Territorial barking at other dogs- HP assist dog

[englishsp]

I have a one-year-old intact male English cocker that I got 2 months ago from a private rescue (someone helping the original owner). He's doing great in almost every way - comes 98% of time (outside on 30' leash & in house), sits, long stays, lies down, waits, me out the door first, fetch and drop, only 4 potty mistakes in 2 months, only one in last 5 weeks - a real sweetie, great with kids, adult people and meeting new dogs.

One big problem, outside in our yard (1 1/2 acre field) he totally loses it when another dog and owner walk by on our street, even from 100-125 feet away. It's a popular road for joggers, bikes, etc. but mostly he's very cool. Just other dogs/dog walkers push his buttons.

He stretches himself out long, rear end lowered, rear legs back long, head and shoulders raised, lunges and pulls full strength on leash, refuses sit/down, and barks aggressively and out of control. There's been some improvement lately but, honestly, I don't like how hard I have to jerk his leash to get his attention and he continues whimpering, and barking long after the dog is gone. He even did this with a dog he already met and behaved well with.

I would add that I'm a quadriplegic in a wheelchair and I'm concerned about losing hold of the lead. My hands are fragile and I can't stress my hands this much. If not for this problem he's everything I've wanted in every way, the perfect service dog for me because of his size, usual gentleness, sweet temperament, easy train-ability, and innate fetch/retrieve instinct. He's very food oriented but when this happens I need my limited hand strength to hold the lead, not offer treats.

Any thoughts? thanks in advance.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Welcome to chaz!

It sounds like your dog is probably not aggressive (though impossible to tell for sure without seeing him), but is just reactive - he's so excited and distracted by the presence of anyone, that he cannot control himself.

The first thing I would suggest is to read "Click to Calm" and start learning about how to use clicker training to teach the dog how to be, well, calm, when one of these distractions comes along. I would also suggest not taking him out of your yard until you have practiced the mechanics of clicker training (which, BTW, you can definately do even if you can't physically click a clicker, you can use a marker word or other sound instead of a clicker.... I believe this is discussed in "Click to Calm"), and have gotten a handle on the situation with no distractions.

Personally, I'm a professional service dog trainer and have trained many dogs to work with someone with limited strength and/or movement. While I do think that you can work through this problem with this dog on your own, I HIGHLY suggest hiring a private trainer to help you. Though a service dog trainer would be most appropriate, most pet dog trainers are just as capable of working with reactive dogs, and most can also help you teach the dog service dog tasks. You can check out Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources for a trainer search if you don't already have a trainer.

As for holding the leash, my organization has designed a J-shaped hook that we attach to power chairs and hook the leash onto. This way the person does not have to hold the leash at all (as many of our clients cannot hold the leash at all), and does not have to worry about holding the leash while giving treats.

I probably don't need to tell you this, but this behavior is extremely unacceptable for service dogs. Not only is it detrimental to your saftey and potentially dangerous for the people your dog reacts to, letting people see that your "service dog" acts like this in public hurts every other service dog owner who has to fight for their public access rights. Not only should you not put a service dog vest on this dog, you should not take him into public at all until you get a handle on this situation.

 

[Brattina88]

I agree with Lizzybeth, and I second Click to Calm! There are training games (as I like to calm them) specifically for dogs who react to other dogs like this. I bought and read the book when I didn't have any behavioral problems, it is a good read. I used some of the attention getting tips with Maddie. Now it helps if any behaviors arise with the fosters.

I did notice that you said he is intact. Are there any plans to neuter in the future? Just wondering. Sometimes dogs can be a bit territorial. Does he react to a dog like this when away from the home?

And, for your hands, maybe a head halter (or there are other types of harnesses) would help - he won't be able to jerk you as bad until he learns the deal. I've seen several service dogs here with them, even though they don't appear to need them.

and this is totally off topic - but I'd love to see pics of your boy

 

[englishsp]

Thanks for the welcome Lizzy and Bratt. I appreciate your helpfulness and I'll consider all your advice.

I agree with you that I shouldn't put a service vest on him and I wouldn't because he isn't there at that level yet. Also, I don't necessarily need a formally designated service dog; I need a dog who handles himself well and does what I need done in my context. The worst case scenario is I'll end up with a great dog with one unresolved issue from his first year before I got him. I think we can work this one out though.

In his defense, I've only had him 2 months, he's a cheery little dog and well behaved with strangers, the groomer, and every dog he's been nose to nose with. He only does this long distance while in his own yard. When he does this, he wags his tail...I think he's reactive partly because he wants to play with the other dog?

