Rescue -- Just Not Into It?

[CaliTerp07]

I disagree.

Many genetic issues crop up in old age. You may not know that your dog will be dysplastic at 8 if you get him at four from a rescue.

If you know that you have two parents who are OFA excellent, they will most likely produce OFA fair to good puppies, who should also be prelimed.

Yes, the medical testing is definitely a plus to a good breeder. My dog may fall apart in a couple years, I don't know. If I was getting a dog in order to try to win championships, that would definitely be a concern. Since I was getting a dog to walk around the neighborhood and cuddle on the couch with, it was less of an issue for me. We'll deal with it when the time comes. She may live a few years less than a well bred dog, or she might not (my lab/shepherd shelter mutt growing up was 17 when he had to be put down, so there's no guarantee).

 

[ACooper]

I've never purchased a dog from a breeder because I've always been able to find stable temperament in rescue. And if something did go wrong, I have that same network of people to depend on--my rescue has a list serve for all adopters (that includes several behaviorists, vets, and trainers on it) where adopters can ask questions and request help. It's not something unique to a good breeder to have support.

It's obvious that the issues you've had with Abbey have completely turned you off from rescue, and whatever, that's your choice--but don't go around saying that you can't find rock solid temperament or know what you're getting unless you go to a breeder. If you do your research, no matter which direction you choose to go, you know what you're getting.

Absolutely agree with every word. Especially the 'support and back up' of rescuing. Most of them are more than happy to help, find you help, and do what they can because they WANT that dog to work out for you just like a good breeder would. And ultimately, they will take the dog back too if it DOESN'T work out.

I disagree.

Many genetic issues crop up in old age. You may not know that your dog will be dysplastic at 8 if you get him at four from a rescue.

If you know that you have two parents who are OFA excellent, they will most likely produce OFA fair to good puppies, who should also be prelimed.

And we could run around different forums finding 'ethical breeder' dogs who STILL had health issues at a relatively young age............I know FOR SURE I can with dobermans.

You could point to MANY dogs who haven't, and I could do the same with shelter dogs. Phoebe being one VERY good example.

 

[sammgirl]

Yes, the medical testing is definitely a plus to a good breeder. My dog may fall apart in a couple years, I don't know. If I was getting a dog in order to try to win championships, that would definitely be a concern. Since I was getting a dog to walk around the neighborhood and cuddle on the couch with, it was less of an issue for me. We'll deal with it when the time comes. She may live a few years less than a well bred dog, or she might not (my lab/shepherd shelter mutt growing up was 17 when he had to be put down, so there's no guarantee).

I see where you're coming from.

I would want that kind of guarentee even if I wanted a pet. Not everyone wants that, and for them I'd say rescue is fine.

I also believe in breed preservation, and we need good puppy buyers and young people who are interested in the breed as well.

 

[BostonBanker]

I have a very good friend who is a trainer and behaviorist. She also runs a rescue, and owns seven dogs who are all rescues. When their wonderful older Bernese died (from a reputable breeder), they went back and forth on getting another well-bred Bernese or adopting a big fluffy dog. They finally decided on a breeder for all the reasons being listed.

They went back to the same breeder, who has titles, fantastic health clearances, does a very carefully planned vaccination/neuter plan with each dog sold, feeds all her dogs a great raw diet, and has a record of exceptionally long-lived dogs for the breed.

The dog is now two or so, already has hip and joint issues, has stomach issues, is very small for the breed, and has a terrible temperament for the breed.

I agree that people who have had bad experiences with a rescue let it color their decisions from there on out. I will preach to the skies the amazing dogs available through rescue, both because of Meg and because of the countless other dogs I've seen who were there for no reason other than human error. I have zero issue with people who go through responsible breeders for their dogs; it is 100% their choice, and I don't see it as doing a bit of harm. I hate people who put down rescue for stupid reasons; it puts my stomach in knots sometimes just reading the falsehoods.

Every dog is a gamble. It doesn't matter if it's got 1000 miles of paper trail behind it, proving that the parents were healthy and kind and could serve dinner on a silver platter, or if they are shoved in a too small crate on a transport from the south. Either way, you could get a dog with health, mental, or behavioral issues. Or you could get the most shining example of dogdom in history. The path you choose is up to you, and nobody else should get a say. But do not rip down the other side because of your feelings.

 

[sammgirl]

But do not rip down the other side because of your feelings.

