stealing pictures in gallery

smkie

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#41
Your work is pretty good, selling art right now is about as hard as finding a diamond on the ground.....I think your approach was inappropriate. Fact is u could go to any commericial dog site and see quality dog pics. I think u were trying hard to get an order by drawing a person's pet and hoping they would want it. I have lots of pieces I have already done, but it is my experience that people want their pet done, not something I have already made, especially if I can tailor it to have their toys etc in it. During this ecnomy especially in the states, no one is spending right now on extras that could wait...everyone is feeling it, from my friend that sells ink jet refills to the farmers at the market. I do feel though that if your skills are good enough and there is only one way to get there, (the lyfe so short the craft so long to learne) that u will suceed and people will eventually order. I am almost there now.and still each peice teaches me something new and improves my skill level. Best u post your work, offer your services at a fair price get to know people, city markets are a great public place to get orders at, and as Dr Scholl says
"work like hell and advertise advertise advertise" as poparf is doing. Good luck to u,
 

artist

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#42
please renee as a self respecting artist i have studied copyright law, including cases. i expressed the right desire before all this kicked off. as you are now aware. i should have done better on communication. inspired confidence at every step as i obviously didnt and is acutally a fault of mine running through my life it really sucks to be me.
though at least i have corrected that
 

artist

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#43
if and when i have some more of my detailed work i will get back to you smkie, i a wicked pastel study
 

Saje

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#44
artist said:
please renee as a self respecting artist i have studied copyright law, including cases. i expressed the right desire before all this kicked off. as you are now aware. i should have done better on communication. inspired confidence at every step as i obviously didnt and is acutally a fault of mine running through my life it really sucks to be me.
though at least i have corrected that
Artist: Renee's profession is in law and mine is in journalism. I've studied copyright laws in university and practise them everyday as a full-time freelance journalist. We know what we are talking about.

I'm impressed that you have come forward to talk about this issue. A lot of people would hover in the background and not address the issue.

You are right, dealing with internet theft is not something that has been figured out yet as the internet is still pretty new and even though we care about what's going on it would be a big fight to do anything about it.

So, hopefully you will do the right thing and talk with the people whose pictures you use and come to an arrangement that makes everyone happy.

Saje
 

smkie

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#45
I am a self respecting artist and I hav't studied jack about laws.funny they didn't teach that at the tute either, u are expected to come up with your own images unless comissioned then u come up with images for the customer, that is just common sense. If the customer ask u to use a specific pic, then that is what u work from (even if u don't like it very much) .but I do know what is a good way to work with people..If u do it right..u make a lot of people happy....first I draw to please me that is what being an artist is all about, and then I draw to please them.to me that is the business end.I have been doing this for about 20 years..and I have a perfect record of satisfaction.
ARt is suppose to be a celebration of life...a way to depict our soceity...to keep memories close forever where memory can fail...A way to communicate to the public if there is a danger that all should see...as in the Magpies on the Gallows.. It is a shame that on this forum there are two areas that have given "art" a bruise..here and that awful artist (I use the word artist with great protest) that used live animals..If u read Vincent Vango's (sp? I am just terrible tonight I can't remember how to spell anything" biography..his art and that of his peers had nothing to do with profit..u hoped to get enough to buy more paint and continue one more day...the money isn't the end goal. for me it is like music..to lift the soul, especially mine, I hope that no one will worry about posting the pics on the gallery because I just love looking at them, noggers, Techni,and all the others u remind of all the beauty in this world, of laughter, and love, of companionship, a celebration of the dogs and familys that make up their pack. I am so very very fond of the gallery. I have been able to express my love for my pack there as well, and the feedback makes me all warm and fuzzy...I go there instead of watching the news now. I enjoy what I see. I would just hate it if anyone were worried about posting there. This is a place for everyone's art, a place to celebrate the best in their lives. It should be respected.
 

Saje

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#46
Smkie. You're so great. That was very beautifully said and I have a lot of respect for you and your work.

I know that I am not worried about posting pictures. I love to share my babies with other people. :) And at least this thread has made more people aware of what happens out in cyber world.

Thanks
 
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#47
No worries here, Smkie! I figured out long ago that kharma operates whether we believe in it or not; what you do with honesty, integrity and love comes back in kind, as do other motivations. How others choose to gamble with that is theirs to deal with. Once someone has been shown the way to avoid hurting or taking advantage of others the consequences of ignoring that are their own to bear, as are the fruits of choosing to the right path.
 