Lizzy, can I see the J hook online? And Bratt, he's a b&w parti, can I e-mail you the pics?

 

[Dekka]

Hey, you can post pics on photobucket and share them with everyone.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Lizzy, can I see the J hook online?

I PMed you.

 

[englishsp]

I pretty much solved the worst of the barking problem over the past week and a half.

When I saw a strange dog coming I got loud and had him sit. The first 2 times I cupped his face in my hands and said "watch me" so he didn't totally lose it, then I started stuffing treats in him to take his attention off the other dog, while saying "quiet." Now, he barks 2 or 3 times when he first sees a dog, I get him to sit/stay, and I say "quiet" - he holds it until the dog is out of sight, and I give him one treat as a reward.

He needs more reinforcement before I would leave him on a long leash out of my reach, but on a 4 foot leash he's now under control and behaving.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Glad to see you took our advice.

Good luck.

 

[ihartgonzo]

You're pushing your dog past his threshold... that is the point at which he reacts. He is a reactive dog. Work with him at the point just before threshold - 150 feet if you need to!

Physically/verbally correcting your dog is likely to take his reactiveness right into full-blown aggression, especially at his highly impressionable age! Physically forcing him to keep quiet might seem like the easiest way to correct this issue, but you are most likely creating many more behavioral problems with a rushed, confusing aproach. You are not changing how he feels when he sees other dogs and people, you are simply supressing his reaction, and teaching him not to vocalize his discomfort and fear. Instead of forcing him into silence, teach him to actually enjoy seeing other dogs and people, and view that as a consistently positive/rewarding experience. A service dog needs to reliably focus on you at all times, without needing to be physically reprimanded.

Please, follow the GOOD ADVICE that you recieved from Lizzybeth and others...

 

[englishsp]

You're pushing your dog past his threshold... that is the point at which he reacts. He is a reactive dog. Work with him at the point just before threshold - 150 feet if you need to!

Physically/verbally correcting your dog is likely to take his reactiveness right into full-blown aggression, especially at his highly impressionable age! Physically forcing him to keep quiet might seem like the easiest way to correct this issue, but you are most likely creating many more behavioral problems with a rushed, confusing aproach. You are not changing how he feels when he sees other dogs and people, you are simply supressing his reaction, and teaching him not to vocalize his discomfort and fear. Instead of forcing him into silence, teach him to actually enjoy seeing other dogs and people, and view that as a consistently positive/rewarding experience. A service dog needs to reliably focus on you at all times, without needing to be physically reprimanded.

Please, follow the GOOD ADVICE that you recieved from Lizzybeth and others...

Thanks Gonzo. What I did seems to have worked quickly to break the pattern. A walker with a German Shepherd passed us this afternoon and Paki didn't even look his way; we just kept walking. Yesterday a contractor brought his Springer in the truck, no problem. And, last Friday, my tree guy's two Newfoundlands. I'm pleased with the progress.

I still have some concern, and time to think about a longer term method, but I'm not seeing your downward spiral into "full-blown aggression" quite yet. There's a lot of dog walkers along my road and I hear the barking from yard to yard a half a mile in either direction as they pass. Hey, dogs bark.

I haven't turned my dog into a stone cold psychotic killer yet, thanks. It's an ongoing process, a few kinks to work out, mine and his, but overall going very well. Lighten up.

 

[corgipower]

Glad to hear it's progressing well.

I haven't turned my dog into a stone cold psychotic killer yet, thanks. It's an ongoing process

Ya, that is quite the process. I'm still trying to get there with my dogs. They've got the psychotic part figured out, but not the killer. I've even tried playing tug with them. Still not there.

 

[Brattina88]

how cute is he??

 

[englishsp]

how cute is he??

He's so cute and sweet tempered he attracts major attention wherever we go. Especially young women, he's definitely a chick magnet - too bad I'm so old - but even like a contractor in line at Home Depot last weekend was fascinated by him and we spent some pleasant time talking about his dog and him interacting with Paki.

He's great with strangers and children who approach him and I've been pleasantly surprised by the positive social aspects that came with getting my dog. I doubt there's any training mistake I could make that would make him aggressive. He's so not aggressive, mostly I worry that if burglars rob the house he'll show them around the place and invite them to dinner.

