The "holistic dog" movement

Discussion in 'Dog Health Care' started by *blackrose, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    Where do you stand on the issue?

    It is actually really starting to scare me some of the things I hear come out of people's mouths. The "holistic dog" movement is taking off full force and people are feeding things and refusing preventative actions based on false premises. And heaven forbid if you disagree, because then you are just a money grubbing, traditional idiot who is going to kill your dog with all of these processed, medicated things.

    Did you know you don't need to vaccinate your puppy, because they have maternal antibodies? And that your dog, in its entire life, only needs one set of each vaccine to have antibodies forever?
    Did you know that feeding a raw diet prevents fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes from biting your pet and transmitting diseases? Oh, and it also prevents intestinal parasites. (Someone please tell this to feral cats.)

    I just...don't even know where people's minds are anymore. I'm all for limited vaccines, limited, safe drugs, and a proper diet...but COME ON. People are setting their dogs up to contract completely preventable diseases and parasites and they don't even know it, because they think doing "natural" things will prevent everything.

    Am I completely off base? Am I the one that isn't with the times? Or have other people noticed this too?
     
  2. MicksMom

    MicksMom Active Member

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    Welll, they do, but only for the first few weeks of like. ;)

    I think there is some truth to this-the healthier the animal, the less likely they are to be infested with fleas and ticks. A healthy dog will still pick up a few, tho.

    But, I'm with you- some people are way over the top about this.
     
  3. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    You know, the pendulum swings. I'm all for things like reduced vaccine protocols, but things are getting a little too far away from center for my tastes at the moment. I suspect that when we start having significant disease outbreaks, it might swing back towards the middle a bit.

    I think it's a combination of forgetting the past, confusing correlation with causation, being lucky, the (mis)information superhighway, and a diminishing tolerance of risk that seems to be getting really entrenched in society.

    There's an awesome book called "Dog Food Logic," and if for nothing else it is worth a read for a really, really excellent discussion of how our brains are wired to make decisions (hint: not logically, and none of us are immune) and how to evaluate claims and evidence.
     
  4. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I feed partial raw. I also vaccinate my dogs and will continue to do so as me and my vet decide. I also will continue to vaccinate myself as me and my doctor decide. I would never ever do no vaccines. I think it is very risky. I also would never do yearly vaccines but that bothers me a lot less than no vaccines.

    Not sure where that makes me stand.

    I think a lot is the internet day and age. You can find all sorts of information and maybe some of it is true, lol. ;)
     
  5. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    Same thing is happening with human healthcare. I feel like all I ever say over and over and over again is, "everything in moderation." I'm a definate "middle of the road" person.... And that pretty much applies to everything.
     
  6. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    I don't vaccinate adult dogs and I don't use flea/tick prevention. I don't use medications unless where necessary and especially avoid steroids like the dickens.

    I do year-round heartworm prevention and that's about it. I'm happy with my dogs' health and comfortable with what we do. I would not be comfortable with a more "traditional" approach.

    I'm not bothered much by what other people do, if they think they're doing what's best for their pets then I'm fine with that.
     
  7. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    why are people worried so much about what others dog with their dogs or children? I'm sure the holistic people get sick of hearing about how if they don't subject their dogs or kids to the same stuff more western med people do, they're killing the world and all that other stuff. I find most to be as swayed by propaganda as those on the "other" side. I see such BS spewed by both sides. It's democrats and republicans, neither can see just how alike they really are and dig in for the long fight to the end no matter what and quite a few really have no idea what they're talking about, they just spew talking points given to them by someone else.

    It's not like our animals or people are a pillar of health in the world anyway. When I see a typical American doing something, you bet your ass i'm probably doing something different :) No way I want to end up like them.

    Not everyone has the same risk-reward values. Some are willing to accept things others are not. Live and let live and do what you think is best.
     
  8. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Because herd health and disease reservoirs. Your choices about your dogs and children CAN affect my dogs (and children if I had them).
     
  9. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I'm all about moderation and (like with humans) feels the NO VACCINATIONS EVER SO NATURAL movement has gone too far.

    I vaccinate for life threatening ailments and always will (parvo, distemper, lepto etc..)
    Bordatella, lyme etc... I don't consider worth doing, so I don't.

    In months where he needs it I use REAL flea/tick/heartworm preventative. Because I don't consider the risks of heartworm/flea/ticks (which can be life threatening) worth the possible side-effects of the preventative.

    As for the food issue, I do raw when I can, I do grain-free kibble when I can, depending on which my dog does best on. If he looked/felt best on proplan or whatever, I'd be feeding that.
    Fact is, he personally does BEST on grain-free food, so that's what I feed. Has squat to do with what's "natural"

    I will always trust my vet when it comes to health concerns a million times more than dog people on the internet or any kind of hollistic specialist That is a fact. Maybe not for nutrition (hey science diet hey) but for his general health you bet your bottom I am trusting my vet that went to school and does what she does everyday with scientific studies and schooling behind her more than somebody whose cures don't have anything solid to stand on.

    I think the all natural problem will fix itself when the pendulum turns and people will remember why we started vaccinating in the first place when all this crap comes back swinging.