I don't think I was ripping as much as I was defending my own reasons for choosing a purebred dog.

I find that many more rescue people then breeder people are on the defensive. I've a good friend who rescues and who never misses a beat to bash purebred dogs from breeders, and her friends are much like her.

If someone wants to rescue, let them.

I just feel that people should know both sides of the coin, especially on a forum where most of the people have rescued or are heavily involved in rescue.

We did "everything" we knew to do at the time- we knew the people who owned the rescue (that same friend who bashes breeder dogs) we trusted what they said, we saw Abby before she came home (spent an hour with her) and felt like we were making an educated decision.

I bet 10 to 1 that you'll have people who say the same thing about breeders, and that's fine.

Maybe some would say we should have known more about dogs then, or researched more, but someone in the rescue HAD to have known that Abby was a mess before they adopted her out to two people who just wanted a dog.

Rescues are not perfect and they are not the be all end all to every person's dog needs and wants and should not be promoted as such.

 

[smkie]

I have a very good friend who is a trainer and behaviorist. She also runs a rescue, and owns seven dogs who are all rescues. When their wonderful older Bernese died (from a reputable breeder), they went back and forth on getting another well-bred Bernese or adopting a big fluffy dog. They finally decided on a breeder for all the reasons being listed.

They went back to the same breeder, who has titles, fantastic health clearances, does a very carefully planned vaccination/neuter plan with each dog sold, feeds all her dogs a great raw diet, and has a record of exceptionally long-lived dogs for the breed.

The dog is now two or so, already has hip and joint issues, has stomach issues, is very small for the breed, and has a terrible temperament for the breed.

I agree that people who have had bad experiences with a rescue let it color their decisions from there on out. I will preach to the skies the amazing dogs available through rescue, both because of Meg and because of the countless other dogs I've seen who were there for no reason other than human error. I have zero issue with people who go through responsible breeders for their dogs; it is 100% their choice, and I don't see it as doing a bit of harm. I hate people who put down rescue for stupid reasons; it puts my stomach in knots sometimes just reading the falsehoods.

Every dog is a gamble. It doesn't matter if it's got 1000 miles of paper trail behind it, proving that the parents were healthy and kind and could serve dinner on a silver platter, or if they are shoved in a too small crate on a transport from the south. Either way, you could get a dog with health, mental, or behavioral issues. Or you could get the most shining example of dogdom in history. The path you choose is up to you, and nobody else should get a say. But do not rip down the other side because of your feelings.

:hail::hail::hail:

 

[Laurelin]

I just feel that people should know both sides of the coin, especially on a forum where most of the people have rescued or are heavily involved in rescue.

I dunno, I think chaz is fairly balanced, especially compared to most dog forums I've been on. There are a lot of people here that have gone the breeder route as well as a lot of people that have gone the rescue route. And then there's some that have done both.

 

[Absolute Peril]

well that of course is just foolishness.

yes, parentage is important. but it's not as important as the dog who is standing right there in front of you, being what she is. luce is as freaking rock-solid steady in temperament as i could ever ask. i don't care who her parents were or what they were like. all i care about is how amazing a dog she is.

Of course, "you see is what you get" but I was talking lineage wise.

 

[JessLough]

Absolutely agree with every word. Especially the 'support and back up' of rescuing. Most of them are more than happy to help, find you help, and do what they can because they WANT that dog to work out for you just like a good breeder would. And ultimately, they will take the dog back too if it DOESN'T work out.



And we could run around different forums finding 'ethical breeder' dogs who STILL had health issues at a relatively young age............I know FOR SURE I can with dobermans.

You could point to MANY dogs who haven't, and I could do the same with shelter dogs. Phoebe being one VERY good example.

^^This.
Heck, all the forums I am on (yes, this one included), as well as RL, there are these dogs who are from great breeders, who had health testing and everything done, who had health problems, may it be something smaller and not as serious such as a UTI, or something major like dysplasia. I then look at my 12 1/2 year old mutt who we found on the Highway, and the most she has had to deal with was a VERY minor UTI at 11 or 12 years old.

