Right or Wrong, who's side is right?

[Adogstale]

Temperament

Ok since I didn't have a clue what an OC was before I spoke.. i did some research to educate myself on this breed.. what a gorgeous dog.. and intelligent.. however, in every site I have read the temperment shows that what this dog did was in it's nature... You may have to subject yourself and your dog to simply staying away from public off leash areas unfortunately. Because he is doing what simply comes natural to that breed of dog... Here's a copy of one of the sites.... Im sure you have read about your dog.. but others here may not have a clue as I didn't what exactly this dogs heritage entails.. and why it possibly has acted the way it has.... it wasen't being a BAD dog.. it was doing what it was originally bred for.. but as the owner? if it were me.. I would stick to private off leash areas ...


"Majestic and dopey, aggressive and sweet, the Caucasian is a collection of opposites, unique in the world of dogs, and for those "at risk", they are worth the extra work they require. It is the Caucasian's heritage to be a defender, and if you work with him to achieve his destiny, he will be a loyal friend and fierce protector, willing without a moment's hesitation to give his life in the protection of yours.

In summary, the well-bred Caucasian Mountain Dog offers the best of both worlds: the gentle sweetness and charm of a devoted companion, with the explosive fierceness of a defending warrior. For most of us, the inherent protectiveness of the breed is only occasionally apparent, when a suspicious-looking stranger approaches a bit too quickly, or when an unannounced visitor attempts to pop their head inside the front door. But for a few, their Caucasian will respond to a real threat with the fury born from a millennia of guardianship -- to protect and defend their family from the threat, or to die trying. (Excerpted from: "Caucasian Ovcharka: The Complete Resource on this Ancient and Mysterious Guardian",

 

[casablanca1]

I just read this whole thread. This is my opinion:
I think dog parks are a bad idea. Just for the fact that I do not trust another person to determine if their dog is "safe". Just as in this case, your dog has shown you, it will bite, even if it is under rare circumstances.
And you are still thinking of taking him back???? That is why I would never visit a dog park, even if we had any.

Reading through the thread, I came to the same conclusion about the same time I came to your post. This guy and his dog are the reason I avoid dog parks.

I get the impression you still feel your dog is not aggressive.

I get the opposite impression. He knows it's aggressive and he likes it. He brags constantly about his dog's tough-guy breed and how it's in this breed's nature to be the hardest dog on the block. I've met others like him, and I wish they'd all take their big, crazy, uncontrolled dogs and go sic them on each other in backwoods dog fights. It'd be a little more macho than turning them loose in dog parks to play survival of the fittest with puppies.

 

[Gempress]

Your dog should not go back to the dog park. I'm not saying that your dog has a bad temperament or behavioral problem; it's just that not all dogs are meant to be "dog park" dogs. Many breeds, mostly guardian breeds, were bred specifially to have low tolerance for strange dogs. If you look at the formal AKC standards for some of these breeds, it will say this:

"An aloof or reserved dog should not be penalized, as this reflects the accepted character of the breed. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs should not be faulted."

Basically, your dog is acting the way that it's breed SHOULD act. And that means that it is not safe to take it to a dog park.

Casablanca, I think you're getting a little out of line. Nowhere does Oriondw "brag" about his dog's aggressiveness. In fact, he seems to be arguing the opposite. You've been going on about people who own "macho" breeds, and giving negative descriptions about the type of people they are. There are many people on this forum who own large molosser-type dogs, and from what I've seen on here, none of them are like that.

 

[Renee750il]

Thanks for that post, Gempress.

 

[casablanca1]

Casablanca, I think you're getting a little out of line. Nowhere does Oriondw "brag" about his dog's aggressiveness. In fact, he seems to be arguing the opposite. You've been going on about people who own "macho" breeds, and giving negative descriptions about the type of people they are.

Oriondw's sig makes it very clear how he feels.

