Seeking Advice from the masters...

[Alex]

Hello All,

I currently have a 17 week old Newfoundland and a 5 year old 80 lb lab mix. Both have dysphasia.

RAW is not an option, as I live in a very small space, and do not have the fridge/freezer room for the food.

I am now feeding Nutro (Natural Choice Large Breed Weight Management for the lab, and Large Breed Puppy for the Newf). After hours of reading on this site, I've decided to switch.

Biggest Problem? The Newf has an amazingly sensitive stomach, and has to be on a low protein diet, and we're trying to keep his weight down. I can get Blue Buffalo easily, everything else I'll have to order online. So...what would you recommend? I really want to make my Newfie as healthy and strong as possible, and my lab is my life. He means everything to me, and I will do whatever it takes.

 

[Herschel]

They can't speak? Or is it a comprehension disorder? I think you mean dysplasia?

Nutro is a terrible line of products, so please stay away from that.

Has a vet diagnosed the sensitive stomach as being protein related or are you relating that to your experience with foods like Nutro/Blue Buffalo?

Where are you from? You would be surprised as to the availability of good foods. I think even Petsmart carries Natural Balance (which has some lower protein products).

I think we need some more information to provide any decent advice:
1) Is the sensitive stomach issue a medical condition?
2) Does the lab need weight management?
3) Where are you from? (Area code will suffice)

 

[showpug]

I would start supplementing both your dogs with Vitamin C ASAP! Solid Gold makes great Vitamin C supplements for dogs or you can buy the Vitamin C tabs for humans. Here is an article on Vitamin C and hip dysplasia. It will be worth your while to read it. http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm

Next, make sure your dogs are always on NON-SLIP surfaces, especially the puppy.

As far as diet goes, Breeder's Choice makes a good joint diet. Here is the link to it. http://www.breeders-choice.com/dog_products/avoactivedog.htm

Some other great foods are Canidae, Eagle Pack and Innova. You can always supplement with Glucosamine, Chondroitan (sp) and MSM...

Good luck with your dogs...

 

[Alex]

Yes, I mean dysplasia and no, spell check is apparently not my friend.

Why, exactly is Nutro a terrible line of products?

All three vets I have taken him to have yet to come up with any definitive answer as to why his stomach is so sensitive, but all three have told me to put him on different foods, none of which have made any difference. I refuse to put him on Iams, and he wouldn't touch the Prescription Diet. We finally ended up feeding him simple chicken and rice, but could not give him any supplements because the diarrhea would return. SO...I went back to what I have always used, Nutro, and he at least began to eat. He's putting on weight, and he's looking better, but his stool is still very soft. I simply wanted to see if I could get something better for him.

My lab has a stomach like a rock, and can eat anything. He is wonderfully healthy, though a little plump, looks amazing. He is eating green beans and pumpkin as well as his food and hip and joint supplements. He has lost weight, and is only 3 lbs over his target weight. He is on weight management to maintain his current weight.

I am in South Texas, and if you're going to recommend Canidae, I've already tried. No one around here. I'll have to order it from the net.

Last but not least, I have not tried Blue Buffalo as of yet. I have no idea how they would react to it, and PetSmart does not carry Natural Balance.

 

[Alex]

I would start supplementing both your dogs with Vitamin C ASAP! Solid Gold makes great Vitamin C supplements for dogs or you can buy the Vitamin C tabs for humans. Here is an article on Vitamin C and hip dysplasia. It will be worth your while to read it. http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm

Next, make sure your dogs are always on NON-SLIP surfaces, especially the puppy.

As far as diet goes, Breeder's Choice makes a good joint diet. Here is the link to it. http://www.breeders-choice.com/dog_products/avoactivedog.htm

Some other great foods are Canidae, Eagle Pack and Innova. You can always supplement with Glucosamine, Chondroitan (sp) and MSM...

Good luck with your dogs...

I've dealt with dysplasia in the past. I actually took on this puppy because the breeder saw what was coming (she had too...she was breeding dysplasic dogs...) and was going to have him put down. Her vet is a good friend of mine, took him, and I took him in.

Both of my boys get 1000 mg of both glucosamine and chondroitin each day. The lab was diagnosed at 2 years, and is now over 5 and you can't tell he's got a thing wrong.

With the Vitamin C, has anyone ever tried it and had success? This is the first I've heard of it. What kind of side effects am I looking at? I will call my vet in the morning and see what she has to say.

 

[showpug]

I've dealt with dysplasia in the past. I actually took on this puppy because the breeder saw what was coming (she had too...she was breeding dysplasic dogs...) and was going to have him put down. Her vet is a good friend of mine, took him, and I took him in.