Same thing with temperament. I know quite a few dogs whose temperament is exactly the opposite of what their parents' was. Some who cannot be trusted with other dogs, cannot be trusted with children, or what have you. Then again I look at my dog, whom my parents took the huge chance of getting when we (the children) were 10, 6/7 and 4/5. Now that dog, has been put through EVERYTHING you can think of, test wise. She has been hit, pushed, her tail/ears have been pulled, she has been jumped on, kissed, hugged, used as a pillow, used as a bed, anything that a child would do to a dog. Cause you know, it is funny when you are a child. That dog is walked in the neighbourhood with kids running up to her and petting her and yes, she has had her tail or fur pulled by a few kids. They have their hands and face in her face, and does she care? Heck no! She loves it, that attention is what she lives for! Now granted yes, she dislikes other dogs, but she can be trusted with them. She just finds them annoying and walks off. There are a few dogs who she seems to like, she seems to be breedist to female APBTs and and any GSDs or mixes thereof.

Now, am I saying that this does not happen the other way around? NO. But no matter if you are rescuing or getting from a breeder, the health and temperament really is going to be a mystery. You can only tell so much from the parents. Yes, diseases that are only passed from mother to puppy you will know with a breeder, but other than that, you get what you get. I mean, are you the same as either of your parents?

This is not to say I will not get a dog from a breeder. I actually KNOW that I will, but that is because I want them from that puppy stage so they are growing up with small animals, as I personally know I will always have ferrets. Now, if I find a puppy of the breed I want in rescue, then no, I will not be against rescuing that puppy. But I also know that I will always have at least one rescue dog, because Rosey has shown me how awesome they can be.

All I can say to the OP is god forbid one day you be in the situation where one of your own dogs needs to be rescued.

 

[JessLough]

They went back to the same breeder, who has titles, fantastic health clearances, does a very carefully planned vaccination/neuter plan with each dog sold, feeds all her dogs a great raw diet, and has a record of exceptionally long-lived dogs for the breed.

The dog is now two or so, already has hip and joint issues, has stomach issues, is very small for the breed, and has a terrible temperament for the breed.

Agreed with all your post, but had something to add onto this part.

My uncle got a cane corso a few years back, from an excellent breeder. Their dogs all had a record of being great and healthy and long lived. At 6 months of age, the dog had to be pts. He had major hip dysplasia and a degenerative back disease that was just causing him nothing but pain. He could hardly walk, and you could just see the pain in his eyes. It KILLED my uncle to see this, and he would have spent any amount of money on this dog. But, the humane thing to do was to have him pts.

Now, because it WAS with a breeder, and the dog was only 6 months, he was promised another puppy from their next litter. Well, he got that puppy (about 2 years ago) and everything has been great Both dogs were great with his 3/4 year old son, and his son and the dog are now best friends.

 

[joce]

hmm... I could care less if a person is into rescue or not. Many people are not equipped to do it and some expect every dog is happy go lucky and get along with theirs and then are shocked when they get a dog with some quirks.

But it is kind of an odd thread to make. Not so much that you are just not into it,but that you sound kind of against it in general.

I have rescued and gone to breeders. As long as you are going to a decent breeder who cares? You are not contributing to the problem then. (and I will never consider a pittie breeder with pics of ties a good breeder. Good lord I get so sick of seeing that. Is there no trust that you must capture the breeding on film to assure people it really happened? )

I can't fault someone for wanting a certain breed but if all you want is a good pet who cares what it turns out like. People going to a pound or shelter are not looking for a dog to show or work much past fun trials.

I guess I rescue and stop on the side of busy highways because thats whats in me-can't blame someone if its not in them. I don't know why I do it, but I can't leave them there. I have brought home strays since I was old enough to wander out of the house.

 

[Xandra]

hmm... I could care less if a person is into rescue or not. Many people are not equipped to do it and some expect every dog is happy go lucky and get along with theirs and then are shocked when they get a dog with some quirks.

But it is kind of an odd thread to make. Not so much that you are just not into it,but that you sound kind of against it in general.

I have rescued and gone to breeders. As long as you are going to a decent breeder who cares? You are not contributing to the problem then. (and I will never consider a pittie breeder with pics of ties a good breeder. Good lord I get so sick of seeing that. Is there no trust that you must capture the breeding on film to assure people it really happened? )

I can't fault someone for wanting a certain breed but if all you want is a good pet who cares what it turns out like. People going to a pound or shelter are not looking for a dog to show or work much past fun trials.

I guess I rescue and stop on the side of busy highways because thats whats in me-can't blame someone if its not in them. I don't know why I do it, but I can't leave them there. I have brought home strays since I was old enough to wander out of the house.

