The Crisis of Pet Overpopulation
- Thread starter dandandat
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Red_ACD_for_me, had you forgon wanting an ACD and decided the rescue any old mut from a shelter, the reputible breader would not have brought another dog into this world and a an unwanted dog would have been given a chance at a happy life. Instead the unwanted dog is stuck in a shelter and will be put down because no one wants him.
For every reputuble puppy breed and then placed in a home of a dog lover, there is one dog in a shelter who will be put down because that dog lovers home was closed to him.
For every reputuble puppy breed and then placed in a home of a dog lover, there is one dog in a shelter who will be put down because that dog lovers home was closed to him.
FYI........I just put to sleep my "rescued" GSD mix "Bandit" in March and five years ago I put to sleep another "rescue" Lab/pitbull mix Baron from the pound. I also have a "feral rescued" cat. If I want a well bred "PUREBRED" to use in coformation, agility, protection, schutzhund, etc. A rescued ACD was not in my cards. Eventually I may adopt again but I prefer a "purebred" to come from a very reputable breeder who is breeding QUALITY dogs, temperament, genetic health testing etc. And another thing, my ACD's breeder breeds twice a year so her litters are planned and well thought out, I waited over a year for Caiza. This isn't a case of just breeding any two dogs together just because. You can argue with people on Chaz all you want, we already know the facts about the OVERPOPULATION issues and until they make it harder to breed by acquiring a license to do so the problem isn't going to go away by you trying educate the already "educated" on here.
dandandat - I am assuming the preservation of healthy purebred dogs, many of which are still used for very real purpose to aid people doesn't matter to you? What about Guide Dogs for the Blind? They breed a very specific line of dogs with a very specific purpose to help people. Any old dog won't do in this situation. Should they stop breeding? Should blind people go without their guide dogs until every dog in the shelter has a home and by that time all the valuable lines for guide dogs will be gone.
It's easy to look at this in black and white, but the truth is, is that breeding dogs has many very gray areas. Reputable breeders with purpose are not the problem. They should not be made to stop breeding. Purposeful breeders have a goal and they are not breeding for a money market. You need to turn your attention on what actually CREATED the pet over-population problem and put your energy there.
It's easy to look at this in black and white, but the truth is, is that breeding dogs has many very gray areas. Reputable breeders with purpose are not the problem. They should not be made to stop breeding. Purposeful breeders have a goal and they are not breeding for a money market. You need to turn your attention on what actually CREATED the pet over-population problem and put your energy there.
Personally, I think the predictability in purebreds is so important. That's why they became purebreds in the first place, because people wanted to consistently produce a dog with certain attributes. This comes in handy for working dogs, such as dug sniffers and herders, but also for just plain ole family pets. People want to know what they're getting into. I think it would keep more pets out of the pound if people had predictability than from people not breeding dogs responsibly anymore.
If someone had gotten my little shiba inu, they would be in for quite a surprise! Someone would probably get him thinking, oh he's small and cute, he'll be good for my apartment. Yeah right!
If someone had gotten my little shiba inu, they would be in for quite a surprise! Someone would probably get him thinking, oh he's small and cute, he'll be good for my apartment. Yeah right!
I beg to differ. My husband and I have been fostering dogs from the local animal shelter through a rescue for 1 and a half years now. There are some really sweet dogs, and I'm glad we are able to help them on their way to a permanent home....BUT! none of them has been a suitable match for our family.
Every single pound dog we have fostered has come to us with severe emotional problems that makes them unstable enough around children for us to say "no way am I going to risk my family's safety having this animal around." Despite the fact that they are all soo sweet, they are a risk to us.
Then we decided we are going to start over with a puppy. We are done fostering because I am having a baby and do not want another mentally unstable animal around my child. How about a puppy from the pound? We would love one....however:
90% of the puppies/dogs here are "pitbulls" because they have square heads and short fur. It is impossible to look at a little gerbilish puppy and know if it will keep it's square head when it's grown. We are not allowed to have any "pitbull" or "pit mix" where we live because of all the breed specific legislation crapola.
