S/n okay for pets, but not for people?

[BostonBanker]

Heh, I'd go get sterilized if I could... I'm not planning on ever wanting children.

Should we try and get a "2 for 1" deal? Not only do I not have any interest in having children, but I think it is a bad idea for me. My family is prone to a couple different health problems that are clearly genetic; I'd never pass "health testing" for humans. I know how hard some of those problems have been on me; I would never want to make my child suffer as well.

But I'll find myself having more guilt from having my dog submitted to a risky procedure thats not even needed and then die then of the dog giving birth and dying.

But giving birth is a risky procedure that isn't even needed as well.

There is nothing wrong with thinking your dog is wonderful and that you'd love a puppy from her. Heck, I think that with Meg! She's spayed, so obviously it isn't going to happen, but sometimes I dream! Even if she wasn't fixed, I wouldn't do it. Here is this wonderful, sweet dog who I have an amazing connection with, and she was pulled as an adult from a shelter. That connection I feel with her isn't because of who her mom and dad were; it's because she is a darling dog in her own right, and because she was the perfect match for me. I don't doubt that there are more out there, sitting in cages and hoping, who are capable of giving me just as much love and loyalty as she has.

 

[noludoru]

One other point I would like to make is...........ta da you can forget about the Natural way concerning procreating. We humans as animals have really screwed up on that somewhere along the way for our own species. In nature how fast or how many animals are reproduced completely depends on the food source and the availablity of that source. Availability of food controls the population in nature. In humans that has gone by the wayside, because we keep reproducing even when we can't feed ourselves or our children. Which is very evident world wide and in some areas more than others. Sadly that has also crossed over to the pet population because of US. So nature has stopped having the ability to control us and we therefore have lost the ability to control the procreating of certain species that are DEPENDANT of us. Which we also caused.

Gezzz did that make sense???

Perfect sense.

Juicy, yvw, but I think you misread my post..... I truly don't understand the idea of wanting a baby from any of my animals. It's not really a feeling I can comprehend, at least right now. The thought of Midnight ever siring puppies actually fills me with horror, and if Chili or Emma got pregnant it would be an emergency spay ASAP because I don't want to risk them like that. They are my BABIES.... they have no business making more babies, rofl!

However.. if it makes you feel better, I think most--if not all--of us are on the same page as you about the riskyness of surgery. I'd never really want to put myself through surgery, and we got Em and Chil spayed at a less-than-decent place who nearly killed them from the complications of their uncleanliness during and after the surgery. My vet told me afterwards several times that she was amazed Chili was still alive... she came far too close to dying well before her time. That will not stop me from getting any of my subsequent cats or dogs spayed or neutered. I'm just going to be a lot more careful about how I go about it next time, and check out the facilities beforehand--if I can't see the actual facilities and talk to the vet doing it beforehand, they will not get my animals.

 

[misticaleclipse]

I take in consideration of the posts on breeding, and I also take in consideration the bashing it sometimes spurrs up as well. And please tell me when did I ever mention anything about making a profit of breeding my dogs, or that I was going to breed?

Even is I wanted to breed....
A.) Pepe is neutered.
b.) Didi is old & ill.
c.) Princess could be bred if I wanted to, but I don't think I would consider having another doxie, even a mix.

I have wanted a puppy from Didi when she was younger in the past, even if it was a mutt, because I always thought when it was Didi's time to go, I'll still have a little bit of her with me.

Actually when she did had an oops pregnancy with m dog Lucky, I'm not going to lie, I was happy to of had a puppy from my dogs. And it upsets me even more now that the puppy did not make it since Lucky's passing. I always thought about how it would of been for Didi to have a daugther and to of still have a part of Lucky with us still. I know its two different dogs, but I just have the idea that your child is a part of you.........or puppy is a part of the parents. Just the way I was raised thinking.

Exactly, its about how YOU feel and what YOU want, not about what is best for your dogs.

It doesn't matter if you cannot breed your current dogs, its
the fact you think this way and are certainly considering
it in the future.