artist

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#48
just to assuage your fear, replying to sajes post, i guess i have to state it again
to talk to the people whose pictures you use and come to an arrangement ... is exactly what you found me doing. even though it didnt nescessarily appear very apparent that that was what i was doing IT WAS what you assumed i was doing was WRONG!! i'm not sure you guys are able to admitt that and it would be really good renee if you could not only see it but also realise that what you get in life is about as you actually stated with huge precision about social skills and convention not about moral absoloutes though i do believe in a day of judgement the world certainly dishes out some injustice making karma a way to disprove the existence of a loving God for some. i.e. how could god allow that to happen to someone who is so... where is his sense of karma.
i was never a threat to chazhound as you imagine,

if you think smike that everybody who wants to to a picture of something has to personally take the photograph,s they use as reference you are hitting on a lot of people with that statement and also making life very impracticle for those starting out, i always drew from photographs from books etc to begin with. my wildlife art especially, then you have famous people, landscape that is inaccessible to most ... so many images in the world. if you are starting out and your personal photo gallery is low or the images you want are not readilly shootable what should you do... i understand originality is best i am just aware that within law the practicallty is also a part.
 

smkie

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#49
As a child I drew from books..then as a young artist I learned to draw from life...it is a big world..from my window is a cedar, dripping with snow the sun slants across it..
on my sofa is a sleeping dog, an expression of peace on her face, in my mind is a zillion things..Renee's dog and mine swing dancing, packs on wheels.an expression of Victors that i really want to do a study of...that i still want to get a sketch of..don't keep a chip on your shoulder, for no one wants that for you, and I sure don't want to cause any striff..my ol boss had the best saying in the world..of all that he taught me this one has saved me untold stress..the more you stir (we'll use the word dung here) the more it stinks. I use to think that when I had to redraw something bigger or smaller i would need the xerox machine..then one day I said if I did it once I can do it again..and my skill level jumped..i know when i go to a wildlife show and see a painting of a bird that i saw in say "birds and bloom" i recognize it and so do others.It takes away from the piece and gives the artist a bad name. I know that when I see a piece that is drawn from life, that it has a different flavor, more of the impression, more breath. When i do a portrait and the customer is local, I always offer to take the pictures. i get better to work from that way. If i can I really want to see the dog, watch it move, see it's personality. I make a better piece that way. I have been doing this for a long time, and I post this to share what I have learned. I do have an extensive education in art. The most I have learned is from the people I have worked for. I am drawing a collie for a woman right now. She gave me a very small photo to work from. The quality is low. I did go to many collie sites and study their faces to see if the brown markings around the eyes were actually what I was seeing..in the photo it is hard to tell. I use the web as a cross reference. I go to dog parks and try to take pictures with my mind..to remember something and come home to sketch it out. Many clubs, training facilities, shelters, would be more than happy to have you come in and draw from life. It breaks the monontiny (sp?) for them and is great practice for you. DRawing from the masters has always been an acceptable form of practice,,but that is all, practice. Museums will let you come in with a sketch book but not a camera. I think that is all in the spirit of learning. There is a show here in kc every year called arts unleashed. You should check it out for it is a great way to see how other pet artist go about their trade. EAch artist donates a piece and there are some big names there as well as the little guys like me. Since you are starting out, try to have an open mind..being an artist is the most wonderful occupation in the world. It never gets boring, and u only get better never worse. U find that you are capable of better then u ever thought possible. I have written some suggestions that I found gave me great growth as a person as well as an artist. I wish u well in your endevours.
 
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#50
Smkie - I can see I'm going to have to shoot a photo of Shiva standing on her hind legs "dancing" with Charley so that you'll have the anatomy you need to satisfy that insatiable curiosity and whimsical imagination! I'll get one of Kharma too since her physique is very different from Shiva's; your eye will appreciate the subtle differences. If Kharma were a dancer she would be Josephine Baker.

I think I've got the scanner at Charley's furniture store hooked up and working so I'll be able to scan in some of my old photos of Creatures Passed. I've got one of Bear you'll love (several, actually) that I've titled in my mind, "Working Class Dog." He loved to go land surveying with my Dad and me and would get in the work van and wait and one day I got a photo of him laying there in the midst of all the equipment, big head on his big paws right in the side doorway looking out.

Bear was probably the smartest surveying help my Dad ever had . . . ;)
 

Saje

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#51
Artist if you were coming to an arrangement that makes everyone happy this thread would not exist. People here are not happy with what you did.

It would have been much more ethical if you had contacted her tl_ashmore and told her you enjoyed her photos and would like to use them as a point of reference for your work. The two of you could have come to an arrangement if tl_ashmore was willing. As it is, it is a bit of a violation to have something stolen and have your hands tied about what to do. Put yourself in her shoes.
 

pitbulliest

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#52
smkie said:
Maybe u can collaberate (sp?) with a local shelter or rescue group that would let u photo...I would even send u some photos for i have some decent ones that u could use..or I could go take them for you if a share of the profits was to go to a rescue group or the humane shelter...u can contact me direct...i am a pretty good photographer and understand that it is hard to get going....I too would like to have a "print"gallery where I could sell prints...I think it is good that u came forward and explained what u are trying to do. People generally will help if they understand exactly what is going on. Take a look at my gallery. I have a nikon and can get quality photos for u if u wish.
That's an excellent idea. I'm running short on photos to work from right now so i just might do that considering $1 from each of my portrait sales does go to the shelter (or another animal related charity org of the person's choice that I have on a list)...so I'm sure they wouldn't mind if I asked...

