Reputable Breeders

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by HayleyMarie, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    ok so I am getting pretty frustrated with the whole "finding a breeder" thing. I just don't get it.

    As its my first time looking for a dog from a reputable breeder I am finding it hard to know what I am looking for.

    I do Know that health testing is very important. Thats a no brainer :)

    So you guys who have bought from a reputable breeder what did you look for?

    What were somethings that made you look at a breeder "shrug" and look to the next.

    And I am not talking about Joe Blow Breeders I am talking about working, showing breeders. That do health testing and the whole SHE-BANG!
     
  2. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    That they have breeding goals. Wanting to better the breed. Doing something with their dogs. Found breeders claiming they did confo, sports, whatever and found they were lying. Actually check on health testing. Some of the 'best' in the cocker world it seems don't.. Some are honest they don't others are not..
     
  3. Mina

    Mina BRT - "the black watch"

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    There are many outlines available on line
    for finding a "good breeder"...

    Sadly, this is far more difficult than one might expect.
    You can follow all the guide lines, do all the right things,
    prepare yourself with all the proper precautions,
    and still get skewered :wall:...

    There are many breeders who look gr8 "on paper".
    They appear to have all the right health clearances (SHE-BANG et al),
    know exactly the right things to say,
    often have slick web sites,
    have plenty of references
    and are still, at best, mediocre :doh:.

    In what kind of dog are you interested?
    Another Westie?
    That might be a better place to start?



     
  4. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I look for dogs I like, and support breeders i like. That's about it for me.
     
  5. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    Not another Westie, But a Cane Corso mastiff.
    Thats why I am being so peticular, Temperment is the thing I am most worried about when It comes to breeders and their dogs.
     
  6. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    Verify health testing, meet the parents if possible or find references for past litters to check temperament, breeding goals, pros and cons in this particular cross, titles in some relevant arena, socialization protocol before the puppies go to their new homes, how do they match dogs with buyers...
     
  7. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Hayley, are you still in Alberta or are you in BC yet?

    The NW working dog expo still doesn't have their dates up, but the IABCA website has a show scheduled for the expo sometime in June.

    The last several have had cane corso specialties and fila brasiliero specialties. ;) Lots of PP tests with corsos being tested too. CGC exams, TTs, etc. It's lots of fun.
     
  8. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Well since Im looking for show dogs, I look at the dogs first. Do I like the type? Do I not like it? If I like the type and would happy to have most of the breeders dogs in my program, conformationaly, I then look into pedigree, and health. If I still like them, I then talk to the breeder. Learn about them as a person, contracts, prices, ect...
     
  9. SailenAero

    SailenAero Hits the Mark

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    If you are not going to show him professionally, look for temperament in the lines. Find a breeder who will answer any of your questions whenever you have them. Look for a breeder who is actually bettering the breed, not just breeding for "pretty" factor. Most of all, listen to your gut. You will know the right dog for you when you see it. Believe me, I never met Aero in person until he arrived in Houston from Colorado... the second I saw his photo on the breeders site I knew it was my dog. This was after looking at hundreds of pups through many, many breeders over about a year.
     
  10. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I think you have the cart in front of the horse. I may have this all screwed up, but I think you were the one looking for one for protection and stuff?

    I think you should get involved in the breed and see what types of dogs are out there and breeders. When you get involved, you learn who's good and who's not, who has what you might want and what you don't want.

    I would never be looking for a dog like this by looking for "reputable breeders" from checklist of stuff. I wouldn't shop by websites, ads, or any of that. I wouldn't care what a breeder said, they all want to sell you stuff and are going to say all sorts of things.

    if you're involved, you'll already know the answers to your questions.
     
  11. Well said.
     
  12. Mina

    Mina BRT - "the black watch"

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    For whatever it’s worth, I’ve actually looked into Corsi, spoken at length to a number of owners and a few breeders. Reading about the breed will only get you so far. Breed descriptions are often vague and generic, especially when it comes to guardian breeds. Every dog is “intelligentâ€, “protectiveâ€, “athletic†and “great with kidsâ€. You’d think there was a tremendous homogeneity within each breed and from breed to breed; nothing could be farther from the truth!

    Temperament certainly is an issue with the breed. Health is another big problem including epilepsy (apparently, especially here in Canada), cherry eye, hips, elbows. Of course, when you speak with any breeder, especially the bad ones, health and temperament are not issues with their lines.

    They’re a potentially wonderful breed (not for me, as I quickly found out, but intriguing nevertheless). But especially with their entry into the AKC this year, you’ll find more and more breeders and, proportionally, fewer quality dogs. There are a lot of unhealthy and ugly C.C.’s out there, many of whom are “championsâ€. Caveat emptor!

    You’ll have to be extremely careful finding a good breeder, litter and choice of puppy. I suspect you’ll also have to be prepared to either travel a fair distance, or have one shipped, something with which, although others do it all the time, I’m personally uncomfortable. (For example, the very best BRT breeders I know of will never ship their babies, and will definitely not sell a puppy to anyone they haven’t met in person. After all, anyone can lie on line or on a “puppy application/questionnaireâ€.)

    All being said, if I were you, I’d forget about the general dog forums and go right to the source(s). Seek out Corso owners and speak with breeders. The next step would be to go out and see as many Corsi as you can, remembering that seeing (especially well-seasoned) show dogs at a show will tell you very little about their actual temperaments and personalities.