 

[Paige]

I am not even going to touch this one. I have way too many thoughts that people would think just flat out crazy. I'll stay a lurker for now.

 

[Juicy]

Exactly, its about how YOU feel and what YOU want, not about what is best for your dogs.

It doesn't matter if you cannot breed your current dogs, its
the fact you think this way and are certainly considering
it in the future.

Did I ever say it was best for my dogs? Did I ever say I was going to do it in the future? Sorry I never recall mentioning these assumptions your making about me. I'm not a breeder, or have the knowledge or money to be a breeder. I was raised with a pet dog, beinging it yours, and watching movies/shows/people around me/society, it was normal for YOUR pet to have puppies, like in 101 dalmatians, lady & the tramp, ect. There was nothing never wrong with doing so, if anything encouraged. Who hasn't been asked to of breed your dog with theirs, or hopes to get a puppy from your dog? Of course participating in dog forums it made me think twice about breeding.

And although I did touch some spots on breeding, the topic was about s/n and if it really is that important to do for a pet, if its not a sugery needed for the benefit to their health, but just to prevent possible possibilities. I understand it PREVENTS possible health problems, but things of that nature just happens sometimes, and I don't think it would outweight the possibility of beinging killed on the table.

Just like I've heard horror stories about breeding and experience it, I've also heard horror stories of s/n gone wrong...........and just like the horror stories of breeding made be change my mind............why can't I feel the same about s/n?

Just there's a slight chance, but there's also a slight chance your dog might die from breeding as well. When you think about how many dogs breed and don't die, and how many pets get s/n and don't die, they are about the same. But just as you don't take the risk to losing your bitch from breeding.........why not the same for s/n? I just never want to put my dogs in the spot of that ''slight chance''.

With Didi's eye removal sugery its different though. If we don't get it, she'll lead a life of misery. This is when I need to take that risk of losing her. So I rather much her not make it on the table, then put her to that. My fear of sugery is not going to heal her, so I have to put my fear aside of losing her for her own well being.

But Princess who's a healthy dog, no health problems, no need for sugeries, still has a lot of life in her. I don't want to risk her youthful healthy life just so that she won't have the possibility that she'll get pregnant.

And people tend to also rationalize and think people who don't s/n add on to the problem of pet population. When people have own dogs in the past and never have bred their dogs.

Not against s/n, just not so fond on the bashing and needy rush to get your pets s/n, like if you don't get them done asap, its like you've done something criminial.

 

[blue]

This should have been a poll.

 

[mrose_s]

you know ever since about 10 minutes after this got posted I've been trying to figure out what s/n meant int he title and it only just clicked lol

I do agree with the OP somewhat. I agree that humans are overpopulated. I won't get my tubes tied eventhough I don't want kids, I dunno, I'm aware of them and their mine.

it is an interesting opinion and exactly why my mum doesn't desex her pets (she only got Harry done because he was ubearable when the girls were in heat and broke open a door once to get to her, not worth the risk)

I'd much prefer to have my future pets desexed for all our good,

for a start, I'm forgetfull, all I would have to do is leave my bitch out and have a dog jump the fence then have to go through the injections etc
I also won't have to worry about marking in the house or suddenly changing the rules for the girl when she's on heat.

Don't know what I'm going to do once I get a show dog lol I'll have it figured by then
We've always had intact dogs around, havn't had a litter since I was little but have had to get the injections for both Sophie and Daisy when there has been a slip up (never got proof, it wasa "just in case" type thing)

Sophie won't be desexed now, she's too old. We're always super wary of any surgery done and she's getting frail.

 

[Squishy22]

Did I ever say it was best for my dogs? Did I ever say I was going to do it in the future? Sorry I never recall mentioning these assumptions your making about me. I'm not a breeder, or have the knowledge or money to be a breeder. I was raised with a pet dog, beinging it yours, and watching movies/shows/people around me/society, it was normal for YOUR pet to have puppies, like in 101 dalmatians, lady & the tramp, ect. There was nothing never wrong with doing so, if anything encouraged. Who hasn't been asked to of breed your dog with theirs, or hopes to get a puppy from your dog? Of course participating in dog forums it made me think twice about breeding.

