Suggestions on dog food needed, raw or kibble?

[Roo92]

I think I need a new direction with my dogs as far as food and I'm not sure which way to go at this point, suggestions/ opinions on it would be great.

I have two beagle mixes 5 and 8 yrs. old, my 5 yr old mix suffers from chronic bouts of colitis (finally diagnosed a year after she started having issues), she has two or three episodes a month that last for about half a day usually. Along with colitis, she tends to drink a lot of water and a couple times in the past has had UTI's, and she has Coprohagia (which we try to keep under control). My 8 yr old gets ear infections on certain foods, and does best on corn, wheat, and soy free foods, which I prefer anyway.

In the past I've had them on California Natural, Canidae, Innova, and Wellness, which they did ok on.

Recently I've been feeding NV Prairie for about 8 months now and they seem to do the best on it, compared to the others above, but have gained a lot of weight on it ~ I'm even feeding less than the recommended amount and they are getting daily exercise (walks or running with other dogs at the dog park, however they are not very active dogs otherwise). I had someone tell me it might be because NV has a somewhat high sugar content. (not sure if that's true) They didn't easily gain weight like this when they were on Innova or California Natural.

I thought I would try going back to Innova, maybe trying EVO to see if they could drop the weight, when I just found out about the P&G buy out. I haven't kept up with dog food news recently since I haven't switched foods for a while.

It's so frustrating when you find good dog foods you like, and then changes are made, first Canidae, now Natura.

I would love to feed raw, and not have to worry about commercial ingredients. I actually read up on feeding raw, and attempted it once before (one day of feeding raw chicken legs and NV raw medallions) and ended up with two sick dogs with bacteria infections, an uncommon tapeworm found usually in farm animals, and a nice big vet bill to fix it all. Which I don't understand because I froze the meat first overnight and I've been feeding them raw frozen marrow bones for years with no issues. The only thing I can think of is that the raw chicken I used was antibiotic free meat.

With the weight and colitis issues, I'm wondering about raw vs home cooked vs grain free kibble vs not grain free kibble? I'm not sure what would be best. I know with the colitis, higher amounts of fiber are needed to try to help prevent bouts of it (I can always add in veggies etc.) but am unsure about grain free or raw as to if a higher protein content would be ok.

Or maybe I just need to get them more active and not change foods?

Any suggestions, comments, thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[stardogs]

I'd be tempted to stick with a food that works given all the issues you're trying to balance - my guess is that the NV has more calories per cup than the Natura foods you fed in the past and/or the dogs' metabolisms are changing as they age and that's why you're seeing weight gain.

 

[Beanie]

Auggie is fed way less than the recommend amount and he's on California Natural right now. We'll be switching him to something else soon because of the P&G buyout and I imagine he'll be fed way less than the recommend amount on that, too! I would guess the same as stardogs, there is probably more kcal per cup in the NV and that could be the difference. Have you tried to drop down the amount of NV you are feeding them per meal and see if that doesn't take the weight off?

 

[Zoom]

Sawyer was on the grain-free NV and while he did well on it, he did gain weight. It's a pretty high kcal type of food and you feed way, way less of it than you'd think. He's a 55 lb dog and was getting about 1/2 a cup at each meal for a total of 1 cup a day. Even on Innova, he was getting 1 1/2 cups of food a day.

We're on raw now and haven't had an issue with much of anything, especially once I got portion size figured out.

 

[Roo92]

Thanks for the feedback, on the NV Prairie chicken bag (which isn't grain free) it says the recommended feeding for my dogs weights, being less active and overweight is 1 1/4 to 2 cups per day, I've been feeding one of my dogs 1 cup a day and the other dog gets 3/4 a cup a day since one of my dogs is smaller than the other. Even though I'm feeding less than recommended, maybe I'm still feeding too much?

Besides that, it's just the occasional frozen small raw marrow bone and a couple of veggie treats a day because I've been trying to get them to a healthy weight. I would say they are about 6-9 lbs over weight currently. One dog weighs 42lbs and should really way 34 lbs and the other ways 29 lbs and should be more around 23 lbs.

I'm also wondering if switching to a grain free food or maybe attempting raw again, assuming my first attempt at it was a fluke, might help to improve Lola's colitis issues?
I would really like to get those better under control so she's not having episodes anymore-it's horrible to watch her cry in pain when she has one. The vets I've been to about it so far just offer me pain meds and prescription food like Science diet. I don't consider either of those options a healthy solution, plus she was still having episodes even when I tried the prescription Science diet for a couple of months.

I know diet isn't the only thing that can bring on a colitis attack, but I've read that some dogs can really improve with a proper diet and stress reduction.

 

[Zoom]

For being beagles, that amount is waaaaay too much in my opinion. I had him on the Prairie for one bag (I grabbed it by mistake instead of the Instinct) and that was about what I fed.

You might also head over to Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: Main Page and see if you can get Sabine to help craft a diet. She's amazing at what she does!

 

[Bailey08]

My dog has gastrointestinal issues (we think it's IBD) and I have to be careful about what he eats.

He does really, really well on premade raw. As long as I'm careful about what else he gets (recreational bones and treats like moo tubes can set him off), he doesn't have any episodes of gastro upset at all.

I went from high quality kibble (Origen) to homemade cooked to homemade raw to premade raw and, while he did better each time, he's best on premade raw.

I'm sure you know this, but feeding low fat protein is helpful. I'm careful about beef and stay away from lamb.

I like Primal. He's been getting some Stella & Chewy's too (I like the protein selection from Primal better, but S&C is high quality).

 

[Roo92]

Zoom, thanks that makes me feel better, maybe I'm just feeding them too much, I'll try feeding a little less than what I was, and see if that helps. Also thanks for the link, I will check it out, it would be great to get some good nutritional advice with all of this.