Joce, it was a split from another thread... the OP made a comment but it kinda derailed the thread so I asked that it be split... the OP didn't intend for there to be a whole thread about the comment.

 

[Absolute Peril]

hmm... I could care less if a person is into rescue or not. Many people are not equipped to do it and some expect every dog is happy go lucky and get along with theirs and then are shocked when they get a dog with some quirks.

But it is kind of an odd thread to make. Not so much that you are just not into it,but that you sound kind of against it in general.

As said above, I didn't make this thread nor am I against rescuing a dog

I have rescued and gone to breeders. As long as you are going to a decent breeder who cares? You are not contributing to the problem then. (and I will never consider a pittie breeder with pics of ties a good breeder. Good lord I get so sick of seeing that. Is there no trust that you must capture the breeding on film to assure people it really happened? )

I can't fault someone for wanting a certain breed but if all you want is a good pet who cares what it turns out like. People going to a pound or shelter are not looking for a dog to show or work much past fun trials.

I guess I rescue and stop on the side of busy highways because thats whats in me-can't blame someone if its not in them. I don't know why I do it, but I can't leave them there. I have brought home strays since I was old enough to wander out of the house.

I would never just let a dog of any breed sit on the side of the highway and I have picked up strays, trained them, fixed them and made sure then went to awesome homes but I am just not into getting dogs from a rescue. So, sue me.

.....

 

[joce]

I am at a loss as to why you are arguing then
What you have done would be rescue.

I don't think adopting from a shelter is a person "rescuing" anyway. The dog is safe and fine. If its a high kill pound thats a different story but I think the word rescue may be thrown around to easily.

I would never walk into a rescue and adopt a dog. Why would I need to?


This seems kinda pointless...............

 

[Pops2]

I would just rather not go to the Pound/AC and get a dog. I don't really have time for a dog that can just be a pet. All of the dogs I own are working dogs. They serve some purpose or will be serving some purpose soon. Weather it is Hog hunting, Show, WP,Obedience,French ring, schutzhund etc etc. Yes, I realize dogs from the pound/animal control can do some of those things and be good at them but when I look for a dog I look for a well bred American Pit bull Terrier, that is up to standard with work ethic and the willingness to please. I also want a dog thats parents have done something to make them worthy of being bred, not just some pretty paper'd animal or some byb mutt. You know more of what your getting knowing your dogs background and what its parents where like.

So don't there is no law says you have to. BUT you are so far off the mark about working dogs from the pound, especially pitties (and no showing, WP & obedience are not work). i went on my first hog hunt over 31 years ago, pits are so bred into their bones to catch & hold something that I will ALWAYS get mine from the pound. i can go into any rural pound and drop $200 on 3-4 generic pit bulls and MIGHT have to find a pet home for only one. the rest WILL catch on a hog within 3 trips to the woods. I will NEVER pay real money for a pit for catching hogs.
the cookie cutter standards for pits developed by the kennel/breed clubs were invented by people who had a bunch of culls given to them as pets. no one ever turned a dog away from the box because its nose was the wrong color or had a flag tail. heck back in the day before it was outlawed i saw dogs matched that looked like pure labs (just smaller). in fact the "standards" (& the dumb@$$ mentality that went with it) is what turned the real dog men away from the UKC after several decades and built the ADBA into a viable registry.
the only reason you need to know a dogs pedigree is to breed from it. if you're not going to breed you don't need it.

You don't know what your getting AT ALL when you get a dog from the pound. I don't want a dog with human aggressive parents, and your dog could vary well have HA parent(s) and some of it's parents HA qualities. Also when you look at the dog just because it looks like a Pit bull type dog doesn't mean it is. For example, someone dumped a little merle color Pit bull type puppie and tied it to the light post on my block. I went and got it, feed it, trained it a bit and got it spayed. Then I gave it to a friend of mine who has been wanting a pet. A went back to look at the dog a couple month later and it looks nothing like an APBT. It has a long shedding coat,a longer muzzle, blue eyes, and lives for hunting birds but as a pup it looked allot like an APBT type dog.

I am not trying to argue and I am not trying to knock you rescue people nor am knocking your dogs but they are just not for me.