Both of my boys get 1000 mg of both glucosamine and chondroitin each day. The lab was diagnosed at 2 years, and is now over 5 and you can't tell he's got a thing wrong.

With the Vitamin C, has anyone ever tried it and had success? This is the first I've heard of it. What kind of side effects am I looking at? I will call my vet in the morning and see what she has to say.

There are no side effects from Vitamin C. It is a water soluable vitamin so it is not stored in fat. Any excess is shed out in urine. I give all my dogs, especially the puppies Vitamin C as there have been a lot of studies on it preventing dysplasia. Pugs usually have bad hips and so do bulldogs. My bulldog puppy is currently taking the supplement. I have never had a dysplastic dog.

As far as calling your vet goes...they probably wont think it matters. Vets in general go off of solid "medical" information instead of believing in supplements and more natural ways of healing. I would recommend you give it a try, you have nothing to loose and your dogs may have everything to gain...

 

[Bobsk8]

See if there is a Petco around and check out teh Natural Balance foods like like Sweet Potato and Fish and Potato and Duck

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/home.html

 

[otch1]

Hello Alex! Sorry to hear about your Newfie pup, you've got your work cut out for you. Very kind of you to take the dog on regardless of condition. Did a little checking for you. As in employee, this is an ideal opportunity for you to make some changes in the PetSmart health and training depts. First, my food choices for your breed, that are considered "holistic", would be Innova, APD by Breeders choice, Wellness, Wysong or Solid Gold. These are a few. All are premium foods with comparable prices. None of which Petsmart carries, as you know. (Contact the distributors in your area and they'll put you in touch with the nearest store that does.) As for IBS, (irritable bowel) and dysplasia... Omega 3 and Flaxseed combination for bowel, 1000mg Glucosamine/ 500mg MSM combination and C - 500 mg. Best to go to a large chain in your area, similar to the Costco in mine and buy these items. Same ingredients, but more expensive when sold in a petstore.There is also something called DGP, that several of my lab clients with dysplasia/arthritic dogs are using and love. Will find info for you. Look at www.premiumfoodonline.com for more info. Now, my thought was... as an employee, your voice should count as someone dealing with the general public on a daily basis. You know what we want, (or are hearing it now. ) I'd be thrilled if I could get my dogs food at the Petsmart, right down the street from me. I feed raw and dry, can't get either. It's not economical nor is there enough of a profit margin, for Petsmart to carry them unless enough people want them. Also, you've been taking some "knocks" over Petsmarts accredidation for it's odedience/training program. I believe there's an online investors meeting tommorrow night. You can find this out through their national site. It would be great if you'd put your 2 cents worth in about this store chain carrying a more advanced holistic line of foods, and start an educational clinic for the general public, via Petsmarts vet clinic. You can talk about your Newfie to start. Next months meeting, how about some ideas for finding a nationally recognized trainer/behaviorist to improve trainer education in their stores and change the publics perception of the classes taught in-store? First things first, hope you'll put your put your thoughts out there to corporate about expanding their food selection, tommorrow. Have a good day!

 

[dirtmcgirt]

Petsmart does not sell Natural Balance.. Petco does however..

So you don't have ANY small private owned petshops near you? 99% of the time they will carry at least 1 premium brand.

Nutro is definitely not the worst food on the market, but it's far from one of the best. Just compare the ingredients to something like Innova or Solid Gold. Natura has a comparison tool and an ingredient lookup tool on their website.. You might want to play around with those.

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=tools-tab

Also check out Mordy's site.. www.petfoodproject.com. Wealth of info..

 

[jojo the pogo]

I'm new, but I have a suggestion. Someone else mentioned Breeder's Choice. They make a food called Active Care. It is for dogs with joint problems and is low in protein and simple (not alot of ingredients) so that it is easy to digest

http://www.breeders-choice.com/dog_products/avoactivedog_lamb.htm

However, when it comes to a young dog with dysplasia the extra protien will help with muscle mass, which will partially compensate for the joint problem.

But you know what works.

My only issue with Nutro is that it is questionable where their meat comes from. The may not be using "by product" meat pieces, but it is rumored that they may be using contaminated sick meat sources. Well, that and the food is really grained based, but most low protien foods are.

 

[fillyone]

...The Newf has an amazingly sensitive stomach...

Have you had the Giardia Antigen run?
I spent 8 months and over $1,000.00 changing foods and having tests run on my GSD (including 2 regular Giardia fecals) only to find out by Giardia Antigen that Giardia was most of the issue. The final step to "perfect poop" was to lower the fat content to 14% and go back to feeding 3x a day.

 

[Herschel]

If I remember, tomorrow I'll try to give you an ingredient comparison between Nutro and higher quality foods. (I'm too tired right now) I'm going to ruin the surprise, though: Nutro uses sub-par ingredients and is chock full of fillers.