Bailey98, thanks for your thoughts and the info, I appreciate it. It is hard to figure things out when they have digestive issues as to what is best.

 

[stardogs]

To give you an idea of feeding amounts - my fairly active 25lb dog ate 1/2 cup twice per day of the NV Prairie and I'd expect to feed her less of the Instinct. My low activity 33lb dog ate the exact same amount as my 25lber on NV Prairie.

 

[Roo92]

Thanks Stardogs

Ok so if I give my 29lb dog a 1/2 cup a day total of the NV Prairie Chicken instead of her normal 3/4 a cup a day total of food. (I actually feed twice a day so it would work out to be 1/4 of a cup of food twice a day.)

Then for my 42lb dog try 3/4 a cup of food a day total, instead of his normal 1 cup of food a day total.

And then add in a little bit of fresh ground up veggies, for added fiber and to make them feel more full without adding weight, hopefully they will lose the extra weight then.

 

[ihartgonzo]

I'm also wondering if switching to a grain free food or maybe attempting raw again, assuming my first attempt at it was a fluke, might help to improve Lola's colitis issues?
I would really like to get those better under control so she's not having episodes anymore-it's horrible to watch her cry in pain when she has one. The vets I've been to about it so far just offer me pain meds and prescription food like Science diet. I don't consider either of those options a healthy solution, plus she was still having episodes even when I tried the prescription Science diet for a couple of months.

Feeding Raw worked WONDERS for a girl I know whose Boston had chronic colitis. I recommend reading up on the diet (get a Tom Lonsdale book), doing your research, buying from a reliable source (there are lots of raw co-ops everywhere) and giving it another go! It is unfortunate that your pups suffered a bacterial infection. To be honest, the only issue I've ever had with raw was with pre-made raw. I know some one whose dogs got bacterial infections from NV raw, before they switched to sterilizing their food. Never had any issues with feeding whole, real, prey model raw.

Science Diet is terrible. The dogs who come in (I work at a hotel) on prescription SD are still sickly, still have issues, and their owners are paying huge amounts of money for soy/corn-based food. Ridonculous!

 

[corgipower]

I feed NV Prairie Chicken and Rice and one of my 23 pound dogs eats 1-2 cups. My other 23 pound dog gets about 3/4 of a cup and is slightly overweight, but if I cut it back any more, she'll spend half the day throwing up bile. My 50 pound dog gets 3 cups a day and my 60ish pound dog gets 2 cups a day and if she doesn't get enough hard running in, she'll start getting overweight.

 

[Roo92]

As it turns out my husband, who normally does the morning feeding, was feeding way too much. I still think they were gaining too much weight easily on this food, so I switched foods.

I decided to try TOTW fish, and am happy to report they are losing weight gradually and seem to be doing even better on it than the NV Prairie. The brown mouth stains are gone and their coats appear shiner, teeth don't seem to be getting so much brown stuff on them, they appear to have more energy, very nice firm poops every time, and no more gas. Too early to tell if it's any improvement for Lola's colitis issues. I'm not the biggest fan of Diamond, but am cautiously optimistic that they will be ok on this food for now, I may try raw RPM at a later date.

Also since doing some reading I'll be switching from raw beef marrow bones to raw beef rib bones for their teeth cleaning needs. I'm concerned about them chipping or cracking a tooth with the weight bearing bones.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[Paul Bright]

I'd be tempted to stick with a food that works given all the issues you're trying to balance - my guess is that the NV has more calories per cup than the Natura foods you fed in the past and/or the dogs' metabolisms are changing as they age and that's why you're seeing weight gain.

I agree, stick with what works best

 

[Roo92]

I just thought I'd write an update to this, shortly after doing a few bags of TOTW we switched both dogs to a Prey Model Raw diet in Dec. We were able to switch correctly this time and I'm happy to report Lola's colitis issues completely cleared up in 2 months. She has no more pain, no more bloddy stool, no more episodes.

They've both also lost weight on the diet, gained muscle mass and look amazing. Their coats are really soft and shiny and the teeth are nice and white, specially the back teeth. I'm surprised at all the health differences with just a diet change.

I just wish I had figured this out and been more open to it sooner, Lola wouldn't have had to spend the last couple of years having painful episodes.

 

[Renee750il]

Glad you've got them all sorted out One of the most important parts of choosing the right diet for your dog is paying attention to your individual dog's reactions and you've done a good job on that.

 

[RD]

Some dogs are really easy keepers. My dad's 40lb BC and my mom's 30lb BC both eat 1/2 cup of grain free kibble twice a day and they're at a perfect weight.

I'm not sure how I got stuck with the total glutton dogs who can eat 5 cups of food a day and still be slim.

 

[monkeys23]

Yay, PMR rocks! Glad the issues were resolved.

 

[Claybuster]

My dog has been eating Abady granular feeds going on 9 years now. No problems to speak of and no weird trips to the vet. It is a high powered feed (30/28) and pushing close to 900 calories per cup. Granular was developed back in the mid to late 80's to offer a convenient option to the Abady raw products (for those who found raw not practical for them for whatever the reason). You fill find many people turned off by the ingredients (by-product meals/lard, etc.), however your focus should always be the health, and safety of the dog, regardless of the 1000s of food critics who think they know dog food and love to criticize what others feed. They are typically the kind of food critics who bash by-product meals yet welcome seaweed in their dogs diet (kelp, bladderwort, etc)...go figure. I know I will never switch my dog off of Abady products and have had nothing but fantastic results going on 9 years. Best of luck in your search for a quality feed.
Charlie

 

[serense]

I had shih tzu, and she love eat raw food , especially raw bone. She like chicken bone from head to feet. Maybe you can try chicken :lol-sign: