Should I give up?

[Gempress]

I've been working on this for a long time (nearly a year), and Zeus will still not do a reliable recall in a real-world situation. I've tried treats, Redyre's hints for a reliable recall, the recall game, using toys, etc.

The problem is his nose. If he catches a scent of something, he's gone like a rocket. It's like he goes into his own little world and tunes out all else. When he *finally* loses the scent, it's like he'll snap back into reality, hear me calling and then listen.

I've heard that this is an extremely common hound trait. But it's so frustrating. Zeus will do an amazing textbook-perfect heel, sit/down at a distance, and other complex obedience, but he will not always come when I call. It's actually rather embarassing.

Should I give up? It's not that he doesn't know what a recall is. When he's not on a scent, he'll do it perfectly, even down to the front position. He'll stop in the middle of a game to obey. Is this the best I can expect?

In the meantime, I've taught Zeus to never, ever, leave the yard unless we tell him it's ok. We've also taught him not to bolt through open doors without permission. I figured that's the best I can do for now. But I would love to be able to take him to some beautiful off-leash areas they have around here.

Any ideas? Or will I just have to accept that it's never going to get better than it is now?

 

[nattirex]

Having the same issues with my hound/beagle/sheltie mix... in the house or back yard he is pretty good albeit a little slower than previous pets... outside on a walk he ignores me completelty... ignores his favorite treats... hounds are just too desitracted by their environemtn from what I have read... I am new to the breed...

 

[Fran27]

Some dogs just are never reliable offleash IMO

 

[ARottMweilerY]

Normally I'm all about positive reinforcement and such, though I too had a dog like this. When I went to the Professional Dog Training school, they taught us all about Electric Collars. I decided to give it a try. Now I have a dog that will come the first time I call her even with out the collar on now. I was amazed, it's so nice to be able to take her places now and let her be off leash. I don't reccommend them to anyone unless you have a professional trainer near you that can teach you the correct way to use it. Most of them come with a video and such, but you really do need a trainer to help you. It will get you your reliable recall. Again, don't use one unless you have someone who knows how to use it or you can REALLY screw up your dog. Electronic collars don't hurt your dog, or zap them or electricute them. I try out everything on myself before the dog, I've had the electric collar on my self including around my neck. It's more like a massage. You first find the dog's working level, you don't try to hurt them or make them vocalize, just to where they feel it. Most dogs are on a 1 or 2 low. Those don't hurt at all on me, and dogs have a higher pain tollerance than we do which means it hurts even less on them. It's almost like a tickle feeling.

~Amy~

 

[Brattina88]

A friend of my father has a hunting hound (some beagle looking dog) that never learned to come. He could always hunt with him, and never worried about him coming back because he trained his dog to sit by his whistle. Even if the dog wouldn't come he would sit so the man could approach and capture his dog. Probably doesn't always work, but I wanted to share just in case.

 

[Gempress]

Hmm. Amy, we actually considered the electric collar. The problem is that there is no trainer in this town that I trust enough to teach it to me. For that reason, we don't have the option of consulting a professional trainer either. Here is the sad assortment I have to choose from:

Trainer 1-Petco trainer, don't like her. Recommends prong collar when she herself doesn't know how to use one. I know; I saw her using it on her dog.

Trainer 2-Basic obedience only, one method only. Not qualified for dogs with specific issues/behavioral issues. At least he tells people that right away.

Trainer 3-Husband and wife team. Competes with their border collies in obedience and agility, has a lot of ribbons in obedience. But I don't like their methods. Wife was giving a demonstration with her BC and told the dog down. Dog didn't listen. She grabbed her dog by the scruff of the neck until it was screeching and squealing, lifted its front legs off the ground and then literally shoved it to its belly. Not for me, thank you.

I really hope the Chazzers can help me. I don't really have a lot of other options.

 

[Fuzz Puppy]

Wow, the trainers seem a bit hars on the dogs, especially the husband and wife team. I'd work on come but not let your dog off leash if I were you. Good luck.
Hannah

 

[Mordy]

I would continue to work on it. It may take a long time, but eventually persistence prevails.

Shock collars are a crutch and nothing I'd personally ever consider. Yeah, there are dogs out there who can deal with that kind of treatment, but why undermine a wonderful relationship and a level of trust built on positive interaction you have worked on so long only to destroy it by some "quick fix" negative method that might not even get the desired results?

