Service dog Training

[Tazwell]

I have this crazy thought going through my head-- Fleetwood goes out into public every single day, and he's wonderful in the stores. He seems to be completely (or darn near) trained to go potty on command, and never in the stores.

I know a few people who ordered service dog vests online, and put them on their dogs so they could go into walmart and such, just for fun-- and I think that's kind of a shame. Especially when the dogs are not well trained, and not in training.

However, Fleetwood's "Dad" has some mobility problems, and his brother is autistic and another prone to seizures. Would it be crazy to consider eventually training him in multiple forms of service?

My train of thought here is at 5 months old now, I would like to get him a "service dog in training" vest, and begin working with him. He would make a beautiful service dog, from what I see now, he has an incredibly stable temperament in public (so far!)

On a side note, are there any mandatory registries for service dogs, if trained by an owner? Or do people just slap a vest on their "trained" dogs and order an ID badge and call it a day?

 

[lizzybeth727]

However, Fleetwood's "Dad" has some mobility problems, and his brother is autistic and another prone to seizures. Would it be crazy to consider eventually training him in multiple forms of service?

No, it's not crazy. A lot of people train their own service dogs, there's no reason why Fleetwood couldn't do the work

HOWEVER, generally speaking, a service dog has ONE handler. I think this is important, because the bond between the dog and handler is very important. Public work is HARD for dogs, they have to show extreme impulse control, confidence, etc., and it's WAY harder if the dog isn't strongly bonded to his handler. With the dogs my organization places, we teach the dog that his one person is the most important person in the world, and nobody else really matters (at least in the beginning, "bonding" period).

While I do think a dog can be trained to do tasks that help a person with mobility problems, a person with seizures, and a person with autism, I really think the public work is going to be too difficult for him to transfer from one person to another.

My train of thought here is at 5 months old now, I would like to get him a "service dog in training" vest, and begin working with him. He would make a beautiful service dog, from what I see now, he has an incredibly stable temperament in public (so far!)

You can do a LOT of public training without needing a SD vest. There are stores that allow pet dogs - hardware stores, oil change places, restaurant patios, vet offices, etc. - where you can do probably the majority of training without needing to go into WalMart or whatever.

On a side note, are there any mandatory registries for service dogs, if trained by an owner? Or do people just slap a vest on their "trained" dogs and order an ID badge and call it a day?

Nope. You don't even need a vest or ID badge, and anyone telling you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

What I would suggest is for you to train Fleetwood tasks that would help these people in the home first. Of course continue socializing him in public, but as far as being a service dog, start him out just in the home. A lot of people don't even really need their dog in public, and I think you'll find that there's a lot of help he can provide without needing public access.

Also work a LOT on obedience. Getting a CGC, TDI, and obedience titles would be a really good start (it's good training, and it also prooves that your dog is trained if you eventually do start training him in public).

 

[scrofford]

I have this crazy thought going through my head-- Fleetwood goes out into public every single day, and he's wonderful in the stores. He seems to be completely (or darn near) trained to go potty on command, and never in the stores.

I know a few people who ordered service dog vests online, and put them on their dogs so they could go into walmart and such, just for fun-- and I think that's kind of a shame. Especially when the dogs are not well trained, and not in training.

However, Fleetwood's "Dad" has some mobility problems, and his brother is autistic and another prone to seizures. Would it be crazy to consider eventually training him in multiple forms of service?

My train of thought here is at 5 months old now, I would like to get him a "service dog in training" vest, and begin working with him. He would make a beautiful service dog, from what I see now, he has an incredibly stable temperament in public (so far!)

On a side note, are there any mandatory registries for service dogs, if trained by an owner? Or do people just slap a vest on their "trained" dogs and order an ID badge and call it a day?

That's a great idea! Just remember, (and I have no idea where you live) in some places a service vest isn't enough. Like here in Washington State in the U.S. in order to take a dog into a store or church or whatever, you have to have a letter from your doctor stating you need that service dog.

I don't think anyone would really check if a dog had a vest, but it is the law here as I have been informed (I'm disabled) and it's just a good idea. Then if someone like the owner of the establishment has a problem with you bringing your dog in, you can show them the letter and they legally cannot tell you to take your dog out.

 

[scrofford]

Nope. You don't even need a vest or ID badge, and anyone telling you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

In the State of Washington you DO need a letter from your doctor. Other than that you don't need anything else.

 

[Hillside]

In the State of Washington you DO need a letter from your doctor. Other than that you don't need anything else.

Isn't that a violation of the ADA?

 

[Fran101]

That is something I'm looking into a lot now
First step in most cases IMHO is finding a trainer willing to help you and that is knowledgeable with service dog work..
Extensive socialization, CGC, etc.. is always a great start!