Science Diet, Iams, and Hill's Prescription are also less than desirable.

 

[Alex]

OK, where to start. lol in response to otch1, I'm working on it. I can not do anything alone, but I'm doing my best, and can not single handedly change the views of a multi-million dollar corporation. And no, as a general employee, to the big guys, I'm just a flea.

To Showpug, I picked up some ester-c today, and we're starting them both up on it. We'll see how it goes.

While out today, I also picked up some Natural balance (potato and duck) and the boys loved it. It looks good enough to eat, and might become the new food of choice. We're going to give it a trial run and see what happens. It can't get much worse.

I have a few "mom and pop" pet stores in the area, and was able to locate Natural Balance and Pinnacle. After comparing the labels, I bought the Natural Balance.

Have you had the Giardia Antigen run?
I spent 8 months and over $1,000.00 changing foods and having tests run on my GSD (including 2 regular Giardia fecals) only to find out by Giardia Antigen that Giardia was most of the issue. The final step to "perfect poop" was to lower the fat content to 14% and go back to feeding 3x a day.

We have had the giardia fecal run three times as we frequent a near by lake, and it's been clear each time. What is different about the two?

Thanks for your input guys. It's appreciated

 

[fillyone]

Diagnosis can be difficult because it can be easy to overlook the presence of the Giardia cysts during a routine inspection of a stool specimen. In the past, the condition has been diagnosed by examining three stool samples for the presence of the parasites.
However, because the organism is shed in some stool samples and not others, the infection may not be discovered using this method. A newer, more accurate method of diagnosing the condition is the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) that detects cysts and antigen in stool, and is approximately 90% accurate.
While slightly more expensive, it only needs to be done once and is therefore less expensive overall than the earlier test."

From: http://www.filadog.com/giardia.htm

 

[showpug]

OK, where to start. lol in response to otch1, I'm working on it. I can not do anything alone, but I'm doing my best, and can not single handedly change the views of a multi-million dollar corporation. And no, as a general employee, to the big guys, I'm just a flea.

To Showpug, I picked up some ester-c today, and we're starting them both up on it. We'll see how it goes.

While out today, I also picked up some Natural balance (potato and duck) and the boys loved it. It looks good enough to eat, and might become the new food of choice. We're going to give it a trial run and see what happens. It can't get much worse.

I have a few "mom and pop" pet stores in the area, and was able to locate Natural Balance and Pinnacle. After comparing the labels, I bought the Natural Balance.



We have had the giardia fecal run three times as we frequent a near by lake, and it's been clear each time. What is different about the two?

Thanks for your input guys. It's appreciated

Yay! Looks like you made some great choices for your dogs! I really hope it helps, but remember to give it time!

 

[Pomp]

I don't understand why people knock Blue Buffalo. It has no-by products, no artificial preseratives, the meat is steroid and hormone-free, and there isn't any wheat or soy.

 

[Cheetah]

I think the reason I don't put it at the top of my list is because of the menadione, and the fact that it is grain-heavy. Also, I prefer a food that has a specified meat meal instead of just the meat as the first ingredient, because the meal is more concentrated so you are getting more protein. Other than that's it's in okay food, and certainly better than Nutro.

 

[Poppy]

Alex, here are a couple of sites for you to review. Have you had X-rays done to confirm your 17 week old Newf pup does in fact have HD? It is very important to keep your large breed puppy at a lean weight. Any excess weight can cause and compound any joint problems. You also do not want quick growth.

http://www.vetinfo.com/ddyspla.html

http://www.dogaware.com/arthritis.html

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/puppy_feed_program_2006_htm.htm

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/puppy_guidelines.htm

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/feed_program_for_orthopedic_problems.htm

Enjoy, this will keep you busy for the weekend.

 

[Pomp]

I think the reason I don't put it at the top of my list is because of the menadione, and the fact that it is grain-heavy. Also, I prefer a food that has a specified meat meal instead of just the meat as the first ingredient, because the meal is more concentrated so you are getting more protein. Other than that's it's in okay food, and certainly better than Nutro.

Here's what I'm feeding them. Is there anything I could add?

Blue Buffalo, and I also add two teaspoons of a supplement consisting of nutrional yeast, bone meal, kelp, lethicin, and a touch of Vitamin C. I then add salmon oil.

At night, I give them either a chicken wing, drumstick, or beef bone.

Suggestions? Comments?

 

[Bobsk8]

I don't understand why people knock Blue Buffalo. It has no-by products, no artificial preseratives, the meat is steroid and hormone-free, and there isn't any wheat or soy.

Problem I had with it is that my dog hated it....