Shiloh Shepherds

release the hounds · Oct 15, 2008

why use the AKC standard, if anything they've had more to do with large dogs and the decline of GSD's by not requiring any performance titles to be bred.

How about the German SV standard?

or the FCI world governing body standard that states

"The ideal height at the withers is 62.5cm for males and 57.5 cm for females. An allowance of 2.5 cm over or under is permissible."

57.5 cm is 22.6 inches 60cm is 23.6 inches 55cm is 21.6 inches. So a 23 inch bitch is much closer to being on the big side of the standard not small.

Romy · Oct 15, 2008

As far as I know, correct me if I am wrong, there isn't anything wrong with the way the AKC standard is written. It is how it's interpreted by breeders and judges that has caused problems for the breed.

As to why AKC, Vomdom is in the states, right?

RedyreRottweilers · Oct 15, 2008

vomdominus said:

If your bitch is over 23" she is not small by any standard.

That hole you are digging just gets deeper and deeper.

release the hounds · Oct 15, 2008

yes in germany if your dog is oversized or under sized and is bred, those puppies can not be registered

In the US with the AKC there is a standard that isn't followed, and any puppy from AKC registered parent's is then good enough for AKC registration regardless of size, temperment, etc.

but either way, with any standard, FCI (world governing body) German SV or AKC, a bitch over 23 inches is not a small bitch, in fact I'd call that pushing the large side.

vomdominus · Oct 15, 2008

RedyreRottweilers said:

Compared to the 26-28 inch 100 pound American bitches out there? Or the 30+ inch 100 pound plus males that are ever so popular in America?

Yeah, she's kinda small.

Actually, compared to how big most of the GSDs I see running around are, both of my dogs are rather small.

release the hounds · Oct 15, 2008

That was the whole point, what you see running around are usually way out of standard and bred nothing like a GSD is supposed to be. In reality among working circles, over 23 inches as a bitch is not small by any means, she is on the large side.

That was my whole point in posting the standards.

Jynx · Oct 15, 2008

definately agree "release"....I had a 26" female czech who was built more like a malinois than a gsd,,she weighed in at 70lbs, wasn't a 'fat' dog by any means,,but a TALL one,,way over standard, mostly leg,,but again, way over standard..

Most Joe publics, don't care about the standard, and want a BIG gsd,,(unfortunately),
I'm hoping my puppy stays the height she's at which is around 21" or atleast doesn't go over 22",,she's a great AGILE size and really doesn't look 'small' unless you put her up alongside my 21" aussies..

Big ain't always better in my book..
diane

GSDlover_4ever · Oct 15, 2008

My male is just pushing 24" (maybe 23 3/4"). I dont expect him to be very tall but man is he FAST. I never thought I would say this (well the old me

), but I LOVE his size, and dont want him to get much larger.

DanL · Oct 16, 2008

This guy here is pretty small, maybe 70lbs @ 16 months old. Hits like a freight train- almost has Mal type speed and drive in a GSD mind. This is one of the dogs that my friend bred. He's got the brother to this one who is similar size. His females are all in the 50lb range and he studs out to a guy out of state usually for the male side, but that male isn't too big either.

GSDlover_4ever · Oct 16, 2008

I bet he does hit like a freight train, Dan. My 65lb pup is WAY stronger than my 100# male that I had. Or maybe his drive (which is INSANE) makes him stong (mind over matter, eh

)

vomdominus · Oct 17, 2008

DanL said:

That boy's beautiful! What are his lines? I'm guessing he's got some Fero back there somewhere?

DanL · Oct 18, 2008

I'll find out what his lines are this weekend when I see the breeder at training.

I thought ALL working line does went back to Fero, lol!!! Even Gunnar has Fero in him and he's only part working lines.

GSDlover_4ever · Oct 18, 2008

DanL said:

Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich?? He was a great producer but not THAT great, lol. I have a Fero free working line pup

vomdominus · Oct 19, 2008

GSDlover_4ever said:

That's the problem with great dogs, they and their good progeny eventually get put to so many so-so dogs that they get reputations of being mediocre. My next pup is going to be from Germany and linebred on Lord. My next female is going to be out of Jabina. Basically, I'm getting Ty's parents.

GSDlover_4ever · Oct 19, 2008

I was only commenting because Dan said ALL good working line dogs trace back to Fero, which isnt true. I love Jabina kennels, really liked Jabina Nova at the WUSV

You could really tell the difference in handling and training techniques between Jabina Nova, and the other dog that came out with her (long down). She was very upbeat and happy.

I personally like to see Mink through Crok, and Gildo vom KÃ¶rbelbach. I prefer the "realness" they bring to the table.

Zoom · Oct 20, 2008

I think Dan was making a tongue-in-cheek comment about how prolific Fero is in most working lines, not commenting on how good or poor of a dog he was.

vomdominus · Oct 20, 2008

Zoom said:

Indeed. I was simply commenting about how he, and my other favorite dog Lord, have had their lines diluted and trashed over the years. I still believe in them and will try to own them. Dack aus der KÃ¶nigshÃ¶hle is a great sire who has Fero and Lord and is pretty much everything I want in a dog. He's about to sire a litter at Jabina right now. It's doubtful at the moment, but I'm tempted. lol

release the hounds · Oct 20, 2008

GSDlover_4ever said:

I was only commenting because Dan said ALL good working line dogs trace back to Fero, which isnt true. I love Jabina kennels, really liked Jabina Nova at the WUSV

You could really tell the difference in handling and training techniques between Jabina Nova, and the other dog that came out with her (long down). She was very upbeat and happy.

I personally like to see Mink through Crok, and Gildo vom KÃ¶rbelbach. I prefer the "realness" they bring to the table. ;)

Amen to that.

Bold Canine · Nov 16, 2008

Hi,

I was one of the authors of the discussion on another location regarding the Shiloh Shepherd.

Since, it's a recurring discussion, and since I cannot hot link to it, I have scanned the discussion.

Hopefully, after reading it, some light can be shed regarding the breed.

Any further questions, I will endeavour to do my best to answer.

http://www.boldcanine.com/library/Puppy & Dog Forums - Shiloh Shepherd Page 1.pdf

http://www.boldcanine.com/library/Puppy & Dog Forums - Shiloh Shepherd Page 2.pdf

http://www.boldcanine.com/library/Puppy & Dog Forums - Shiloh Shepherd Page 3.pdf

I hope that I'm not breaking any rules by providing these. It was a very in depth and at length discussion, similar to what I've seen discussed here.

Otherwise, I can start trying to answer what has been posted here about the breed.

Regards
Bold Canine

CharlieDog · Nov 16, 2008

Speaking of working line shepherds, my friends dog just took SECOND at the world! Wo0t!

Nike is a great dog, a very real dog. I love him.

/threadjack...

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