In the program I am sort of looking into.. the dogs only get their SDIT vests at around 1 year old when they have EARNED them. and they have no trouble doing training and lots of socialization without them
getting a plain vest though probably would help with people leaving you be when in training
(the whole training program takes around 2-3 years..)

There are plenty of public places you can go that are great for socialization. Airports, outdoor markets, outdoor malls, home depot, petsmart, etc...

You don't need an ID. The place I'm looking into provides them as well as a vest and a diploma though.. but in reality, you shouldn't need anything.
Here is some INFO on the ADA and service dogs:
IPAS: ADA Service Animals

I'm still very much in the learning process.. but there are a few people on here who know ALOT more than I do and who I'm sure will chime in on what it takes to be a service dog and such

Oh and this forum is full of useful info
Service Dog Central Community - Index

 

[Tazwell]

I take my dogs everywhere possible, anyway. Home depot, Lowes, and plenty of Mom and Pop shops have allowed me to bring my well-behaved dogs in. However, I have been told that I can bring them in, then half way through my visit, A different associate/manager ask me to leave. I hear a lot of "only dogs that are in the shopping carts are allowed in!" I have explored every dog-friendly possibility.

Fleetwood has a more imposing appearance than Todd and Gina, though, and we're discriminated against even more-- despite how well behaved he is-- to the point that I don't even try anymore. We have only been into Pet Stores lately.

The dogs behave differently with the different noises and smells of different sorts of stores and buildings, so it's something I'd really like to do. I have to imagine I wouldn't be questioned as much or bothered if he were wearing a vest, huh?

 

[RD]

He's at a good age to begin working on public access stuff, if he's got some good obedience training under his belt.

The only thing about him being a service dog for his daddy is that in order to be a good working dog, like Lizzybeth said, he should have one handler. I really think that Fleetwood's daddy should be on board with this training and socialization. Is he willing to undergo that kind of training with the dog? If having a service dog is too large a commitment for him, perhaps you could work on certifying Fleetwood as a therapy dog and teaching him to help his daddy around the house, as well as helping others who need it.

As for public access, you SHOULDN'T be on the recieving end of a lot of imposing questions, but you still will be in some situations. A lot of people are uninformed about service dogs, and an ID vest can help get the point across. It's also good that people know that he is in training before they ask any questions. Often times an ID vest can answer a lot of people's questions and save you from having to explain.

 

[Romy]

Isn't that a violation of the ADA?

Is is. And I live in Washington and have never heard such a thing. Not even for dogs in training.

 

[Romy]

The dogs behave differently with the different noises and smells of different sorts of stores and buildings, so it's something I'd really like to do. I have to imagine I wouldn't be questioned as much or bothered if he were wearing a vest, huh?

Getting a vest is something I'd do, with an "In Training" patch. People will try and pet him and this is a good age to set that boundary of "you don't socialize in public". This way most will understand if you tell them, "please don't pet him, he's in training/working."

 

[Fran101]

I take my dogs everywhere possible, anyway. Home depot, Lowes, and plenty of Mom and Pop shops have allowed me to bring my well-behaved dogs in. However, I have been told that I can bring them in, then half way through my visit, A different associate/manager ask me to leave. I hear a lot of "only dogs that are in the shopping carts are allowed in!" I have explored every dog-friendly possibility.

Fleetwood has a more imposing appearance than Todd and Gina, though, and we're discriminated against even more-- despite how well behaved he is-- to the point that I don't even try anymore. We have only been into Pet Stores lately.

The dogs behave differently with the different noises and smells of different sorts of stores and buildings, so it's something I'd really like to do. I have to imagine I wouldn't be questioned as much or bothered if he were wearing a vest, huh?

Ya, a vest should help you a lot in that case

Technically you shouldn't need one.. but having one will help with people just leaving you be, especially if people are bothering you because of his breed :/ which is all kinds of messed up
Plus I suppose its never too early to start teaching the fact that when the vest is on.. its time for work so he should behave differently than he would just out and about

 

[lizzybeth727]

The dogs behave differently with the different noises and smells of different sorts of stores and buildings, so it's something I'd really like to do. I have to imagine I wouldn't be questioned as much or bothered if he were wearing a vest, huh?

No, you won't be questioned as much if your dog has a vest on.

BUT - Remember that THE SERVICE DOG does not have public access rights. It's the disabled person who has the right to have a dog to help mitigate his disability.

It's just like how a handicapped liscense plate doesn't give you the right to park in handicapped parking spots, being handicapped gives you the right to park there.

So, if you have a SDiT and that dog is not helping mitigate your disabilities (or you don't have a disability), you do not have the right to take that dog into public. No matter how well behaved.

