strictly visual nor always a behaviorally effecting episode (epilepsy).

If its a behavioral cause do you think it is a stress or boredom reaction?

 

[SaraB]

From talking with various DVM's if it's a seizure related issue, the dog is out of it. You are unable to get their attention, just like any other seizure.

I don't think it's stress or boredom. Honestly I think there's a few screws loose in this dog. LOL He's been reactive to people since he was 4 months old. The reactions are random and 8 out of 10 people he's completely fine with, you just never know which 2 he will choose not to like. I have worked my butt off making him a safe sane dog, but behavioral mod can only go so far. So if it's a behavioral thing, I think it's just him.

 

[Tazwell]

Gina is terrified of flies-- and she does exactly the same thing when she hears any kind of buzzing noise. Sometimes even hides under the couch.

Imaginary flies, perhaps?

 

[Kat09Tails]

From talking with various DVM's if it's a seizure related issue, the dog is out of it. You are unable to get their attention, just like any other seizure.

It's sounds to me like a mini seizure. They are not as severe (usually) as full blown epilepsy but still can cause some odd sensations and repetitive behaviors.

 

[Danefied]

Hm... from watching the video I don't think its seizures (in my non-professional opinion).
I tend to agree that it looks like he's having some sort of pins and needles type feeling and he's reacting to that. Which would also make sense with the random feet swelling.

The swelling may not necessarily be a heart condition either. I don't have the expertise to suggest what else it could be, but I'm leaning more towards something medical going on that may be exacerbating behavioral issues.
For example, in humans, severe anxiety can lead to a prickly skin sensation to the point that some people will dig holes in themselves thinking they have bugs under their skin. Restless leg syndrome also has a similar type feeling and I believe (not sure on this) that the legs can swell too. I know when I was pregnant, and my ankles and feet swelled, they also felt prickly, especially if I had been teaching (on my feet) all day.

I wonder if the stranger danger started b/c he was feeling the prickly skin thing and associated it with whichever strange person was around him at the time?

I know its not fun for you to deal with, but its also really fascinating, and I'm interested to see what you end up finding out.
(BTW, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm Ouesi )

 

[elegy]

during partial seizures, dogs can be aware and responsive. there is so much variability in seizures.

is the vet that you work for a member of VIN? if so, what about posting the video there? see if any neuro vets offer up ideas.

 

[LabLove]

It looks a lot like a partial seizure. If you can, try to get a referral to a veterinary neurologist.

 

[Saeleofu]

Most fly-biting is due to seizures (his is not seizures as he is coherent during the episodes)

Not true. Dogs can have partial seizures just like people can. Just today we had a dog in that was having a seizure - he was conscious, but he was definitely having a seizure. He was wobbly and twitchy but fully aware.

I second posting the video and other info on VIN.

 

[GlassOnion]

Yah, you can have a seizure and still respond consciously to things, it's just a matter of severity and cause.

Anyhow that's pretty darn neat! Wish I knew what was causing it. If you get it posted to VIN give me the link so I can spy on it.

 

[Doberluv]

PARTIAL OR FOCAL SEIZURES

Here's something that you might find informative. I hope whatever is causing this (I think it sounds like a partial-focal type seizure) can be determined. I 2nd the notion of seeing a neurologist.