The general public isn't helping!!

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Domestika, Oct 17, 2008.

  1. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    Now THAT is a very good idea! I hadn't thought of that...wonder where I could get something like that. Then at least people might not roll their eyes at me when I say I'm training her. They might assume it's something a little more "legitimate" than...just wanting to have a well behaved dog. :D
     
  2. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    She isn't isolated from being handled at all. She is mauled on a daily basis when I have her at work. And, like I said, she does get handled on the street routinely.

    Maybe you missed the main point of my post... I'm not frustrated or disappointed with my dog's behaviour. Obviously she's young...why would I expect adult behaviour from her? Heck, most ADULT dogs don't sit reliably and act calmly while being petted. The frustrating part is trying to enlist the help of people on the street and having them actually reinforce bad behaviours in her.

    I'd like more control over the people she interacts with, not her. She's doing a very good job. :)
     
  3. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    This is basically what I do now, though I assume that if I'm making the choice for her (preventing her from jumping by holding her collar) she's not learning to control herself or make the decision herself. Of course, we're talking about a baby so I'm not expecting adult levels of self-control, but she has to start somewhere.

    But of course I do want people to interact with her and jumping is just rude so I do hold her collar to keep her feet on the ground.
     
  4. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    Yep, that's what I do. I decide who she does and doesn't meet. It's not always convenient for me to stop mid-walk and let someone fawn over her, as much as I'd like to. Sometimes I'm in a rush, or I just don't want to interact with the person. And I don't want her to learn that she gets to stop and greet every single person she ever comes across. I don't want her to get upset or frustrated when she has to walk past someone without stopping (which she does right now). Eventually she needs to learn that sometimes she will get to stop and say hi and other times we're just going to keep walking.
     
  5. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    No, it wasn't your post which prompted my warnings about avoiding people. It was other posts. I just am one of those trainers obsessed with socialization. It's like if one does nothing else with their dog, at least socialize the living daylights out of it.

    I know what you mean about "training" other people vs. dogs. But instead of putting the brakes on them, I found it more effective to get them interested in what I was trying to achieve, explain it a little bit and enlist their help. They seemed so much more willing to sort of join in and "follow directions" that way. I found that more people than I thought would be, were actually interested in a little explanation and feeling like they were needed to help. Most people like dogs and those who come up and want to visit can be of use to you in your training practice. LOL.
     
  6. Angelique

    Angelique New Member

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    Really sounds like you are on the right track! :)
     
  7. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    My dogs all learned that but when they were very young like yours, I really needed lots of opportunity for visiting, especially since I've lived here where I do, where there just aren't that many people. LOL. But as they learned their lessons in walking nicely on the leash and "let's go"....all that fell into place.
     
  8. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    Oh god, I wish Nova cared about food when people were around. She's like "What? What is that you're trying to shove in my mouth? Disgusting!" She'd much, much rather chew on a hard or arm. :D

    I hadn't thought of getting people to kneel down to pet her. She's pretty tiny still. I can see why she jumps! People are waaaay up high! Might be kinda hard to get compliance from the public since it'll rain here every day between now and late April...wet knees aren't cool. But maybe we'll try that a few times and see how it goes.
     
  9. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Maybe it's geographical...Where I live and where I take my dogs, JQP doesn't wanna hear the explanations. Mind ya, I've had a lot of fun with the kids who want to pet my dogs and they've been very enthusiastic as I explain to them the dos and don'ts of interacting with dogs, and explained to them about the training I'm doing. But the adults...They just don't care about all that, and after many losing attempts at engaging them (I mean, c'mon...I'm a teacher...) I switched to being much more direct with them - either my dog behaves or you don't pet him. That approach has gotten many more people to actually become interested and helpful.
     
  10. Angelique

    Angelique New Member

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    Yep! :lol-sign:
     
  11. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    There's nothing rigid about trying to be consistent. I know what she's capable of. I don't beat her when she gets it "wrong". I have expectations of her behaviour and I try to be kind and patient while she works it out. She's very smart. She's easily trainable with consistency.

    My beef was that people in public are not helping me be consistent. The inconsistency of how people interact with her (despite clear instruction from me) is making it harder for her to learn.
     
  12. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    Ok, I have no idea how I gave that impression. I should re-read my post... I am not worried about her jumping up! She's a puppy! She's going to jump!

    However, I would eventually like her to stop. And this will happen a lot sooner if people are more consistent with her. Which means that people need to listen to me when I tell them not to pet her when she's jumping.

    That's it. That's the whole issue. I'm not "worried" or frustrated or any of that. I need to re-read what I posted...
     
  13. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    Yeah, we do walk away from people who are just too daft to get it. Ideally, I would want my dog to be able to socialize with everyone who comes up to interact with her, but if I see someone's just intent on teaching her bad habits (ie. encourages her to be mouthy by putting their hands all over her face, or starting to get physical or wrestling with her) then I walk away. Like "Ok, say bye Nova. Gotta keep going..." and we just walk.

    It takes a minute to figure out who is and who isn't going to be helpful and I don't have a problem walking away when they aren't. I just wish more people were!

    It's like people don't "get" training, I swear. So many people will be like "Oh, she has to perform amazing feats (sitting) in order for me to pet her....nevermind..." Geez, people. Just wait the minute and a half she acts like a nutcase and then you can pet her all you want!
     