This has lead us on a mystical quest for a responsible borzoi breeder, and when we find one who health tests and works their dogs to prove their temperment and physical soundness, we WILL buy a puppy from them, because it will guarantee a much higher chance we will finally have the stable, healthy, loving companion that we have been searching for and could not find out of the hundreds of dogs that passed through the animal shelter. That puppy will not be displacing a shelter dog from a loved home, as we have no intention of bringing an unpredictable and potentially dangerous animal into our home with our children, or getting evicted because the puppy we picked has a square head. Been there, done that, no thanks.
As for responsibly bred animals being more healthy, they are. Humans are incredibly unhealthy creatures. Look at us, we have chronic back pain issues, many of us are killed by heart problems, cancer cases are through the roof, many people have reproductive problems, etc. etc. Wild animals ARE selectively bred for health. If they are not healthy enough to fend for themselves, THEY DIE. Also, wild animals do not live a happy and carefree/disease free ideal life. A wolf or coyote doesn't live 15 + years in the wild. They die around 5 or 6 years, very young by our standards of canine longevity.
It's the same thing in dogs. Right now we are fostering a 10 MONTH old staghound, and he has:
Severe allergies that cause bleeding sores on his skin
Hip dysplasia so severe he cannot walk more than 1.5 blocks without collapsing
Eye problems
Ear infections
Heart problems
And all that at only 10 months old. He is still a puppy for crying out loud. Regardless, we had planned on adopting him and giving him the best life possible. Then we found out that gee, someone beat the heck out of him before and he is now a reactive fear biter when sometimes people touch his back. We absolutely cannot keep him with the baby now, and so the rescue is working on placing him with someone who
1. Has the money for his medical bills
2. Has no children
Seamus' situation has been the last straw. We are tired of trying to fix everybody else's screwups as far as "oops, I didn't mean for my dog to get pregnant," and "Oh gee, I beat the crap out of this dog and now it's ruined and will never be safe around children," or "I triedto make this dog mean enough for dog fighting but it didn't work, so now it's just a ruined neurotic mess." While I admire people who do take these animals into their homes on a permanent basis, it's not for my family. We are going to get a puppy who's parents have been tested for eye, heart, and joint problems and found healthy. We are going to get a puppy who's parents were mated because they both have great temperaments and they both have good working ability and they are good specimens of their breed. We are going to raise it with love and kindness so that it doesn't snap when someone pets it, or tries to give it a treat, so that it can be a safe, healthy and good family companion that we will enjoy until the end of it's days.
That is the end of my rant.
Every single pound dog we have fostered has come to us with severe emotional problems that makes them unstable enough around children for us to say "no way am I going to risk my family's safety having this animal around." Despite the fact that they are all soo sweet, they are a risk to us.
Then we decided we are going to start over with a puppy. We are done fostering because I am having a baby and do not want another mentally unstable animal around my child. How about a puppy from the pound? We would love one....however:
90% of the puppies/dogs here are "pitbulls" because they have square heads and short fur. It is impossible to look at a little gerbilish puppy and know if it will keep it's square head when it's grown. We are not allowed to have any "pitbull" or "pit mix" where we live because of all the breed specific legislation crapola.
This has lead us on a mystical quest for a responsible borzoi breeder, and when we find one who health tests and works their dogs to prove their temperment and physical soundness, we WILL buy a puppy from them, because it will guarantee a much higher chance we will finally have the stable, healthy, loving companion that we have been searching for and could not find out of the hundreds of dogs that passed through the animal shelter. That puppy will not be displacing a shelter dog from a loved home, as we have no intention of bringing an unpredictable and potentially dangerous animal into our home with our children, or getting evicted because the puppy we picked has a square head. Been there, done that, no thanks.
