Setting up a successful vet interaction?

[Kayla]

Curious how many have had what they would consider bad experiences with vets?

I loved my old vet in Ontario, but recently moved to Northern Alberta and just had a fairly unpleasant experience with a vet I had heard so many good things about.

I can be assertive, but I'm mostly a laid back, mellow, quiet, friendly person and because I had heard so many good things about this vet I didn't think to explain guidelines for handling.

Odie, who we adopted over the summer has been a farm dog his entire life and has no vaccines that we're aware of so after a lot of work around strangers to make them positive we booked the appointment. I did explain he is a farm dog with little exposure to strangers and that we would be carrying him in as he currently shuts down with a leash on.

The vet was nice in many of the interactions so I felt pretty at ease, until it came to weighing him. She didn't even give us a chance to get him on, she literally just grabbed his collar and dragged him across the floor and onto the scale...

My heart dropped, luckily Odie is awesome and didn't nip, but it's not the point, it totally ruins a lot of the work we've been putting in with strangers and collar handling and I just feel really upset both with myself and also with the clinic.

I didn't even think to set boundaries ahead of time at the beginning of the session.

Just wondering how others go about establishing rules with their vet, especially a new vet in matters that are important to you?

 

[amberdyan]

Agh : / That really sucks that you and Odie had a bad experience.

I don't have a ton to offer here- but my dog growing up was a farm dog. She had puppy vaccines but no boosters until I was old enough to convince my parents she should at least get a yearly rabies shot. She wasn't scared of strangers at that point, but wouldn't do leashes/collars either. Our vet actually came out to the car to meet her and feed her lots of yummy super high value treats. We carried her in and put her on the table and he gave her more, tons of scratches and then we so quick with the shot that she didn't really notice. I would ask if a vet would be willing to give him treats/something he values to make him.

Again, sorry you had a crappy experience : (

 

[BostonBanker]

I'm so sorry you and Odie had to deal with that. Unfortunately, my own experience is that no matter how carefully you set things up, sometimes vets have stupid human moments like the rest of us.

I left one vet over how Meg was handled; I had asked before transferring my dogs to him if he was okay with doing things like blood draws in the exam room, because my dog was very unhappy being taken away from me. Neither of us has an issue with techs/vets restraining her, whatever - just don't try to remove her from the room I'm in.

I reminded them when I came in with both dogs, let them take Gusto out back for the blood draw, they said they would do Meg in the room. The vet tried for at least a couple of minutes - both front legs, both back legs, had her backed into a corner trying to the to the jugular - and he just couldn't get it. Meg was clearly stressed, but tolerated it all without so much as a hard eye. The vet finally said "we'll be back" and dragged her out the door to the back before I got it together to say anything.

I started looking for a new vet the next day, and didn't return. Luckily I haven't had another moment like that with my new (actually my old) vet, but I am very alert whenever I bring either of my dogs to vets, and very ready to speak up and say "please stop so we can discuss this".

 

[teacuptiger]

:yikes:

My response to a situation like that:

"Er, excuse me, I forgot that I had to go to ___ in ten minutes! Sorry, we've got to go" *picks Roxie up and takes her home*

I've never had a bad handling experience, just the vets being morons, but they've always been very kind and Roxie loves the vet. Mostly because our vet seems to actually enjoy getting licked in the face (weirdos), lol.

I could not EVEN if a vet dragged my dog by her collar though. I'd be out of there.

I am so sorry you and your pup had such a bad experience. I hope you guys find a better vet soon!!

 

[sillysally]

The vet really should know better!

I've been very lucky with our vet-she will even get down on the floor with Jack as he has issues being on the table. One thing I did with my dogs was took them into the vet with me (one at a time) when I picked up heartworm meds and let the staff give them tons of treats. The vet also ends appointments with treats. They actually get very excited about going to the vets.

 

[lancerandrara]

YEESH. That vet does not seem very knowledgeable about dogs at all (ironically) or she was just in some kind of terrible mood... though I think it's the former. Most any dog wouldn't be okay with that. :hail: Odie was a good boy!