A LOT of HA is caused by maltreatment and NO pound in the country will sell you a dog turned in for HA (the word liability ring a bell). i know, i tried like hell to get a 3-4 month old pit pup that was turned in by the lady that owned it "because it went after a kid." more likely w/ the trash around there it was just more work than the witch wanted to deal w/ but she didn't want everyone to know she was an idiot (just trust me on this one, the people are scum in that area and if the pup had really attacked anyone they would have shot it themselves). despite agreeing w/ me that the pup was too young to genuinely attack anyone, the ACOs wouldn't let me take the pup because of the official statement on the surrender form.
again not saying you have to go get shelter dogs, just saying your justifications were REALLY ignorant.

 

[Absolute Peril]

I am at a loss as to why you are arguing then
What you have done would be rescue.

I don't think adopting from a shelter is a person "rescuing" anyway. The dog is safe and fine. If its a high kill pound thats a different story but I think the word rescue may be thrown around to easily.

I would never walk into a rescue and adopt a dog. Why would I need to?


This seems kinda pointless...............

I said over and over that I wasn't trying to argue but it seemed/seems like everyone wants to force their opinion ,about me not wanting to go to the pound and get a dog, down my throat. I didn't make this thread, I just posted a simple response to a rescue thread. I think it would be nice to just let this thread die and not argue about opinions.

 

[corky]

Recessive genes are forever. Even the most carefully bred animal can pop up with some of the recessive genes that lead to health problems.

I believe that ethical breeders are also involved in rescue in some way. If they aren't then I question how much they really care about their breed. Especially if their breed is very popular and they don't rescue, then I think maybe they are in it for cash and/or status.

 

[Absolute Peril]

So don't there is no law says you have to. BUT you are so far off the mark about working dogs from the pound, especially pitties (and no showing, WP & obedience are not work). i went on my first hog hunt over 31 years ago, pits are so bred into their bones to catch & hold something that I will ALWAYS get mine from the pound. i can go into any rural pound and drop $200 on 3-4 generic pit bulls and MIGHT have to find a pet home for only one. the rest WILL catch on a hog within 3 trips to the woods. I will NEVER pay real money for a pit for catching hogs.
the cookie cutter standards for pits developed by the kennel/breed clubs were invented by people who had a bunch of culls given to them as pets. no one ever turned a dog away from the box because its nose was the wrong color or had a flag tail. heck back in the day before it was outlawed i saw dogs matched that looked like pure labs (just smaller). in fact the "standards" (& the dumb@$$ mentality that went with it) is what turned the real dog men away from the UKC after several decades and built the ADBA into a viable registry.
the only reason you need to know a dogs pedigree is to breed from it. if you're not going to breed you don't need it.



A LOT of HA is caused by maltreatment and NO pound in the country will sell you a dog turned in for HA (the word liability ring a bell). i know, i tried like hell to get a 3-4 month old pit pup that was turned in by the lady that owned it "because it went after a kid." more likely w/ the trash around there it was just more work than the witch wanted to deal w/ but she didn't want everyone to know she was an idiot (just trust me on this one, the people are scum in that area and if the pup had really attacked anyone they would have shot it themselves). despite agreeing w/ me that the pup was too young to genuinely attack anyone, the ACOs wouldn't let me take the pup because of the official statement on the surrender form.
again not saying you have to go get shelter dogs, just saying your justifications were REALLY ignorant.

Human aggression was just an example and I was talking about a puppy. No one, not even the pound can tell how a pup will turn out. HA or not.

Our shelter/AC requires you to bring the dog back every so often to make sure it is still being taken care of. So, I am SURE the pound would like me bringing their dog back a little banged and scarred up because hogs as you may know are not gentle with the dogs attacking them. Honestly, I have seen dogs get taken away for less then that. I have nothing to hide but it wouldn't take long for them to be on my property looking for "dog fighting equipment".

 

[Zoom]

Why would you go into a thread that was obviously dedicated to the people who HAVE rescued, say that you saw no reason to ever get a rescue dog because they can't "do anything but be a pet" and then suddenly be perplexed as to why people had an issue with that statement? If you consider weight pull to be "work", then so is agility and some of the top dogs in that sport are rescue/pound dogs.

This board is a pretty even balance between rescue and ethical breeders, so there's no huge pressure to go either way. Many people here have a mix of rescue and breeder dogs at the same time.

 

[eddieq]

That's a really good point, zoom. It would be like me going into a "Who likes Japanese Metal" thread and saying, "I'm not into Japanese Metal Music". Of course the folks there will try to sway me to their evil ways and listen to it