"There are dogs that want to kill to find out if they can, then there are dogs that know they can kill and only do so as the last resort"

I'm not arguing that, once he's cornered by an irate owner, he won't weasel and talk about how his noble dog isn't aggressive but was provoked to behave naturally in accordance to its breed heritage and patterned behavior. The problem is, he knows the dog's aggressive and he likes it. I've met too many people like him to ever feel comfortable with a dog park, and had too many problems with them to need to apologize for calling 'molosser-type' dog owners what they are - trouble.

And sure, there are identical people owning and causing trouble with Yorkies, Maltese, Cocker Spaniels and Basenjis, but the irresistable attraction they seem to feel for large, dangerous breeds means that these people are overrepresented as owners of these breeds.

 

[oriondw]

Oriondw's sig makes it very clear how he feels.

"There are dogs that want to kill to find out if they can, then there are dogs that know they can kill and only do so as the last resort"

I'm not arguing that, once he's cornered by an irate owner, he won't weasel and talk about how his noble dog isn't aggressive but was provoked to behave naturally in accordance to its breed heritage and patterned behavior. The problem is, he knows the dog's aggressive and he likes it. I've met too many people like him to ever feel comfortable with a dog park, and had too many problems with them to need to apologize for calling 'molosser-type' dog owners what they are - trouble.

And sure, there are identical people owning and causing trouble with Yorkies, Maltese, Cocker Spaniels and Basenjis, but the irresistable attraction they seem to feel for large, dangerous breeds means that these people are overrepresented as owners of these breeds.

I think you should calm down... Everything I post you take the wrong way and start flaming. Im on defensive because of people like you, who keep insulting me and my dog instead of keeping a calm head.

You look like a typical small dog owner who tries to put down big dog owners, no offense... As said before, not all dog owners want their dog for looks... In my opinion these dogs ( molloses..) have much more complex personalities then other breeds, but then again thats a whole different argument.

I saw a quote on a russian website, liked it, translated it and put in my sig... It was in related to Pitbull arguments they had and has nothing to do with my dog... but that is a whole different story.

I know my dog is very protective, thats why he's always in under my control. And as I said before, that is exaclty why I was so close to him and not sitting on a bench.

Not once in this thread did I post that, im proud of my dog attacking that boxer. If I did, please point it out. I really dont like when he gets in fights with other dogs. The more I think about it, the more I actually understand why he attacked. Just gotta be more careful, if we ever go back there.

 

[BigDog2191]

That is one of the most irresponsible things I've ever read. Do you just not care if other dogs get ripped to shreds? So, it's okay if the dog attacks one out of every 11 dogs that comes his way? The dog will probably encounter more than 10 dogs each time it goes to the park, and chances are, he might not like a dog there. What if it was YOUR dog that the dog didn't like? Would you want to deal with a traumatized, injured puppy just because someone wouldn't stay muzzle their dog?

The dog bit with the intent of inflicting damage, and you think that's okay? Think about it, dogs have excellent bite inhibition - unless there is something I don't know about this dog maybe it was not socialized properly? is it a rescue dog? - and they won't break the skin of another dog unless they mean to cause harm. Even my Border Collie, who does get annoying to other dogs sometimes, gets reprimanded and it is a "back off" correction. He gets nipped, perhaps shaken by his scruff, and pushed away. NEVER has an irritated correction-bite broken his skin. And don't say that it is just because the CO is big. Dakota has been corrected by Bernese Mountain Dogs, and they've never hurt him. Unless your dog has terrible bite inhibition I just don't see how it could "not mean to hurt" a puppy and still manage to rip it up like that.

I just don't think that a dog who displays unpredictable behavior like that (Even his own handler didn't see any signs of agitation before the dog attacked.) should be allowed in a PUBLIC DOG PARK without a muzzle. Nothing will convince me otherwise.

(Oh and BTW, you said at the beginning of your post that you thought the pup would need many stitches. Now it is only a few stitches. Which is it?)

Did I say it was OK? No, it wasn't OK for Orion to bite. First of all, why wasn't the guy on his side? Nobody has argued the fact that a hyper puppy should be with other hyper puppies or dogs his side on HIS side of the dog park. If he was, this WHOLE incident wouldn't have happened.