I've always been immediately upfront about Lancer's fear issues. I don't necessarily explain how to handle him, but I make it clear that he'd prefer I simply handle him myself... just silently not let anyone have his leash, unless absolutely required. :s Mostly, just stating that Lancer "is fear-aggressive" keeps people on their toes so they won't do anything rash. I just make his problems seem more severe than they actually are, when in public, just for safety's sake.

 

[*blackrose]

Coming from the veterinary side, there are times where we just need to get crap done and don't have time to make it a 100% pleasant experience for the animal, unfortunately. We're not there to train your animal. We do our best to keep everybody happy and comfortable, but there comes a time where you just have to muzzle the dog, lay it down on its side, and lay on it, for the safety of everyone involved.

(That being said, dragging an animal to get a weight without even letting the owner try to move the dog first is pretty tactless, especially when they've already told you the dog has fear issues.)

Most owners can't restrain their own animal worth a crap, which is really unfortunate as I think most dogs would be happier having their owner be the one to handle them.

I think the best thing you can do for your dog is get them used to the restraint/holds/medical procedures at home before even going to the vet. Having their feet handled, tail handled, ears handled. Grab a leg and hold it out and have them sit still as if they were having blood drawn from a leg. Have them sit and hold their head up as if they were having blood drawn from their neck. Put pressure on their neck/leg to simulate having their vein held off prior to a blood draw. Check their teeth. Look in their eyes. Hold them in a "bear hug" with one arm across their neck, the other around their middle, retraining them to your body. Make it all a super happy fun time experience.

Visit the vet with the dog WITHOUT needing any medical procedures done. Make it super happy fun time.

When you do visit the vet for medical procedures, bring out the high value treats and reward for the behaviors you've practiced at home to allow handling, but realize that the dog may be pushed past its comfort level and that you can't really do anything about it because unless the procedure is elective it HAS to be done.

And if you have a vet that doesn't try to make it a positive experience for your pet...find a new vet. Some things just have to be done and we can't take the time to 100% make your dog feel happy about it, but it should always be done with care and to make the animal feel as comfortable as possible. And I always make sure everybody gets a cookie. Or three. lol

 

[DJEtzel]

Basically everything blackrose said!

I had a few bad visits with some previous vets. One manhandled Frag a lot as a puppy for some testing and totally spooked him. We didn't realize how bad until he started growling at our new vet when we moved and SHE manhandled him just the same. Then we had some aggression issues with people for about a year until he started trusting people again. The second vet even told a rescue calling for a vet reference (so that I could foster) that he was unpredictable, and should not be trusted with other dogs, especially small ones (it was a small dog rescue)... even though he lived just fine with a small dog. I think it was extremely tactless and rude, jumping to such assumptions. I told her so and left.

I went back to my first vet who knew him and his issues, an hour and a half away for a while, until I found a vet that *I* was comfortable with in my area. I spoke on the phone with the practice manager for over an hour about Frag, his issues, my expectations, our goals, etc.

A behaviorist works at my new vet as a tech, and I actually teach her in agility classes now, so we have become pretty good friends. I had let them know in no uncertain terms that he would absolutely not be restrained for anything from them, if he needed it that I would restrain him, etc. or I would just leave. Not in a rude way, but in a, "this visit can wait, it's not an emergency, we'll try again later" type of way.

I always take lots of treats, and had fantastic obedience on Frag already to help the process. I can sit him on the scale in a stay and no one needs to get near him. I can down him on the exam room floor, roll him over, and stay him for a blood draw, skin scrape, vaccine, whatever. I set him up on the table on his back and positioned him for radiographs on his hips/back while he was 100% awake. They allowed me to give him his oral bordetella vaccine since that required his muzzle coming off. Lots of Look at that for people coming near him (at the vet and away, since his fears of the vet transferred) and acting like they would touch him, etc.

We don't see our vet for much, because it's usually routine stuff, but our tech absolutely loves him for all the progress we've made. He has gone the last two or three visits (in the last two or three years..) without a single growl, whale eye, or tense posture, so I'm really happy I took the time to find a vet willing to work with me, and with staff who understood exactly what needed to be done to "fix" him.

