This video scares the crap out of me.
- Thread starter Sweet72947
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i used to have a coworker who had a pit pup who was downright ugly from the tender age of tiny baby. he was 9 weeks the first time i met him and he was nasty. stiff and staring and low-growling and lip raising. he grew up to be a scary dog. she euthed him somewhere around a year for a physical problem (hemivertebrae) and i can't say i was all that sorry. she never took his temperament issues seriously and he was a bite statistic waiting to happen.
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Okay so I just watched the video. Not as horrifying as I was expecting it to be, frankly, but still not great. That dog at 6.5 is being EXTREMELY pushy, and who knows if all of that muzzle punching would be biting or just muzzle punching with the muzzle off.
Truthfully he reminds me a lot of my old dog Mike. I can't even count the number of times he would do the intimidating leaping and muzzle punching to get his point across to me. He bit me on a regular basis, but I luckily had the control over him that no one else got bit during the 8 months he was in my care. Even under my strict hand and training he was management, period, and not management that ANYONE should have to deal with. He was PTSed 8 months later when I realized that training could only bring us so far and that he was a huge bite risk, to myself and others, and what a horrible life he was living unable to feel comfortable in his own skin.
That's what I see in that pit bull. I truly hope that the owners don't think that by training with these people he will be "cured" and be a safe happy canine citizen. In cases like this it is best for all involved, especially for the dog, to PTS.
Truthfully he reminds me a lot of my old dog Mike. I can't even count the number of times he would do the intimidating leaping and muzzle punching to get his point across to me. He bit me on a regular basis, but I luckily had the control over him that no one else got bit during the 8 months he was in my care. Even under my strict hand and training he was management, period, and not management that ANYONE should have to deal with. He was PTSed 8 months later when I realized that training could only bring us so far and that he was a huge bite risk, to myself and others, and what a horrible life he was living unable to feel comfortable in his own skin.
That's what I see in that pit bull. I truly hope that the owners don't think that by training with these people he will be "cured" and be a safe happy canine citizen. In cases like this it is best for all involved, especially for the dog, to PTS.
It can happen. But I give puppies the benefit of the doubt unless I have proof that t is aggression. Because aggression in a young pup is not normal. I've seen it maybe three times over the last 8 years of working with dogs. Including in Nyx, where I believe it's an issue of hypothyroidism, and that it caused behavioral symptoms at an early age (perhaps onset being triggered by the stress of being shipped to me).
Hemivertebrae is congenital (as far as I know), so that was likely the cause of the aggression ~ he was probably in pain.
For a dog to be aggressive at three months and at six and a half years not have other physical symptoms of an illness? I suppose it's possible -- anything's possible -- but I would think it would be very rare. Which implies to me that at three months, he was most likely misunderstood.
Mind you, I don't disagree with the ideas that he should be euthed.
Hemivertebrae is congenital (as far as I know), so that was likely the cause of the aggression ~ he was probably in pain.
For a dog to be aggressive at three months and at six and a half years not have other physical symptoms of an illness? I suppose it's possible -- anything's possible -- but I would think it would be very rare. Which implies to me that at three months, he was most likely misunderstood.
Mind you, I don't disagree with the ideas that he should be euthed.
My brother had bought a Min Pin or we thought it was a min pin..anyhow the dog at 7 weeks of age latched right onto my nieces face for no reason what so ever.. My brother had taken the dog to the vets to find he had been badly bred for one and two it some sort of brain disfunction.. I truly can not remember it all right now but I know my brother was out the purchase price the vet bill and a dog.. The breeder would not comply and or replace the money.
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I see a dog that was been poorly raised, I don't believe that this dog deserves to be put down because of it.
It's hard to judge this video because we don't know what other methods have been used. Once a dog gets set into a certain behavior it's hard to get him/her to change and almost impossible if the dog is very very bull headed.
I do believe you should try everything before putting the dog down. Even if that means using a little negative reinforcement in the beginning to let the dog know its actions are bad. once the dog knows what he/she was doing is wrong then you can start rewarding when he/she acts the right way.
This was just one training session and by the end of the session the dog had made almost a 180 degree shift. It looks strainious on the dog but with quite a few training sessions the dog will understand what is the right way to act.
If this method of training does not work for this dog then the only option would be euthination and I would strongly recommend it esp. if the dog was taking it's aggression out on the owners.
I don't condone neg. reinforcement and would never use it unless I had tried everything else.
opcorn:
It's hard to judge this video because we don't know what other methods have been used. Once a dog gets set into a certain behavior it's hard to get him/her to change and almost impossible if the dog is very very bull headed.
I do believe you should try everything before putting the dog down. Even if that means using a little negative reinforcement in the beginning to let the dog know its actions are bad. once the dog knows what he/she was doing is wrong then you can start rewarding when he/she acts the right way.
This was just one training session and by the end of the session the dog had made almost a 180 degree shift. It looks strainious on the dog but with quite a few training sessions the dog will understand what is the right way to act.
If this method of training does not work for this dog then the only option would be euthination and I would strongly recommend it esp. if the dog was taking it's aggression out on the owners.
I don't condone neg. reinforcement and would never use it unless I had tried everything else.
opcorn:
I see a dog that was been poorly raised, I don't believe that this dog deserves to be put down because of it.
It's hard to judge this video because we don't know what other methods have been used. Once a dog gets set into a certain behavior it's hard to get him/her to change and almost impossible if the dog is very very bull headed.