And let's stop kidding ourselves here, no "vibrating" setting on a shock collar is going to magically teach your dog to "do this" or "not do that". If that were the case, you could use a cell phone on "vibrate" to the same effect.

That scenting thing is a hound trait, it's what they were bred to do. You'll have to commit to the same level of work to train a sled dog breed not to pull you all over creation, a terrier not to dig and kill small prey, or a herding dog to not herd small children or the family cat.

 

[bonster]

How old is Zeus?

Just curious. Bonnie seemed to suddenly mature after she'd been with us a year, at about 2.5.

With Bonnie at first recall was terrible, and now you have to 'time it right' still. Are you trying to call after he's gone zooming -- personally I think that is a very tall order - and if Bonnie saw a rabbit or such out in a feild she would be off too, so we are very careful.

But - with lots of time and patienence and recall-training when she was attentive (even when a way-away romping she looks back from time-to-time) and periodic food treats on successul come-back it has come to the point where I'm not so worried, and with care and picking the right places she can enjoy free-running no problem.
The positive reenforcement really did work but it took literally months and practice every day. I think I mentioned this before, but with Bonnie 'the chase' was so exciting (and she is a long-term sheltered rescue too) so she may have had some 'romping' to get out of her system first. Now she knows that coming back isn't the end of the world and she'll be back running again before too long. We had months where we had to be really careful with car doors, gates etc - she would bolt for a run, but now shows absolutely zero interest in running off in these situations - a really fantastic development.

Zelda (our new rescue) on the other hand, has a lot to learn, is an out-and-out hunter/racer breed, nervous, command-less and extremely fast..... my new project!!
Luckily she seems to copy Bonnie who's enjoying showing off her obedience.

 

[oriondw]

My dog doesnt reliably do recall at all times.

It depends alot on situation, and because the dog is prioritizing his needs ( thinking dogs) he will ignore the command alot of times.

Inside house with no distactions == 100%
Outside with no distraction == 100%
Outside with dogs or people around == 80%
Outside with suspicious dogs or people == 50%
Outside with bunch of loud people/dogs == 30%
Outside when someone is approaching in threatening manner == 0%

Thats why he's never never is off-leash

 

[Doberluv]

I'm with Mordy on this. If you are ever calling him to come when he is blowing you off, even a few times, that disobeying is being reinforced. Be really careful not to call him when there is a chance he won't "hear" you. You can either keep a long line on him or get him to come by some other means....but not with your command. Or...go to him. Make sure he's successful every time you do call him to come. You'll have to find something which is more interesting than what he's doing and I realize for a hound, that could be difficult. And the reward for when he comes has to be so fantastic, that it is better than what he was just doing. I agree to keep working on it. He's a young dog, right? He may not ever be 100% reliable. I think even the push button dogs who are superbly well trained can still run a small risk of blowing off a command once in a while. Lyric has a very good recall, comes even when chasing a wild animal, deer, squirrels, has come when going toward another dog. He is just very obedient. However, he did blow me off when chasing a bear one time. He just might disobey once in a while. So, being living things, there is no such thing as perfect. IMO.

So, if you're somewhere....anywhere close to someplace which could be dangerous (cars etc) I'd keep him on a long line. Hounds do tend to run long distances after their prey.

I am definitely not into the idea of a shock collar. Even if it's not some horrible electric current going through him, it has to be unpleasant enough to a dog to deter them from what they're doing. So it is punishment and I think that can undermind the trust you need from your dog to continue to build on his obedience, which you've come soooooooo far with, up to this point. He's really made leaps and bounds from what I remember in your earlier posts. Keep his mind looking to you as his leader and provider of good things, so he'll tend to focus a little better on you as he matures more. I understand that this is a hound thing, but I think you can override a lot of it.

 

[Carolyn]

Some dogs just are never reliable offleash IMO

I agree. I know of many people that have trained, tried, done everything and their dogs just didn't get it.

They still got their walks on leash every day, and if they went to the park they were allowed to run attached to a long leash/rope.

They lived long happy lives
I know a good recall is paramount, but if your dog just doesn't have it, it isn't the end of the world. You are a great mum to Zeus, so don't beat yourself up, or think you have failed.

Zeus seems like a happy healthy boy to me, and thats all that matters