I do a lot of the same preventative stuff with my friendly dogs. Muzzles, great obedience, me restraining when necessary, stopping in for weights, lots of food for handling, etc. Having a vet that you can communicate with and that wants to work with you is the most important factor.

 

[sassafras]

No whyyyyy.

I secretly/not so secretly love to work with fearful and anxious dogs at my job, and a by-product of that is that I get a LOT of them scheduled with me. I am not above muzzles, restraint, etc. but I will generally not just physically force a dog to do something unless it's some type of emergency. It's not my job to train someone else's dog, but it makes my job waaayyy harder if what I do in that exam room makes a dog more and more scared of me with each passing year. It's amazing how much "less is more" and low-stress restraint, calm/appropriate greetings and body language, judicious help by competent owners, distractions, and lots and lots of food can help. The dogs who are truly unhandleable are rare IME/IMO and I think those dogs benefit more from drugs than from "git 'er done."

Have a conversation before anyone touches your dogs, ideally on the phone before an appointment. Ask them if they're familiar with low-stress handling techniques, and if you have anything specific you're working on (in your case collar handling), specifically mention it. Every piece of veterinary software in existence should be able to have special alerts noted ("don't grab collar!" "food allergies, X treats only!") for patients.

It can be slightly annoying for professionals to have these conversations and stipulations with an owner, because on average a lot of owners are clueless and we hear a lot of stuff that feels like... famous last words. But at the end of the day your veterinarian should be willing to be at least a little flexible and accommodating and at least try to work with you instead of insisting on "my way or the highway". Then in return, if they do try and your ideas aren't working, give THEM and their ideas a try.

 

[Fran101]

I start with yelp/review sites.

and have been lucky enough to only have to deal with vets who are on good behavior. Clinics open/close like restaurants and I think vets KNOW you have to be good to every pet owner every time in a city or else you are not going to pay the rent.

Onto the next has been my policy for bad vets, even just annoying ones (please stop trying to push a dental I know his teeth are clean FLUFF OFF). Merlin's vet records has about 6 clinics lol

 

[sassafras]

Just... be careful with Yelp and similar sites. A lot of crazy financial extortion takes place behind the scenes over online reviews. I've seen enough BS happen to people I know well, and been threatened with bad reviews over BS reasons (usually money) that I pretty much don't trust them for anything, let alone medical care.

 

[BostonBanker]

It can be slightly annoying for professionals to have these conversations and stipulations with an owner, because on average a lot of owners are clueless and we hear a lot of stuff that feels like... famous last words. But at the end of the day your veterinarian should be willing to be at least a little flexible and accommodating and at least try to work with you instead of insisting on "my way or the highway". Then in return, if they do try and your ideas aren't working, give THEM and their ideas a try.

If I hadn't gotten back to a vet who is wonderful and respectful of both me and my dogs, I'd be wondering if Minnesota was too long of a commute from Vermont for vet services.

I pay a huge amount for my vet. I originally left them completely over costs - they were quoting me nearly twice what every other clinic was for a neuter and teeth cleaning. I came running back when I realized it was worth the cost to be with a clinic where both the vets and the staff were patient and willing to work with everyone as individuals. If there is a life or death emergency for the dog, or you are about to get hurt - by all means, do what you have to do. If you are running late or having a bad day or just frustrated with my dog, you'd better stop and talk to me before you resort to forcing them. I get it that you are busy and have a business to run and sometimes people are idiots or lie - but that's my dog. If you can't stop for a moment and say "this is what is happening and these are the options", I can't stay on as your client.

 

[stardogs]

If there is a life or death emergency for the dog, or you are about to get hurt - by all means, do what you have to do. If you are running late or having a bad day or just frustrated with my dog, you'd better stop and talk to me before you resort to forcing them. I get it that you are busy and have a business to run and sometimes people are idiots or lie - but that's my dog. If you can't stop for a moment and say "this is what is happening and these are the options", I can't stay on as your client.

