Someone I trusted just kicked my dog

[Scooter]

:yikes:Wow. I'm in shock. A man I run into frequently and his dog, Sandy, were out on a walk today. Sandy is an 8 year old female lab. Zoe, my baby, is a 3 year old lab/border collie mix who wouldn't hurt a fly. The man knows this, as we have been running into him weekly for almost two years.

Sandy and Zoe love each other. When they see each other (we walk them off leash in a huge field) they run toward each other and play like kids. Adam and I have developed a nice, casual friendship, chatting as the dogs play and chase each other.

Today, Zoe started her "lets' play!!" barking, as border collies do. Sandy was probably tired at that point and didn't respond. So, Zoe started pushing at her front legs, trying to "herd" her. She wasn't playing rough in my opinion, and was just trying to get Sandy to play with her. All of a sudden, Adam kicked Zoe off of Sandy- not hard enough to hurt her, but enough to get her attention and yelled "Zoe Stop!!" Then he said "I've never seen her nip like that before!" I was kind of stunned and just said "She does it all the time- it's how she plays" Then I just mumbled something about "ok Zoe, Sandy doesn't want to play right now, let's go home" and headed the other way.

Now I don't know what to say when I see this man again. I know Sandy loves to play with Zoe, but I fear if I let her, Zoe will nip again and I can't risk Adam reacting like that. I run into them at least once a week and I really dont' know how to handle it. Advice??

 

[bubbatd]

I don't blame you for being hurt if it was all in play !

 

[JessLough]

Sounds like he did not kick her... sounds like he just used his foot to push her off? I do not know, may just be reading it wrong, and not saying that he was right, but it sounds like you may be overreacting if there was no actual kicking and just "pushing" off

 

[Scooter]

Well, I don't think I'm overreacting because it was really somewhere between pushing and kicking, and there was anger in his voice when he yelled "Zoe Stop!!' It wasn't just a gentle push- this is a big man.

 

[FoxyWench]

id agree that hiis reaction was NOT nice, but i also get where hes comming from.

you need to be in control of the dog, when the other dog didnt want to play you should have ended it right there before she started nipping at the other dog...in play or not thats definatly rude (its like a kid comming up and poking you over and over if you wont play with them)

perhaps next time have a leash ready and if the other dog doesnt want to play you can imediatly remove your dog BEFORE it escalates to nipping.

personally i dont stand for nipping like that...
my dogs play rough, but if one does doesnt want to play and another dog is being pushy about it i imediatly step in...

it sounds like this person KNEW you wernt going to step in and felt the need to do it himself...i dont agree with using your foot in any way against a dog outside of an emergency, i also see why he was furstrated and even angry, and you wernt doing anything to stop this behaviour...
personally if someones dog was doing that to one of my dogs i would have reacted similarly, i woundt kick or "move" a dog with my foot in that situation but standing there seeing an owner LETTING thier dog bully like that, dang right id be frustrated and would remove my dog, push the other odg off if i had to and absolutly raise my voice...

nipping an unco-operative dog is NOT play its bullying...

during play if its being recived well and given back, chewing on eachother nipping rolling wrestling ect is fine, but nipping a dog who wont play is not playfull initself. its 100% bullying on your dogs part and you need to be in place to prevent that kind of "play" in those situations instead of just saying "oh its how she plays" imagine that was a child who was pinching another child because they woudlnt play...would it be acceptable to shrug it off and say "oh thats just how she plays?" no...so why is it ok for your dog?

 

[Snark]

I guess Adam was having a bad day, too... but geez, if the dogs are used to playing when they meet and his dog wasn't reacting (with a growl or trying actively to avoid Zoe), then that was an overreaction. I think he owes you and Zoe an apology...

I don't know, my first inclination would be to avoid the guy in the future. The more adult thing to do would be to talk to him about his reaction and let him know that in the future, if he doesn't want Zoe playing with his dog to either tell you before Zoe engages Sandy or ask you to separate your dog from his. Kicking is not acceptable in a play situation!

 

[corgipower]

Today, Zoe started her "lets' play!!" barking, as border collies do. Sandy was probably tired at that point and didn't respond. So, Zoe started pushing at her front legs, trying to "herd" her. She wasn't playing rough in my opinion, and was just trying to get Sandy to play with her. All of a sudden, Adam kicked Zoe off of Sandy- not hard enough to hurt her, but enough to get her attention and yelled "Zoe Stop!!" Then he said "I've never seen her nip like that before!" I was kind of stunned and just said "She does it all the time- it's how she plays" Then I just mumbled something about "ok Zoe, Sandy doesn't want to play right now, let's go home" and headed the other way.

If my dogs are trying to play with a dog who isn't in the mood, it's my job to remove my dog, redirect him, back him off, whatever. It's not OK for my dog to continue to harass, even if it is playful.