As for responsibly bred animals being more healthy, they are. Humans are incredibly unhealthy creatures. Look at us, we have chronic back pain issues, many of us are killed by heart problems, cancer cases are through the roof, many people have reproductive problems, etc. etc. Wild animals ARE selectively bred for health. If they are not healthy enough to fend for themselves, THEY DIE. Also, wild animals do not live a happy and carefree/disease free ideal life. A wolf or coyote doesn't live 15 + years in the wild. They die around 5 or 6 years, very young by our standards of canine longevity.
It's the same thing in dogs. Right now we are fostering a 10 MONTH old staghound, and he has:
Severe allergies that cause bleeding sores on his skin
Hip dysplasia so severe he cannot walk more than 1.5 blocks without collapsing
Eye problems
Ear infections
Heart problems
And all that at only 10 months old. He is still a puppy for crying out loud. Regardless, we had planned on adopting him and giving him the best life possible. Then we found out that gee, someone beat the heck out of him before and he is now a reactive fear biter when sometimes people touch his back. We absolutely cannot keep him with the baby now, and so the rescue is working on placing him with someone who
1. Has the money for his medical bills
2. Has no children
Seamus' situation has been the last straw. We are tired of trying to fix everybody else's screwups as far as "oops, I didn't mean for my dog to get pregnant," and "Oh gee, I beat the crap out of this dog and now it's ruined and will never be safe around children," or "I triedto make this dog mean enough for dog fighting but it didn't work, so now it's just a ruined neurotic mess." While I admire people who do take these animals into their homes on a permanent basis, it's not for my family. We are going to get a puppy who's parents have been tested for eye, heart, and joint problems and found healthy. We are going to get a puppy who's parents were mated because they both have great temperaments and they both have good working ability and they are good specimens of their breed. We are going to raise it with love and kindness so that it doesn't snap when someone pets it, or tries to give it a treat, so that it can be a safe, healthy and good family companion that we will enjoy until the end of it's days.
That is the end of my rant.
I have already made the concession that working dogs – really dogs that work, are a benefit and reason for selective breading.
I would argue breading dogs that will not be used for real work, but for things like showing or agility or just to better the line is not breeding. It is breeding to indulge human entertainment.
I would argue breading dogs that will not be used for real work, but for things like showing or agility or just to better the line is not breeding. It is breeding to indulge human entertainment.
No I would not in this situation. My children's safety and keeping a roof over their head's is priority.
Edit: We have also decided to stop fostering dogs, at least until the children are much older, so getting a purebred dog from a good breeder doesn't even stop them from having a foster home here.
Edit: We have also decided to stop fostering dogs, at least until the children are much older, so getting a purebred dog from a good breeder doesn't even stop them from having a foster home here.
But that is not the way it should be looked at................If I didn't put those dogs in shelters that are their then I can sleep at night knowing I did nothing wrong! If I had gone to purchase a mixed breed puppy from a BYB would that have made things better knowing where those pups were headed?...... The pound! Is that considered rescue? Would it make you feel better if I told you I rescued my ACD from a horrible breeder who was found gulity of animal cruelty and the dogs were about to be brought to the local shelter? Both of my "rescued" dogs had hip issues due to bad breeding and bad genetics, sorry if I wanted a dog this time around with a "known" lineage, parentage, health clearances etc.
So, you are saying that the companionship that a small toy breed gives an elderly man who lives alone is of no value? A dog small enough for him to pick up and keep on his lap? I know what you are thinking - there are plenty of small dogs in shelters. WRONG! And, lets just say we stopped breeding until all of those dogs were taken and in homes. Then there are no more dogs left to use as healthy, tested breeding stock so someday another elderly man or woman can have the benefits a small, toy dog could offer.
I don't care who tries to deny it, but the most IMPORTANT job dogs have had since the beginning of time was and still is COMPANIONSHIP. There is VALUE in this and in certain situations, it is vitally important that a person be able to predict the type of personality and temperament their dog will have through selecting the appropriate breed!
I am quite shocked you would be comfortable with letting all the hard work, time and effort breeders have put into their breeds go. To put a hold on breeding so all is lost?