    I think there are plenty of ways to do the whole natural dog holistic thing CORRECTLY AND SAFELY (titers etc...) but people don't. and that's a problem.
     
  10. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    (For the record, I do limited vaccines, no FT prevention unless I'm concerned about exposure, have no issues with raw feeding, and I don't like over medicating.)

    ^ This.

    I guess I have less issue with people making decisions based off of research and fact than just jumping on a band wagon and spouting off second hand information that has been so run through the telephone line that it's far removed from the original statement.

    I also guess my other problem is that I care too much. I've had to speak with people who had no idea the disease their dog is now dying of was preventable. Or that it was preventable, but they thought they *were* preventing it and in fact were not. And that people think all people in the medical field are just money grubbing bad guys who want to take you for all your worth.

    Of course, there is also the other side. I'm half convinced my childhood dog had his first seizure due to an adverse reaction to a medication, and had I actually done research on said med instead of just relying on the old-school vet my parents used, I never would have used it.

    But...when people just blindly follow one extreme or the other without doing their own investigating...it bothers me.
     
  11. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    I kind of just take the same approach with my pets that I do with myself. My coworkers were like, shocked and appalled that I'm not up to date on my tetatnus vaccine, and that I lied and said I was when I had to go to urgent care for an infected cat bite. I just weigh risk vs benefit? Like, I'd rather take the risk of getting the flu, I'm not getting the vaccine.

    I don't know. I guess I've just never had a reason to consider doing things differently. Personally, I feel like a good diet goes a long way for preventing/managing a lot of things (talking to you, diabetic and kidney disease cats).
     
  12. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Flu vaccine is a little bit different than tetanus. Imo

    I don't really care what people do. I do think it's funny how fast some things get passed around as absolute FACT when god knows where it started. And I'm not saying I'm immune to this either.
     
  13. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    This.
     
  14. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

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    I try to abide by the law (regarding Rabies) to the extent that it isn't very likely to harm my pet. That being said, I currently own two pets not current on Rabies. Rascal has a history of cystitis (and blocking), so we try to avoid doing things that will stress him/his system. Buzz isn't healthy enough, and hasn't been since he was "due."

    I give other vaccines as I deem necessary. I feel lucky I don't have to rely on herd immunity, but there are some who do. For that reason, I vaccinate.
     
  15. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    Not really. I mean sure there is a risk, but the likelihood that your child will be harmed by your own decisions dwarf any risk they'll be affected by mine. Yet so many spend more time worrying g about what everyone else is doing.
     
  16. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    I know....

    Just 2 examples.
     
  17. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Yes, really. As evidenced by the polio and whooping cough outbreaks that haven't happened. :/

    We haven't reached a critical mass in dogs yet, but I think it's pretty inevitable that we'll start seeing some serious parvo and distemper outbreaks due to people who go beyond minimal vaccines into no vaccines territory because ???? (ETA: Talking about puppies not getting vaccinated ever here, not adult dogs.)
     
  18. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Except, take whooping cough for example...outbreaks of it are not new. There is a lot of media hype talking about how its because of lower vaccines now or the anti vaccine movement but often older doctors will tell you they never stopped seeing it over the years. Diseases do also naturally ebb and flow. I know there was a whooping cough outbreak in Texas oh, about 5 years ago now? We were down there for vacation. My niece and nephew both caught it, they are both fully vaccinated. My children arent and didnt. Does that REALLY mean anything...nope, way too many variables to be considered scientific for sure.

    I dont want to fully go into everything because I am just not going to agree with the majority here and I am confident in the research I have done (not just reading stuff on the internet ;) ) the doctors and vets I discuss things with etc.

    I think there are definite pros and cons to all sides and it comes down to what you personally feel comfortable and safest with. Yes, definitely PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH...and be analytical...dont just take someone else's opinon...question EVERYTHING. But in doing that, people are going to get different answers.

    As far as the pendulum swinging too far to holistic side....well the vast majority of dog owners in real life (not on forums or super into them) are still very much on the other side for sure.
     
  19. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    People will believe what they want to believe pretty much regardless. It's the way our brains are wired, really. We're even wired to accept evidence that supports us and reject evidence that doesn't, regardless of the quality of that evidence. It's really fascinating stuff.

    We've had it pretty easy for a long time as far as infectious diseases go both in humans and animals. If we're going to go all anecdotal I can say for sure that all through the years there are geographic pockets (on national, state, and local levels) where people don't vaccinate puppies due primarily to economics and those areas see a LOT of parvo. I think recommended vaccine intervals for adult dogs will continue to get longer and longer but dang, the whole not vaccinating puppies at all thing I just don't get and never will.
     
  20. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    OH I should add...my dogs are currently current on EVERYTHING and I am pissed lol. They were just supposed to get rabies (they had their puppy shots, I do follow Dodds protocol for them and they are currently 2 1/2 and 5 1/2). DH brought them in, did not listen to what I told him, forgot the note he asked I write, did not get the text I sent and the vet either ignored or forgot all the times we discussed vaccines (and that she actually agrees with my schedule and follows it herself for the most part with her dogs) and gave them DHPP, rabies, and bordatella.
     

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