It doesn't sound like any damage was done with the kick, and maybe it was overreacting and maybe it wasn't, but I would do whatever I needed to in order to protect my dogs and shield them from being harassed when they're not in the mood, and if that included bumping with a foot, so be it.

Also, maybe he doesn't have full knowledge of dog play vs aggression -- which many people don't -- and was worried that it was going to escalate.

 

[TheGoldenRetriever]

I don't know, my first inclination would be to avoid the guy in the future. The more adult thing to do would be to talk to him about his reaction and let him know that in the future, if he doesn't want Zoe playing with his dog to either tell you before Zoe engages Sandy or ask you to separate your dog from his. Kicking is not acceptable in a play situation!

^^^ That, with a slight modification. First calm down ... difficult but necessary, unfortunately.

Second try talking to Adam ... but keep it as non-confrontational as possible. (Thus the necessity of calming down first.) Keep it non-confrontational not by "backing down" per se, but by emphasizing Adam's size ... i.e., it's a real possibility that he doesn't realize his own strength, especially when angry. As long as you maintain a non-confrontational manner, it puts the ball entirely in his court. An equally non-confrontational response on his part would be to apologize, and maybe in his own mind he'll learn something about himself ... in regard to his reactions when angered.

Third, if he does have a confrontational response and reacts angrily to your non-confrontational concerns ... then you and Zoe find different running partners. This is all assuming of course, that you did recognize that Sandy didn't want to play ... and that you did make an effort to control your playful dog. Just a thought ... but is Sandy a much older dog than Zoe? That may have been a factor in the playfulness vs. non-interest in play.

 

[Scooter]

I'm not an expert on dogs by any means, so I do appreciate all the comments. I may not be clear on the definition of "nipping". Is that when a dog is actually biting or just nudging under their legs to push them? Because Zoe was not biting or using her mouth, she was just using her head and nose to push under Sandy's front paws. Is that nipping?

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

I guess Adam was having a bad day, too... but geez, if the dogs are used to playing when they meet and his dog wasn't reacting (with a growl or trying actively to avoid Zoe), then that was an overreaction. I think he owes you and Zoe an apology...

I don't know, my first inclination would be to avoid the guy in the future. The more adult thing to do would be to talk to him about his reaction and let him know that in the future, if he doesn't want Zoe playing with his dog to either tell you before Zoe engages Sandy or ask you to separate your dog from his. Kicking is not acceptable in a play situation!

I mostly agree with this. It was your job to remove her, but had she JUST started doing that, he could have asked you or gone about it in a much better way. Sometimes if another dog is bothering my dog, I will just stand between the two (assuming there is no sort of aggression, just harrassment) and ask the owner to remove their dog while I physically block him from interacting with mine.

 

[sammgirl]

How long was Zoe allowed to keep nudging Sandy before Adam decided it was enough?

 

[bubbatd]

Good thought !

 

[Scooter]

Sammgirl- honestly, she was only trying to get Sandy to play for maybe a minute or two. It had just started when Adam- reacted. I'm wondering if Zoe actually did "bite" at Sandy and I just didn't see it. I only saw her push under Sandy's legs with her nose and her head. Now I don't know-- maybe Adam saw something I didn't.

 

[sammgirl]

HRmmm.....

Maybe try to talk to Adam and then reevaluate the situation. I know that if Zoe did bite she wasn't doing so out of aggression, just out of, "HURRY UP AND PLAYYYYY!"

Sounds like maybe Zoe is just used to playing with dogs that have a similar energy level to herself.

If it happens again to where Adam is uncomfortable with Zoe's playing and Sandie is not receptive perhaps it would be best to find another play pal.

But for right now I'd find out more why Adam reacted the way he did.

 

[Maura]

I think the man was trying to protect his dog. If you thought another dog was going to hurt your dog, you may have done the same thing. As you said, he really just used his foot to push Zoe off. You might also be angry if you thought another dog was being mean to your baby and the owner just stood there doing nothing.

On another note, this man may know his dog better than you do and she could have been ready to cross a line and go after Zoe if Zoe continued bugging her.

Don't reject this man. Call your dog off when appropriate. Your dog needs to learn to accept "I don't want to play". It is up to you to be aware that physically touching a dog lying down is inappropriate, at least with Sandy. In reality, it would have been better for the man to not interfere and teach Zoe to keep her muzzle off Sandy, but most people don't understand this.

 

[cinnamon]

On another note, this man may know his dog better than you do and she could have been ready to cross a line and go after Zoe if Zoe continued bugging her.

This would be my dog. She has no problem snarling and telling another dog to bug off, she's not interested in playing. Luckily the owners I've been around have said "good for her" for telling their dog she's had enough.. some people wouldn't understand.