I don't care who tries to deny it, but the most IMPORTANT job dogs have had since the beginning of time was and still is COMPANIONSHIP. There is VALUE in this and in certain situations, it is vitally important that a person be able to predict the type of personality and temperament their dog will have through selecting the appropriate breed!
I am quite shocked you would be comfortable with letting all the hard work, time and effort breeders have put into their breeds go. To put a hold on breeding so all is lost?
the problem is, people are breeding because consumers are consuming. if people didn't keep buying puppies and then discarding them as adults for x, y, and z reasons, the shelters wouldn't be so full. people don't want to be stuck with a litter of pups they can't sell. if they repeatedly can't sell them, they'll lose money instead of making money, and the gig is up.
most of the dogs in shelters are adults. a huge number of them are pit bulls or adolescent large breed dogs with no manners. somebody owned most of these dogs at some point, and even if nobody's breeding puppies anymore, it's not going to make those unwanted dogs more appealing.
it's not an overpopulation of pets so much as an underpopulation of responsible owners.
edited to add: if it matters, i've never bred a litter of anything (well, dust bunnies under my bed maybe) and all three of my dogs have been adopted from a shelter or a rescue as adults.
but you know what else? i may very well buy a dog in the future as i get more and more interested in dog sports, and i want to someday start a dog from puppyhood with the best possible chances of having success as an adult. buying a dog from known lines gives me the best odds of getting the dog i want.
most of the dogs in shelters are adults. a huge number of them are pit bulls or adolescent large breed dogs with no manners. somebody owned most of these dogs at some point, and even if nobody's breeding puppies anymore, it's not going to make those unwanted dogs more appealing.
it's not an overpopulation of pets so much as an underpopulation of responsible owners.
edited to add: if it matters, i've never bred a litter of anything (well, dust bunnies under my bed maybe) and all three of my dogs have been adopted from a shelter or a rescue as adults.
but you know what else? i may very well buy a dog in the future as i get more and more interested in dog sports, and i want to someday start a dog from puppyhood with the best possible chances of having success as an adult. buying a dog from known lines gives me the best odds of getting the dog i want.
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Agree!! a dog company is a good way to cure depretion.
small ones are very important.
Most of The dogs used for helping people wit hearig problems are small also they use small breeds like beagles to find forbidden foods and drugs on airports.
Some people like older men or women, or persons wit diseases are weak to handle a big dog.
Also People who live in apartments of a small house don't have space for a big dog.
small ones are very important.
Most of The dogs used for helping people wit hearig problems are small also they use small breeds like beagles to find forbidden foods and drugs on airports.
Some people like older men or women, or persons wit diseases are weak to handle a big dog.
Also People who live in apartments of a small house don't have space for a big dog.
Responsible breeders are not the problem. BYB's and puppy mills are the problem. To accuse and blame the dog owner who purchases a pet from a responsible breeder because they are allowing another shelter animal to suffer and possibly die is misdirected blame and fault. The responsible breeder not only produces pups that have been carefully planned and homed before birth, but produces quality dogs in temperment and health. Also, most responsible breeders are also active in their breeds rescue. A pup produced by an ethical and responsible breeder will always have a home- because a responsible breeder will always take one of their pups back.
When a buyer goes through the proper channels and gets a pup from responsible, ethical breeders they are helping the pet overpopulation problem IMOBECAUSE they are not supporting the BYB'er or the miller out to make a quick buck with little thought of where the pup will end up. The responsible breeder cares about their pups and their breed as a whole- BYB's and millers do not. BYB's and millers are not concerned with the overflowing shelters and health problems from over breeding- again money is a driving motivation.
I will not feel shame and at fault for an animal in a shelter because I have chosen to go to a responsible breeder. I am active in foster and have rescued dogs of my own. I will not ever support BYB's or millers and will continue to rally against them and educate as many as I can about them. But because my 4 1/2 month old pup was obtained through a responsible breeder I will not feel guilty because I did not adopt instead. Sure, their are many dogs waiting for a good home, but instead of targeting the people who are doing things the responsible way throw the blame where it should lie- with the irresponsible breeders and the people who keep them alive- those who buy from them.