  14. Domestika

    Domestika New Member

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    Yeah, "Let's go" is something we've done from the start. It's the only time I'll actually pull her a bit on the leash. "Let's go" is non-negotiable. I'm going and she's coming with me, period. I think that'll come in handy down the road when her brains are working more and she's less excited about each and every single person who comes near us.

    I have a dog who ignores people/dogs/whatever on "Leave it". As in "whatever you're getting interested in, leave it alone", which is pretty handy. Not really sure how to teach that though...he kinda just picked it up on his own. I guess just say it the moment they shift their interest in something, to start.
     
  15. TheGoldenRetriever

    TheGoldenRetriever New Member

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    LOL Domestika .... people are just way harder to train than dogs. :D
    ^^^ Yes, exactly!! People like to feel needed and generally respond very well to sincere requests for help. As a female I have always found this to be especially true of men ... they never seem to refuse requests for help.

    For the few people who don't respond well to requests for help, oh well .. Nova can learn from them that's there's all kinds of humans and some are jerks. :lol-sign:
     
  16. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Yes, this is how the process would go for me: First, someone would ooh and ahhh and want to come closer to see my pup. I'd get a very down-trodden look on my face and slump one shoulder in near despair. I'd say with the tone of almost giving up, *sigh*....I am trying to get this pup to stop jumping up (or stop chewing on people, whatever the case would be). (making sure I had their eye contact) Could you help me for a moment? I'd wait, standing back until they answered. They would more times than not, stop in their tracks because I had this real look of exasperation and hopelessness on my face. Now, how couldn't they pity me? And many people were really into it. So, they'd say, "sure...what sould I do?" I'd explain. "If you would only look at or pat my pup when he is on all fours (or sitting) and if he puts his feet on you, stand up and turn away from him without paying any attention. And then when I say, turn back around and try again. Squat down to his level so he doesn't feel like he has to jump so much." And they'd do it...sometimes with a mistake but it still helped a little bit and gave my pup a chance to interact with another human.

    I know it's difficult. I have the same problem with people and my Chihuahuas and their licking. For me, they'll stop when I say, "enough." But other people say, "Oh, it's okay. I don't mind." I would say that each time the dog licks after being told "enough," he/she should be set down on the floor and ignored....every single time and immediately. But other people tell the dog, "no" but keep on paying attention and loving them. I don't bother making an issue out of it. It's not worth it to me because the licking doesn't bother me so much as they will stop for me when I say "enough" so if these people really don't mind, oh well....it's not the worst behavior in the world. And in fact, it's really the only behavior "problem" they even have beside yapping. They stop that too on the cue, "enough." Oh, and begging and getting in the way and getting on my chair and taking dirty clothes out of the hamper and stealing socks. And yesterday, chasing after a herd of escaped cows that were running through my pasture....about 10 of them! But that's all. :rofl1:
     
  17. maxfox426

    maxfox426 My dog tickles my soul

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    ^^^ I've found this works very well. I bought an Outward Hound pack and put it on Morgan when I took him to band camp in August. I wasn't even intending it to be a training thing... I just wanted him to carry all of his own stuff so I didn't have to. :lol-sign:

    However, it proved to work out great, because for the first time ever, people actually ASKED me if they could pet him, and I could answer with yes or no depending on Morgan's behavior at the time. If he was waiting patiently the way he was supposed to, then "yes". If he was being a pain in the you-know-what, I could say "no, sorry, he's in training and needs to calm down first" and people were okay with that.

    I also had to leave him on a tie out and go work with kids a few times now and again (never too far away, I could still see/monitor him) and if he was wearing the pack, people would leave him alone. If the pack was off, people were more likely to wander past and visit with him.



    I hope I'm not being overly repetitive. :) I saw Bax's answer and skimmed the rest of the thread to get here. :p
     
  18. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    We definitely had this problem with Strider, and no amount of explaining the he was going to be a HUGE dog and that no, it's not okay if he jumps on you ever got through to them.

    In the end, I decided to just let him go for it because him being socialized and loved up by strangers at that age was way more important than manners. Then...magically, when he was about 4 months old, he was suddenly way too big for jumping up to be cute anymore. Imagine that!

    So, once he reached his magical "too big for jumping up" size, people stopped encouraging it and it only took about a week to break him of the habit because he already knew he wasn't allowed to do it to us, and being taller he didn't really need to jump up to get attention. This probably won't work with every dog, but it worked out that way for us.
     
  19. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Fortunately with my Doberman, Lyric, he wasn't apt to jump up on people just by his nature. He was more reserved right from the start. And he almost naturally, without much prompting from me would plop into a sit....as though he were more comfortable that way for visiting. He jumped on me a little bit at first, but got over that really quickly. But other pups I've had....and the Chi's were a little more that way and still are apt to put their little feet up sometimes...but not anything too much.

    That makes sense. It sounds like it worked out. They do eventually become civilized, don't they.
     
  20. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    Just try to quickly explain to the approaching person that you are working on her training and ASK them if they would be willing to help you real quick and explain you want your dog to sit before she pets the dog.

    People sometimes just don't understand, but I've found that if I offer the above brief explanation, people are jumping in line to "help."
     

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