And although I did touch some spots on breeding, the topic was about s/n and if it really is that important to do for a pet, if its not a sugery needed for the benefit to their health, but just to prevent possible possibilities. I understand it PREVENTS possible health problems, but things of that nature just happens sometimes, and I don't think it would outweight the possibility of beinging killed on the table.

Just like I've heard horror stories about breeding and experience it, I've also heard horror stories of s/n gone wrong...........and just like the horror stories of breeding made be change my mind............why can't I feel the same about s/n?

Just there's a slight chance, but there's also a slight chance your dog might die from breeding as well. When you think about how many dogs breed and don't die, and how many pets get s/n and don't die, they are about the same. But just as you don't take the risk to losing your bitch from breeding.........why not the same for s/n? I just never want to put my dogs in the spot of that ''slight chance''.
With Didi's eye removal sugery its different though. If we don't get it, she'll lead a life of misery. This is when I need to take that risk of losing her. So I rather much her not make it on the table, then put her to that. My fear of sugery is not going to heal her, so I have to put my fear aside of losing her for her own well being.

But Princess who's a healthy dog, no health problems, no need for sugeries, still has a lot of life in her. I don't want to risk her youthful healthy life just so that she won't have the possibility that she'll get pregnant.

And people tend to also rationalize and think people who don't s/n add on to the problem of pet population. When people have own dogs in the past and never have bred their dogs.

Not against s/n, just not so fond on the bashing and needy rush to get your pets s/n, like if you don't get them done asap, its like you've done something criminial.

I am sure the chance of dying on the table is far less a risk than the dog getting cancer that could have been prevented by getting fixed. Especially if the dogs are from bybs in the first place. And even if you ARE a responsible person accidents CAN happen, and then you have puppies that have no homes.

There IS a "slight chance" that a dog can get cancer from not being fixed, so why risk it?

 

[shadowfacedanes]

To each his own....however, I will ALWAYS spay/neuter my pets. Why? I've been told that 800 cats and dogs are put to sleep every HOUR in the US. Why intentionally bring more into the world that are just going to be killed?

While I understand the line of thought, and the point you were trying to make...the issue here is responsible vs. irresponsible - not altered vs. unaltered.

My dane bitch is not altered, and we don't have puppies. We won't have puppies.

I'm responsible enough to take Hannah out on a leash only when she's in season and to never leave her in the position to be mated when she's in season.

That's what it boils down to. You're either responsible or not. I get sick of hearing folks shove their beliefs/opinions in my face regarding spaying. These opinions are based on the actions of IRRESPONSIBLE people....not mine.

My chosing not to spay Hannah at this time has nothing to do with being an irresponsible pet owner, nor is it an uneducated decision.

 

[Chewbecca]

I only read the first post in this thread, but I would think the difference being:
Dogs don't know better. They act on instinct. Being that humans are the hierarchy of the animal kingdom (which is only because we have the ability to reason and think about consequences of our actions) it is up to us to take care of our animals.

The ONLY way I think that people should be "Sterilized" would be if they have proven they CANNOT take care of their previous children.
Ex: fathers and mothers who do not want to pay child support for children they have already made, but yet they go out and make babies with other people. THOSE people should be sterilized. If they cannot take care of one child, they shouldn't be allowed to make OTHER children.

 

[Squishy22]

I only read the first post in this thread, but I would think the difference being:
Dogs don't know better. They act on instinct. Being that humans are the hierarchy of the animal kingdom (which is only because we have the ability to reason and think about consequences of our actions) it is up to us to take care of our animals.

The ONLY way I think that people should be "Sterilized" would be if they have proven they CANNOT take care of their previous children.
Ex: fathers and mothers who do not want to pay child support for children they have already made, but yet they go out and make babies with other people. THOSE people should be sterilized. If they cannot take care of one child, they shouldn't be allowed to make OTHER children.