Education is the only way to end this horrible problem, accusing responsible pet owners who have dogs from responsible breeders will not help the pet population problem.
When a buyer goes through the proper channels and gets a pup from responsible, ethical breeders they are helping the pet overpopulation problem IMOBECAUSE they are not supporting the BYB'er or the miller out to make a quick buck with little thought of where the pup will end up. The responsible breeder cares about their pups and their breed as a whole- BYB's and millers do not. BYB's and millers are not concerned with the overflowing shelters and health problems from over breeding- again money is a driving motivation.
I will not feel shame and at fault for an animal in a shelter because I have chosen to go to a responsible breeder. I am active in foster and have rescued dogs of my own. I will not ever support BYB's or millers and will continue to rally against them and educate as many as I can about them. But because my 4 1/2 month old pup was obtained through a responsible breeder I will not feel guilty because I did not adopt instead. Sure, their are many dogs waiting for a good home, but instead of targeting the people who are doing things the responsible way throw the blame where it should lie- with the irresponsible breeders and the people who keep them alive- those who buy from them.
Education is the only way to end this horrible problem, accusing responsible pet owners who have dogs from responsible breeders will not help the pet population problem.
No responsible breeders dogs end up in shelters.... So the only dogs in shelters are byb millers etc. As I have stated before, going that route (from strictly a genetics point...and that is what I am in school for) would be a disaster, as byb and millers would keep breeding, and with no good breeders-Dandandat-what do YOU think would happen to the canine gene pool?
The other reason there will always be byb and dogs in shelters, is that good breeders refuse to sell people dogs who they don't think can handle/are suitable homes. Pet stores, and byb will sell these people puppies. These people then dump them in shelters (or worse).
So by target 'good' breeders, you are giving a leg up to byb and millers. I work with rescue, rehabilitating JRTs that were due to be PTS. I do my part, but I also breed. (say a litter every few years) to keep good DNA there. The ones that come into rescue are often so far of JRT standard they look like crosses. If all the good JRT breeders stopped breeding, the would be many more hyper, strange looking little white terriers with the label JRT on them.
The other reason there will always be byb and dogs in shelters, is that good breeders refuse to sell people dogs who they don't think can handle/are suitable homes. Pet stores, and byb will sell these people puppies. These people then dump them in shelters (or worse).
So by target 'good' breeders, you are giving a leg up to byb and millers. I work with rescue, rehabilitating JRTs that were due to be PTS. I do my part, but I also breed. (say a litter every few years) to keep good DNA there. The ones that come into rescue are often so far of JRT standard they look like crosses. If all the good JRT breeders stopped breeding, the would be many more hyper, strange looking little white terriers with the label JRT on them.
Danandat,If we bought puppies from byb's and millers,which is what you think is right,then they would make more.
If all reliable good breeders stopped breeding till all the shelter dogs were gone,all the dogs in the world would be unfit,unhealthy dogs that die earlier.
And the shelters will never stop filling,sad but true.Every day thousands of unplanned, irresponsible litters are brought into this world for millions of weak excuses.As long as there are byb's,there will be shelters,im afraid.If all responsible breeders stopped breeding,the byb's would breed even more,making shelters even more full.
I know you want to help,but banning breeding is not the answer.Unless you teach people how to mend their ways,they will carry on unaware to the damage they cause.
Sorry for how long this is everybody!
If all reliable good breeders stopped breeding till all the shelter dogs were gone,all the dogs in the world would be unfit,unhealthy dogs that die earlier.
And the shelters will never stop filling,sad but true.Every day thousands of unplanned, irresponsible litters are brought into this world for millions of weak excuses.As long as there are byb's,there will be shelters,im afraid.If all responsible breeders stopped breeding,the byb's would breed even more,making shelters even more full.
I know you want to help,but banning breeding is not the answer.Unless you teach people how to mend their ways,they will carry on unaware to the damage they cause.
Sorry for how long this is everybody!