I do believe you should try everything before putting the dog down. Even if that means using a little negative reinforcement in the beginning to let the dog know its actions are bad. once the dog knows what he/she was doing is wrong then you can start rewarding when he/she acts the right way.
This was just one training session and by the end of the session the dog had made almost a 180 degree shift. It looks strainious on the dog but with quite a few training sessions the dog will understand what is the right way to act.
If this method of training does not work for this dog then the only option would be euthination and I would strongly recommend it esp. if the dog was taking it's aggression out on the owners.
I don't condone neg. reinforcement and would never use it unless I had tried everything else.opcorn:
It's hard to judge this video because we don't know what other methods have been used. Once a dog gets set into a certain behavior it's hard to get him/her to change and almost impossible if the dog is very very bull headed.
I do believe you should try everything before putting the dog down. Even if that means using a little negative reinforcement in the beginning to let the dog know its actions are bad. once the dog knows what he/she was doing is wrong then you can start rewarding when he/she acts the right way.
This was just one training session and by the end of the session the dog had made almost a 180 degree shift. It looks strainious on the dog but with quite a few training sessions the dog will understand what is the right way to act.
If this method of training does not work for this dog then the only option would be euthination and I would strongly recommend it esp. if the dog was taking it's aggression out on the owners.
I don't condone neg. reinforcement and would never use it unless I had tried everything else.
opcorn:
Dogs don't view aggression as "right" "wrong". Aggression is a survival mechanism. Aggression is part of a fight or flight response to a percieved threat. So please explain to me how electrocuting a dog whenever it is exposed to a perceived threat (human beings) is going to make the dog see them as being less threatening?
What you are seeing in the video is not a "180 degree turnaround", it is a total and complete shut down of behavior. At this point the dog has been subjected to such high levels of stress that he has mentally shut down in order to cope. That is not training. It is not kind. It is not going to produce a stable well adjusted animal who be able to coexist safely with human beings.
This dog will not only continue perceiving humans as a threat, they have become a MAJOR threat because he now has a real reason to fear them. Humans = Torture. And one day, something is going to push him over the edge, he will snap out of the stupor the e-collar put him in and he is going to bite someone. Punishment does not work to correct reactive behavior in the long run. It only masks the symptoms. I just hope nobody gets killed down the road.
I love dogs, and while it is not this dog's fault he is this messed up (whether he was born this way or people shaped him into what he is) NO human being's life is worth the life of a biting dog. He is suffering. He's living a life of terror and anger. It would be safest for everyone, and kindest to him, to put him down. I've said it a million times, there are thousands of good, really good dogs, sweet dogs out there dying every day. Dogs that do not have bite histories. Why is it better to electrocute and prolong the suffering of a mentally deficient animal who is so stressed by contact with humans that he attacks them, instead of putting him out of his misery and adopting a relatively well adjusted dog on death row? A dog that will actually enjoy it's life as a companion animal?
Edit: Yikes about your bro's minpin Altos. That's just terrible, and really sad that the breeder wouldn't do anything about it. Some states have puppy lemon laws, you might look into whether his state does. I don't know what the statute of limitations might be on something like that but if he still has copies of the vet bills...
Like Romy said, dogs don't know right and wrong or good and bad, they did not teach a dog that biting was wrong they just taught him that biting hurts him a lot. training dogs does not teach them "this behavior is wrong" it teaches them that doing one thing works and doing another thing does not, or that doing something one way works better than doing it another, they will try and do whatever works best for them and makes them feel the best, the fastest.
The shift in that dog was only a shift in his behavior, inside he feels the same if not more distrusting/scared/whatever he is towards people. IMO he's a time bomb waiting to explode. People are just oh so happy when their dog behaves "appropriately" they seem to forget what is going on in his head, this dog still really wants to bite that guy, they did not change that, they simply made him too frightened to bite. I still say that it will only take someone to push him too hard (perhaps give him a hug or on the opposite end start yelling at him and showing threatening body language) and then he will snap. All his initial fear and anxiety that he has always felt about people, plus the stress and fear that these idiots created, that is the stress of knowing that one wrong move, while in his aggressive state of mind could cause him pain, put on this dog over any length of time could be plenty to push him over the edge. Maybe it could be something like a simple lapse in memory about the pain that occurs when you try and bite because he'd gone so long without being punished.
I think it's just a matter of time before that dog has to be put down, I think all these people did was hold it off for a little bit and electrocute a dog for a while, maybe made him more distrustful and wary of people, good job.
The shift in that dog was only a shift in his behavior, inside he feels the same if not more distrusting/scared/whatever he is towards people. IMO he's a time bomb waiting to explode. People are just oh so happy when their dog behaves "appropriately" they seem to forget what is going on in his head, this dog still really wants to bite that guy, they did not change that, they simply made him too frightened to bite. I still say that it will only take someone to push him too hard (perhaps give him a hug or on the opposite end start yelling at him and showing threatening body language) and then he will snap. All his initial fear and anxiety that he has always felt about people, plus the stress and fear that these idiots created, that is the stress of knowing that one wrong move, while in his aggressive state of mind could cause him pain, put on this dog over any length of time could be plenty to push him over the edge. Maybe it could be something like a simple lapse in memory about the pain that occurs when you try and bite because he'd gone so long without being punished.
I think it's just a matter of time before that dog has to be put down, I think all these people did was hold it off for a little bit and electrocute a dog for a while, maybe made him more distrustful and wary of people, good job.