Or if the person is a sexual predator. In my opinion they should be fixed too.

 

[Chewbecca]

I knew I'd forget something...

 

[Groch]

I am astonished when dog and cat owners who choose not to neuter/spay their pets express surprise or contempt if their choices are questioned by other animal lovers.

The fact is, a great majority of dog and cat owners who do not neuter their pets ARE irresponsible or ignorant. And their often irresponsible and ignorant choices DO effect everyone else.

The irresponsible owners may be too cheap or too busy with "more important things" to s/n. Or they may be so self centered that they do not feel any responsibility to help reduce the horrific slaughter of companion animals.

Others may just not know about the health effects, the challenges of raising puppies or how determined unneutered dogs are to go forth and multiply. Or how more likely unneutered male dogs are to bite a neighbor or family member.

There ARE responsible owners of intact dogs and cats. If you are a serious breeder who is honestly working to improve a breed, then you should have no problem supporting your choices, and should not be offended if people ask you to defend them. You most of all should understand the harm ignorant and irresponsible people do to the dog and cat populations.

If you want to breed just so little fluffy can enjoy the joys of mother/fatherhood....shame on you.

 

[bubbatd]

I feel that every rapest should be neutered .....

 

[verderben]

Here's my take on breeding. You need to be able to go to a shelter, look at a young, healthy dog of similar breeding as yours, and say, "Yes, my litter is important enough that this dog can die for it". Because that is what happens. There are only so many homes out there - you make three more puppies, and three more dogs have to die.

I hate when people try to use this excuse because it just isn't true. If someone wants a Toy Poodle they sure as hell aren't going to go to the pound and adopt a Lab/Shepherd/ Rott mix. Just like when I was looking for Huskies to show I sure as hell wasn't gonna change my mind and go to the pound and get a mix a mutt instead. I have nothing against mixed dogs but people looking for specific breeds or traits in a dog for whatever reason just are NOT going to go to the pound and adopt something else instead. and to suggest they would is just silly.

 

[Picklepaige]

I hate when people try to use this excuse because it just isn't true. If someone wants a Toy Poodle they sure as hell aren't going to go to the pound and adopt a Lab/Shepherd/ Rott mix. Just like when I was looking for Huskies to show I sure as hell wasn't gonna change my mind and go to the pound and get a mix a mutt instead. I have nothing against mixed dogs but people looking for specific breeds or traits in a dog for whatever reason just are NOT going to go to the pound and adopt something else instead. and to suggest they would is just silly.

There are thousands of huskies in breed rescues. All the ones we've tried to put the many huskies we get in our shelter in have always been full to the brim. Hey, when we were looking for a basset hound, I went to the shelter to see if they had any (we get like...three a week) and ended up taking home Maggie, my beautiful dalmation mix because her life was more important to me than having a purebred basset hound.

And, if you have to go to a breeder, then this thread is not about reptuable breeders. We're against breeders that are the reason for millions of dogs dying and the "lucky" ones that are sold that have health problems beyond belief.

 

[Chewbecca]

I feel that every rapest should be neutered .....

I feel that every rapist should be killed.

 

[Picklepaige]

No, every rapist should be castrated while still awake, THEN killed.

 

[Chewbecca]

No, every rapist should be castrated while still awake, THEN killed.

You are correct!
Sorry!

 

[ihartgonzo]

I have nothing against mixed dogs but people looking for specific breeds or traits in a dog for whatever reason just are NOT going to go to the pound and adopt something else instead. and to suggest they would is just silly.

I understand what you're saying, totally. But I don't feel this thread even applies to reputable breeders. It applies to people breeding their PETS, to produce more PETS, in a world where there are millions of PETS (Huskies & Toy Poodles absolutely included) being euthanized in shelters.

Nonetheless, I would honestly only consider buying from a breeder who is active in their breed rescue. To me, part of being responsible and improving your breed, includes helping the dogs in your breed that are not from good breeders.