You might have a state law that allows public access to trainers, I know there is such a law in TX (SD trainers have all the same rights as people with disabilities), but I think that's only for trainers that are affiliated with a SD organization. That is a possibility that you can look into. I believe the state laws are all spelled out on ADI's website.

Isn't that a violation of the ADA?

Yes. It's also a violation of HIPPA laws, I believe. The only questions a business can ask are "Is that a service dog?" and "What does the dog do for you?" They cannot ask anything about your disability.

Plus I suppose its never too early to start teaching the fact that when the vest is on.. its time for work so he should behave differently than he would just out and about

This is a common misconception about SDs - that they "know" that when their vest is on it's time to work. But this is not true. I think it stems from guide dogs, who CAN only work when their harness is on.... So they DO learn that harness = work. But SDs do a lot (often, the majority) of their work in the person's home. If you have a seizure, your dog has to work whether his vest is on or not.

Plus you need your dog to behave well no matter where he is, whether he's "working" or just on a fun outing.

 

[milos_mommy]

I thought it was a national law that the only thing you need to provide to a store owner is a statement of what tasks a dog does to negate a disability. You don't need to say what your disability is, but need to say something like "He helps me balance" or "He provides tactile stimulation during an episode to help keep me coherent" or so on.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I thought it was a national law that the only thing you need to provide to a store owner is a statement of what tasks a dog does to negate a disability. You don't need to say what your disability is, but need to say something like "He helps me balance" or "He provides tactile stimulation during an episode to help keep me coherent" or so on.

Yep, that's right.

It IS federal law, but states (and localities) have their own laws too. Generally the law that holds precidence is the one that gives the most rights to the individual. For example, if your state law says that only guide dogs have public access, but the federal law says that all SDs have public access, you can legally take your SD in public.

So if your state law says that you have to have a doctor's note to have a dog in public, and the federal law says you do not, then the federal law holds precidence.

The exception would be with Emotional Support Animals, which are not the same as SDs. ESAs only have access to housing and a few other instances, and you do have to have a doctor's note to have an ESA.

 

[Romy]

This is a common misconception about SDs - that they "know" that when their vest is on it's time to work. But this is not true. I think it stems from guide dogs, who CAN only work when their harness is on.... So they DO learn that harness = work. But SDs do a lot (often, the majority) of their work in the person's home. If you have a seizure, your dog has to work whether his vest is on or not.

Plus you need your dog to behave well no matter where he is, whether he's "working" or just on a fun outing.

Strider definitely works all the time, but he differentiates between The Vest and no vest. He's a very social soul, and when he's not dressed he's allowed to greet people politely and get petted. He still does his tasks and things though. One just means "don't look at anyone except your handler" and the other means it's okay to greet friendly people (unless I tell him otherwise).

 

[Tazwell]

So, I bought this vest for Fleetwood, with the patches that say "Service dog in training" and "Please ask to pet me".

I bought it to help dissuade some of the responses we are getting, and to help us train without people getting in his face all the time. I also love how it has the handle, as well as the pulling D rings on it.

Another "assistance" that I've thought about, is with Fleetwood's Dad's emotional problems. He has angry emotional outbursts, and they've gotten to the degree that he can physically threaten others. It's medically undiagnosed so far, but I'm pressuring him to see a doctor about it. It has the potential to get him in a lot of trouble one day.

Is there any type of support a dog could offer for a condition like that? He doesn't always have a family member there to calm him down. I'm not sure if that can be helped using an assistance dog, or not.

 

[Tazwell]

Lizzy, I looked at the link you posted... It says under Michigan law, trainers have "the same rights as disabled, with picture." I'm not sure what that means.

 

[RD]

An assistance dog can help with a LOT of problems. Dogs can sense tension and anger, Fleetwood could offer tactile stimulation or some sort of distraction prior to or during an outburst. The nice thing about training your own service dog is that you can teach the exact response you want.

What does Fleetwood's dad think of the whole service dog thing? is he as interested as you are?

 

[Tazwell]

Oh yes, I'm always working with him to train Fleetwood, and he's equally (or even more) interested in this as I am. I would love the learning experience, more than anything. I truly don't think either one of us NEEDS a service dog... But I would like the experience and Jordan could potentially use the help.

 

[Fran101]

It might help to make a list of all the tasks you would like him to perform, and then you can go from there

Specific tasks (examples):
- pick up dropped objects
- Support when walking
- Lick hands/nudge when I'm upset

..that kind of thing. It helps to see it all in list form and maybe we could help figure out HOW and what can be taught

as for the emotional outbursts.. I'd say that depends.. sometimes just having the dog AROUND would help with keeping him calm.
and yes, dogs can sense when we are angry or upset, so maybe something can be trained to help (licking hands, etc.. )

I don't know too much, just beginning my research myself... but hope it helps!