He'd been there for 2 weeks everyday. That was the first time in 2 weeks that it's done that. Ripped to shreds? Got one little bite off on him... there's a difference. Oriondw has emphasized how much in control he is with his dog. But it happens; kinda like when a RESPONSIBLE owner's dog gets loose and bolts away... it happens- doesn't mean they're bad owners; or in this case that his dog should never return to the dog park.

Dogs get in tussles sometimes... it doesn't mean they should be considered dangerous dogs or where muzzles, that's JMO.

 

[bjolly]

I know my dog is very protective, thats why he's always in under my control. And as I said before, that is exaclty why I was so close to him and not sitting on a bench.

the problem is, he wasn't under your control, or the incident wouldn't have happened. From what you've said, there was no warning, no reason to expect him to attack, and no time for you to intervene to stop him. Which is why it doesn't sound very safe for you to go back to the park, at least without a muzzle.

And yes, the other dog shouldn't have been on the large dog side, but that doesn't excuse what happened. The bottom line is, you're responsible for your dog and any harm that he might do to anyone else, dog or human.

 

[Renee750il]

The question no one has bothered to ask: why wasn't the Boxer under control?

If I have my dog leashed, or (if I did heel) off leash at heel, and a dog not under it's owner's control came running up at it in an uncivilized manner with no regard for canine etiquette, and my dog reacted in a defensive manner, I'd be all over the owner for not controlling his/her dog and subjecting it to unnecessary danger. You just DON'T turn a puppy loose and let it go . . .

If Orion were posting that he had turned his puppy loose and it had run up to another dog and gotten bitten, everyone would be down his throat for not having his puppy safely under control.

 

[Adogstale]

Have to agree with you there... however, dog parks in general are pretty active.. people just let their dogs off the leash right at the gates and away they go... I have yet to see one dog that wasen't almost jumping out a window when they pull up to the parks because the dogs know they are going to get to run around... At our dog park.. dogs are to be neutered/spayed and yet very few of them are... Suppose to be non aggressive and if show aggessive not to return.. they always do... I have problems with dog parks in general.. I always see these little dogs or young pups who are too young to have ALL their shots.. running around and playing with BIG dogs and yet people wonder why they get trampled.. And who knows what diseases are floating around in there. My vet always says stay away from dog parks unless the dogs are completely up to date on shots... which mine are.... I have seen someone come in with a small springer spaniel about 12 wks old.. obviously in the wrong side of the park... and it ran right over to a big husky and started driving it nuts.. the owner of the husky called it away.. it came to them... and yet the pup kept coming and coming.. the owners just laughed at their cute little pup... well soon the owner of the husky left because they had enough of trying to keep their dog under control when this pup wasen't... so.. the pup went over to another large dog that was just minding it's own business and sniffing trees etc..the pup did the same thing.. the owner of the dog was talking to someone else.. next thing you see was a flying springer spaniel in the air.. because the GSD grabbed hold of and tossed it... the owners of the spaniel had a fit...and tried to have the dog park closed... They were the ones in the wrong..t he dog was in the wrong spot and they did nothing to keep it under control... In Orions situation unfortunately I think this dog was doing what comes naturally to it.. it is not the dogs fault.. it is not the owners fault..the boxer owners should have been more in control and introduced his much smaller dog to the large group of dogs.. but precautions need to be made at any public place at any time with any dog by any owner...