    If it’s definitely a Corso you have your heart set on, you have your work cut out for you. Needless to say, there are plenty of other guardian breeds from which to choose. The more picky you are about what you’re looking for in a dog, the fewer the breeds from which to choose.

    I hope that is of some help.

    Best of luck!!!
     
  13. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    I am still in AB. Thanks I will check the show schedual.
     
  14. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    /RANT:

    Why oh Why, do pretty much all Cane Corso breeders have to been lover of CM or be pack leader trainers AUGH!

    Because I am positive I am NOT going to be training my CC with thoes methods and it worries me that my possible puppy will be treated to CM methods augh

    END RANT/
     
  15. Mina

    Mina BRT - "the black watch"

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    It can be argued that they're living in the past, but most of the very best breeders I know of "tough" guardian breeds (CC's, BRT's, Rotties, GS's) are "believers", in one form or another, of "pack leadership". Some are "lovers" of CM, some not, but all will tell you that, if you aren't in charge, your dog will walk all over you - or worse.

    I won't get into the whole CM debate here, but it's quite possible to be a CM-type of pack leader and still be very positive.

    My 2 cents worth would be to forget about all those CM "methods" you don't like. But adopting the core of CM's approach - being calm & assertive, and never losing your temper - cannot be a bad thing.

    I would ask you, regardless of their methodology or approach, regardless of their feelings towards the infamous "Dog Whisperer", have you ever met a truly excellent trainer who wasn't calm and assertive, and who didn't lose his/her temper???
     
  16. hey_jude

    hey_jude New Member

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    I wanted my dog to have the kind of puppyhood that I thought would help them grow into a great adult- that was big for me. My breeder does crate training at about 7 weeks, starts them learning with clickers, has them interact with her 4 boys ages 5-12, has them outside walking around with cats and bigger dogs, and does a lot of desensitization- dropping loud pots on the ground and things like that. My dogs first 8 weeks were a huge thing for me.

    I also wanted to like the look of the dogs too! I wanted not only the dogs to be beautiful dogs- but I wanted the puppys to look healthy. I couldn't believe how many border collie breeders had just kind of sickly looking dogs. Maybe they weren't but I just didn't like the kind of lethargic look i saw on some websites.

    I also wanted someone that would get back to me. I called my breeder and she immediately picked up her phone and answered tons of questions- I couldn't believe it. I had so many breeders never write back- especially as a first time BC owner.

    Most of all, I wanted a dog that would work for my lifestyle. Judging by my breeders website- I could see in her past dogs they were family dogs, some did agility, some played frisbee, etc. It seemed like a great match.
     
  17. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    Thank for the great response. You are right every good trainer I have met has been calm, confident and assertive when it came to the dogs. Which I agree is a great way to train. But thats not the issue I have with Packleader/domiance training.

    And I understand once I get the puppy it wont be trained with dominance training, what I am worried about is the breeder exacuting the harsher methods on puppies . I was scanning through a breeders website who also is a packleader/dominance trainer and one of the training tips they had was to teach your puppy not to bite you should form your hand into a bite like way and "bite" them on the muzzel.

    Thats not a way I want my puppy to learn not to bite.
     
  18. Mina

    Mina BRT - "the black watch"

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    There is certainly more than one way to raise and train any puppy. Each breed, and each individual within a given breed, will respond differently to different methods.

    I'm personally not a fan of using harsh methods and have never found it necessary with even the toughest, most stubborn and "dominant" of our dogs. But it would be unwise to approach the training of (for example) a Cane Corso, with the same methodology and expectations as you would a Golden Retriever.

    This might not be what you want to hear (or read); this is not from a particular breeder, but is fromCane Corso Coalition Main Page. It's typical of what you will hear from responsible breeders:

    "The Cane Corso often possesses a dominant behavior. Both sexes may challenge for the role of leader among their human family and canine pack ... These are strong, dominant dogs and the role of leadership by the owner needs to be established early on."

    You can be "dominant" without being domineering or harsh. You can establish yourself as (the dreaded) "pack leader", using the most positive and benign methods. Having said that, I would agree with the general premise above, that you will have to establish yourself, one way or the other, as "the leader".

    Having said all that, there is an enormous variation in temperament and drive in the C.C. You should be able to find one whose temperament would be a good fit for yourself, your family, and your "training style".

    Any good breeder will insist that your Corso be returned to them rather than ending up in rescue (or worse); as such, he/she will be more than willing to match you up with a suitable pup/dog. I would avoid any breeder who is willing to sell you a pup without having you first undergo a major inquisition.

    This is a gr8 breed, but great care and consideration should be taken before taking the plunge. :)
     
  19. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    You may have a very hard time finding a breeder that will agree with your training methods. You might just have to hope and pray they didn't do all that much training by the time the pup comes to you, many of the behaviors that those sorts would be correcting with harsh methods don't usually crop up until shortly before they come to you, maybe even after. I know when we got Tucker at 10 weeks he was a little angel for about another week.Then he became a little devil. So I'd bet the breeder wouldn't have "had" to do too much in the way of behavior alteration before he comes to you. I'd make sure socialization is happening of course, and lots of that, but maybe not actual training. In any case you will be doing the bulk of training, not the breeder. It'll stink because you lose out on a lot of the mentor aspect of a breeder, you can't take training advice or behavior advice because you'll disagree with it, but if you really find yourself unable to find any good breeders who use positive methods, you might have to look past that.
     

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