You can also go out during spring and summer when its nice and make some of your own pictures at a dog park or something similar...I know that there's a cat show coming up here in Toronto in a few weeks that I'll be rushing off to with my camera lol.

I'd be interested to see your work some time smkie. And just to point out, I totally agree with you about art being a difficult business these days...that's why I have a backup plan personally...I don't think this will be my career but more of a hobby. I also think its important to advertise in the right places as well. I'm getting my business cards done next week and am actually planning on leaving them in various pet boutiques and groomers...does anyone have any ideas or comments about this procedure as I'm fairly new with this "pet portrait" business and I'd also like any advice that anyone can offer :)

Thanx
 

Saje

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#53
Pitbulliest, I love that you donate to shelters. That really shows how much you care about animals.

Do you sell a lot of your work? I'm just curious because I know how difficult it can be.
 
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#54
Pitbulliest, it might not be a bad idea to do a "complimentary" portrait for your vet if he'll hang it up in his waiting room - with one of your business cards in the corner of the frame and a business card holder with your cards nearby.

You can print up some tri-fold brochures on your printer as well and leave them in strategic places. Vets offices are good because there are people who are losing or have lost their companions and would be thrilled if they had someone who could make them something special in memory.

And, for goodness sake . . . PUT YOUR WEBSITE LINK IN YOUR SIGNATURE!!! :D
 

smkie

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#55
I have heard that if u do the dog shows you will sell out..especially these dauchsand and jaack russell people.There are lots of local art and craft shows... I kind of count on those for extra exposure and fall money. That is usually where I pick up my prechristmas orders. Make sure you put a deadline on them or you will end up painting on Christmas eve as I was this year. I have made brochures and cards, then I got lazy and just printed out one of my pics with the info on that. I have handed out a zillion of them at city market..If you are a quick study which I am not...the dog walks that raise money we have strut your mutt..walk your dog..there are many...and I see that dog portrait people that can either do charicatures or quick portraits make a lot of money..I want to be poor because I adore detail! My teacher once told me if i didn't knock it off she was going to put a sock on my hand and make me paint with that >.in a way she did but it didn't change how I work..oh well....Many of the small stores in SHawnee Ks, have either a few samples, cards or just my brochures somewhere in their store. Coffee shops will often let you hang a piece or two to help support local art.I dont have a website yet, and I sort of messed up what I posted here, if you scroll down tho I have added a few. maybe they will just let me start over sometime so I can make a better post ..I am kind of new to this attachment stuff.
One thing I would advise..make yourself a little contract that states once your rough has been approved the deposit is secure.always always get a deposit.or else they will change their minds a dozen times. I always do a finished pencil rough before i start a painting. That way if they want one ear higher, or a happier expression, I can do the alterations before I have to change it all in color. have you posted your work? I will go look right now. If you send me your e-mail I will send you some examples. I hope you can make it a career eventually for every piece makes you better. I wouldn't say the jobs I had while raising my children were wasted for I learned lots of stuff, but i think in the long run they hurt my skill level. I am a late bloomer because of it. Looking forward to seeing your art! Good luck...
 

pitbulliest

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#56
Saje..lol no hun, I haven't sold anything yet because I just started the actual business aspect...I've been doing this for a long time but the selling part just came about hmm...2 weeks ago? I've had no exposure to say the least lol.

Renee, thanks for all the good ideas :) I'll definately try some out... and thanks to the rest of you as well..

Oh by the way, if anyone has ever heard of WOOFSTOCK in Toronto, I'm thinking of renting out a booth to advertise (300 bux for two days its expensive but TONS and TONS of people come by in those two days..its like a big dog and craft show all in one with hundreds literally hundreds of pet people coming buy)... if anyone else is interested in renting out a booth you can email these guys like I did at the website: http://www.woofstock.ca

good idea...bad?
 
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#57
Smkie ~ you can start all the threads you want. It's actually better for some of us if you have several different threads because if you have so many pictures (and we can't get enough of yours!) in one thread it takes a long time to load on our pathetic dial=up connections, lol!

And don't you DARE delete any of your images! The new members will be missing too much and we won't be able to go back and look at them and smile as we discover a whimsical little detail we missed on previous looks. :)
 

smkie

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#58
The woofstock looks great! make sure if you can that you talk to other "vendors" for their wisdom is invaluable. I will be at one site and hear vendors talking about what show was a bust and what ones are good. They don't mind if you ask either!
I looked for you art in the art forum but didn't see it..do you have access to a scanner? We'd love to see.
Renee I'll fix it better I will will. Thank u, it is so good to be appricitated..wag..wag
happy happy
 
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#59
Pitbulliest, I got a HUGE kick out of the home page for Woofstock! With all of the anti-Pit legislation running amok throughout Canada, there, right in your face, the biggest image on the page is a dog that's so obviously got a whole lot of Pittie genes! ROFL! I LOVE it!
 
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#60
I have the Dog and Pet Art forum now where you can post you artwork to for viewing. I separated the cartoons to the joke forum.

Chazhound
 

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