 

[oriondw]

Have to agree with you there... however, dog parks in general are pretty active.. people just let their dogs off the leash right at the gates and away they go... I have yet to see one dog that wasen't almost jumping out a window when they pull up to the parks because the dogs know they are going to get to run around... At our dog park.. dogs are to be neutered/spayed and yet very few of them are... Suppose to be non aggressive and if show aggessive not to return.. they always do... I have problems with dog parks in general.. I always see these little dogs or young pups who are too young to have ALL their shots.. running around and playing with BIG dogs and yet people wonder why they get trampled.. And who knows what diseases are floating around in there. My vet always says stay away from dog parks unless the dogs are completely up to date on shots... which mine are.... I have seen someone come in with a small springer spaniel about 12 wks old.. obviously in the wrong side of the park... and it ran right over to a big husky and started driving it nuts.. the owner of the husky called it away.. it came to them... and yet the pup kept coming and coming.. the owners just laughed at their cute little pup... well soon the owner of the husky left because they had enough of trying to keep their dog under control when this pup wasen't... so.. the pup went over to another large dog that was just minding it's own business and sniffing trees etc..the pup did the same thing.. the owner of the dog was talking to someone else.. next thing you see was a flying springer spaniel in the air.. because the GSD grabbed hold of and tossed it... the owners of the spaniel had a fit...and tried to have the dog park closed... They were the ones in the wrong..t he dog was in the wrong spot and they did nothing to keep it under control... In Orions situation unfortunately I think this dog was doing what comes naturally to it.. it is not the dogs fault.. it is not the owners fault..the boxer owners should have been more in control and introduced his much smaller dog to the large group of dogs.. but precautions need to be made at any public place at any time with any dog by any owner...

Yep. The boxer came flying out of the gate like a bullet pretty much going in our direction.

 

[bubbatd]

Will this ever end !!!

 

[yuckaduck]

Will this ever end !!!

Guess not, beat a dead horse comes to mind here.

 

[Sirius]

That is like the time that the woman accused Sam of attacking her child when Sam only sniffed her. Geez.

 

[SummerRiot]

He's pretty good with small dogs actually. Im thinking it was more of the hyper thing then anything else.

I can agree with you on this - Riot doesn't like hyper active dogs jumping all over him and right in his face. Hes not a big fan, but he wouldn't attack without at least a few growl warnings. lol I've never seen him attack either.. because of the growl warnings

I think you were both in the wrong. Having a puppy in the "large dog" area is not a good idea, but perhaps he thought that because his pup was going to be a medium-large breed when he was older, he thought that he should be in that section for some reason??

Your dog shouldn't have attacked either though. Period.

Puppies are puppies and will act like them. That pup probably had nothing but good experiences with large dogs and therefore had no reason to fear him.

 

[RoxyBoxer]

all i have to say is if another dog bit roxy when she was a puppy id have no problem killing it on the spot no second thought about it. i know this thread is kinda old but you are so in the wrong. i would never let roxy loose with other dogs just for the slight chance she acts like this.

 

[oriondw]

all i have to say is if another dog bit roxy when she was a puppy id have no problem killing it on the spot no second thought about it. i know this thread is kinda old but you are so in the wrong. i would never let roxy loose with other dogs just for the slight chance she acts like this.

If any person touched my dog, I would put a bullet in them right on the spot.

You'd be welcome to try and fight my dog with your bare hands... I somehow doubt that you would get a gun faster then I would pull my out...
Thank you.

Idiots seriously. So your dog got bit you'd kill a dog? Are you that stupid?
Let this thread die and stop posting idiot reply's like the one I quoted.

 

[MyDogsLoveMe]

Well his dog was too small for the big side. But alot of owners "ignore" that rule.

edit: ya I know my dog was wrong to attack.

Orion I think it was a bit of both sides that should take responsibility. Granted pup should not be in with the big boys but it is also the responsibility of the owner of any dog to watch them. It is a catch 22 on this one. You shouldnt of had to leave, you were there for such a long time with you doggy, but I can understand not wanting to cause a rukus and leaving, I do applaude you for that choice. Wise one.

 

[RoxyBoxer]

if you cant control your dog it should be kept in a secured area or put down. murderers go to jail right??? what happens if your dog had killed the puppy? you would still think its okay??

 

[oriondw]

if you cant control your dog it should be kept in a secured area or put down. murderers go to jail right??? what happens if your dog had killed the puppy? you would still think its okay??

Did you even read the thread?