 

[ihartgonzo]

I haven't turned my dog into a stone cold psychotic killer yet, thanks. It's an ongoing process, a few kinks to work out, mine and his, but overall going very well. Lighten up.

I apologize for trying to help... it won't happen again.

 

[englishsp]

I apologize for trying to help... it won't happen again.

I do appreciate your help and I hope I can look forward to more of your input in the future. We don't always have to agree in order to get along.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I still have some concern, and time to think about a longer term method, but I'm not seeing your downward spiral into "full-blown aggression" quite yet. There's a lot of dog walkers along my road and I hear the barking from yard to yard a half a mile in either direction as they pass. Hey, dogs bark.

Aggression almost always starts as fear. Sometimes it takes a long time to build, sometimes it doesn't build into aggression at all and just shows itself as a lot of irrational, seemingly random fears.

 

[Doberluv]

You're pushing your dog past his threshold... that is the point at which he reacts. He is a reactive dog. Work with him at the point just before threshold - 150 feet if you need to!

Physically/verbally correcting your dog is likely to take his reactiveness right into full-blown aggression, especially at his highly impressionable age! Physically forcing him to keep quiet might seem like the easiest way to correct this issue, but you are most likely creating many more behavioral problems with a rushed, confusing aproach. You are not changing how he feels when he sees other dogs and people, you are simply supressing his reaction, and teaching him not to vocalize his discomfort and fear. Instead of forcing him into silence, teach him to actually enjoy seeing other dogs and people, and view that as a consistently positive/rewarding experience. A service dog needs to reliably focus on you at all times, without needing to be physically reprimanded.

Please, follow the GOOD ADVICE that you recieved from Lizzybeth and others...

good post...good advice. Placing a dog beyond his threshold is where things go south. Desensatizing/counter conditioning starts from a comfortable place. (click to calm) Punishment of any kind in this type of circumstance will supress behavior, but as most behaviorists will tell you, it can create a time bomb. As tempting as it is to correct the rotten behavior, avoid that. Instead prevent it. Set the dog up for success and reinforce good behavior that you help create by controlling the environment. Most of the time, dogs aren't aware of their behavior, so punishment tends to be associated with whatever is in the environment and then bigger problems develop. Good luck.

 

[Brattina88]

I have a sort-of related question I understand thresholds, and I've actually worked with a dog who reacted to them in the ways suggested above, but I never found this one out; what do you do if, say, a stray dog appears out of nowhere obviously past your dogs threshold.

What do you do? How do you react?

 

[Doberluv]

Those things come up, of course. Try to react as little as possible. Don't say anything to him or make a fuss. Just really be lethargic. LOL. Make an arc as you pass the other dog if you can, rather than facing him head on and make some distance if you can between the other dog and your dog. Do the best you can and then keep practicing in more ideal conditions when possible, setting up situations if you can where there are dogs that are at a comfortable distance. Try to pick places to walk where it's more unlikely to see other dogs close up...if possible, of course. (duh...you're probably already doing that) Work at home on getting attention/eye contact. Mark eye contact, reward. Add a cue to that once he's getting onto the game of eye contact.

So, mainly when that happens, try to remain as calm as you can and self assured as you walk past, like its no big deal. Be sure to try to reward your dog before he goes nuts on the other dog. If there is one second of calm, watch for it and reward. It all takes a lot of practice to keep calm, hang onto the leash, (lol) watch the dog's body language, make sure you're steering him over to the side, making an arc, having one treat in one hand, ready to dispense at just the right time. LOL. It isn't easy.

Have you read Click to Calm? She gives lots of other good help. I like this one: if you're like me and can't help but tighten up on the leash, (that's when I had my Doberman..he was very reactive) since if the dog is lunging, the leash gets tight. So, a tight leash or a nervous demeanor on your part can actually become conditioned in the dog to mean good things, not bad. So, you practice at home, at first, tightening up on the leash, acting a tad uptight and nervous while feeding some scrumptious, fantastical treat. Grab the collar (gradually at first if your dog has a problem with that) and feed at the same time. Soon, these things = "woo hoo, yeah." LOL.

 

[Brattina88]

It isn't easy

That's for sure
Thank you for the post! It helps to see it all in black and white like that, for quick and future reference. It can be so frustrating when your hard work is really paying off, and a loose dog comes around unexpectedly and sets you back a few steps. :/


Omigosh - I'm such a dope! I just now remembered an exersize in Click to Calm. The one where you teach the dog that snoot handling=good things. So you can hold his snoot and keep on walking(I beleive it was something like that!).