Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Dizzy, Apr 10, 2013.
How do you start?
Ack. Subbing in here. I always fail at this.
I've tried shaping hind feet touching an object, but it is not good... They don't seem to get what I'm clicking for. They're so hind end unaware
Mine too. Rider tends to get easily discouraged, so he will just scream at me and then lay down. Harlow is just, untrying. If she can't put her front feet on it and climb, or walk like a person, she don't give a *uck.
Bodhi is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too over enthusiastic and it gets really annoying. She goes at 100mph, then starts offering random stuff more and more quickly and frantically!!
Fred is more laid back, but gets silly. He doesn't get it.... We call him dumb, but he actually picks things up more quickly as bodhi as he takes more time to think things through. She's clever but ADHD and misses the point most of the time
For my part, first I start with perch work. So, the dog places front feet on some type of perch (I actually one of their food bowls upside down, because it has nice rubber grips on the bottom!). Once they get that idea solidly, I start clicking for ANY hind end movement, and build that into a pivot - ideally in both directions on separate cues.
Now my dog at least has the idea that moving the back feet/hind end can earn rewards.
From there I go to rear foot targeting. I use something big and easy to hit - I actually JUST started this with Blossom a few hours ago. I have a wooden plank here, maybe 3-4 ft long, 12" across, and like an inch thick. The whole thing started with her running onto and then off the plank, and me marking when her back feet were still on the plank. She would freeze, and I would continue to feed her in that position, then release. Cool beans.
After a decent number of reps, she would inevitably overshoot the plank and realizing her mistake, back up to find it with her head feet. I jackpotted her and made a huuuuge fuss about it. Now I've got her consistently backing onto the plank with her hind end, but haven't named it yet.
Hope that helps. It's a pretty difficult skill, honestly, but I find it worth teaching. There are definitely lots of ways to do it and none are wrong. It's all about whatever gets your dog thinking about their behind.
I started with back feet touching a bowl but it does take awhile, especially for a dog that doesn't really know they HAVE back feet let alone can use them independently. It gets frustrating for both dogs and people so I would definitely keep the sessions super short at first.
The other thing I've had good luck with is instead of teaching to target something with their backfeet I've first taught them to go backwards up stairs via shaping it. That seems to first of all start that muscle memory of reaching back with their feet, is more of a confined space so they are limited to what they can do and helps get that idea of maybe there is something back there attached to their body.
This was after a decent number of sessions of Didgie NOT getting it at all so you can see it can take time.
And here's Traveler's first day (a few sessions after we started) of backing up the stairs. You can see he's starting to reach back with his feet which I think is one of the bigger hurdles.
Ahhh ok. Well, they both know front feet perching, and Bodhi will pivot but not to a cue.
We can maybe build on both those things!
I've got Rider perching, and he can pivot both ways... Not on cue, because I'm lame.
I've tried having him swing on the perch and having another lid out where his hind end will eventually reach it... but I feel like it hasn't helped anything. I may try the stairs! Emily! That sounds pretty genius. I will definitely give that a shot.
I used stairs or a grooming table on the floor. I have used pressure with dogs that get stuck. Once they understand the goal I make them start figuring it out themselves by weaning the pressure.
I was going to mention backing up stairs too. It's actually really hilarious at first to watch them figure out that they have back legs.
I hate to break t to you, but if your dog has feet on her head, she's a bit deformed :rofl1:
I inititally attempted to teach Journey to target an object with her back feet, but it would have worked better if I'd had a hallway or something to teach her in. My livingroom is too big and open and she just ran around trying to find things to put her front feet on haha. I could have stuck it out and she would have gotten it, but I decided to move to stairs instead and she had it within seconds. Now she'll try backing onto pretty much anything with her back feet. She also started with perch/pivot work as well before she learned to target with her back feet.
There was something on this at ClickerExpo: http://stalecheerios.com/blog/dog-training/michele-pouliot-step-basic-platforms/
I taught Marsh to 2o2o a flat rate shipping box, and by tossing a treat at my feet so he came forward off the box. After a while he started backing up and seeking with his back foot instead of turning around and climbing forward and part way off.