^This. I am a little luckier than some because I can wear my Purdue Animal Sciences shirt to first appointments as a silent "I am experienced" cue for staff, but I'm also VERY proactive with new care providers. I do not hand my leash to anyone until we've discussed why, I ask a ton of questions, and I do come in and immediately start working on obedience skills, both for my dog, but also so the staff can see my dog is trained and that I will manage their behavior.

I ask staff to back up (politely) so I can get a weight on my dog without them interfering (all of my dogs LOVE new people and find them super exciting, but they are major distractions for things like stays), I step in and restrain my dogs using proper technique without prompting and if it's something they need a different angle for (swabbing Kes' nose for example) I will let the tech hold and I will feed/pet/cue as needed.

I try to be easy to get along with but I also give people very few options other than to seek input from me or explain something before working with my pet. Management works well for humans, too.

I fully expect my vets to be team players, and if they are not, I'm gone. My current vet clinic is awesome and it only took me one other vet before finding them after I moved to the area. I totally lucked out on that front since I just decided to find the closest vet and try them out.

 

[JacksonsMom]

Love the advice in this thread.

I SO wish I had been more proactive in researching a vet first and checking them out, etc, before just bringing a 12 week old Jackson in. While I believe some of his "stranger danger anxiety" would've happened anyway, I do truly believe that the first few vet visits traumatized him so much that it left a mark on him. I also didn't really pay attention to where I was bringing him to be groomed. Today he's completely and utterly terrified of both (even though we now have a good vet and a good groomer).

The difference was amazing to me when I brought 12 week old Lola into her vet appt. She started off a bit scared, even peed a little when the tech came out to weigh her. By the end of it, the vet was very gentle, took her time with her, didn't just manhandle, even sat on the floor with her first and gave her treats. They even brought in one of their long time daycared dogs, also named Lola, a 6lb poodle to play with our Lola so she got more comfortable. It was amazing to see her blossom and end up enjoying the visit so much.

That never happened with Jackson. He was 100% fine going into the vet the very first time with me but after, was always terrified. There's a few things I regret doing with him- letting him go into Petsmart to get a nail trim, where 3 people were grabbing/holding him, one muzzled him, etc, totally unnecessary as he's not aggressive at all, and any one would be able to see that. 5 years later, he still won't get near the grooming area when we go into Petsmart. Also dropping him off at a groomer where there were lots of other dogs, many free roaming, etc. Anyway LOTS of things I would do different lol.

 

[LMost]

Sorry to hear it went poorly.

Vets like a lot are a bit over work and make mistakes like everyone.
I generally give them a 2nd chance.

There is 3 vets where I take Mouse and they rotate Saturdays. The one I first had a bad experience with, Is now my favorite one there.

Though one of the others is not allow to do anything to Mouse, he is simply afraid of Large/Giant breed dogs IMO. If he is working we schedule for another day.

 

[BostonBanker]

I am a little luckier than some because I can wear my Purdue Animal Sciences shirt to first appointments as a silent "I am experienced" cue for staff

:rofl1: I totally wear agility trial shirts for the same reason. I should go get a UVM Animal Science shirt to wear as well. Maybe a sweatshirt to wear open over the agility shirts: "I have both practical and educational experience".

 

[stardogs]

Maybe a sweatshirt to wear open over the agility shirts: "I have both practical and educational experience".

Hehehehe perfect!

 

[Fran101]

The techs really can make or break a clinic.

I understand the job can be exhausting and taxing but....you should probably act like you like dogs a little bit.

 

[Ozfozz]

There's been lots of great advice here, not much more I can personally add. Just, don't be afraid to advocate for your dog. If you feel something isn't right, speak up.

That said, would you mind PM-ing me your clinic in Ontario? We are in a seemingly endless search for a new vet after our old one retired.

 

[*blackrose]

The techs really can make or break a clinic.

I understand the job can be exhausting and taxing but....you should probably act like you like dogs a little bit.

Totally agree with this. I have a coworker whose a bit more brash about her handling (she's just very straight forward in everything she does), and I wish she'd be a bit more...soft at times. Taking those few seconds to make the dog comfortable with you makes a world of difference. And I'd much rather take the time to make it a pleasant experience for the dog than struggle with a fearful/fed up dog later.