Razor's Edge pitties?

[ACooper]

Can someone tell me what is the deal here? I see ads everywhere saying "from Razor's Edge" lines........."100% Razor's Edge" and so on.

Is this some really spectacular APBT line?

*is not real educated on particular lines of dogs*

I did a quick search, and while the name came up a lot, I didn't find anything definitive, so I figured I would come to my pros

 

[Bahamutt99]

Razor's Edge is a kennel/bloodline founded by Dave Wilson. It was based on UKC/AKC CH and GRCH dogs back in the day, and has actually produced some nice dogs. Unfortunately, the modern incarnation of the RE line is basically big, overdone bullies. I'm pretty sure that Dave Wilson himself will tell you that his dogs are American Bullies rather than APBTs, which I think we can all agree with. But as it is, his blood features prominently in the breeding programs of many if not most of the people breeding mutant dogs today and calling them pitbulls. Lots of controversy around this line. Let's just say if you can find them bred right, they could be perfectly standard dogs. But the majority have fallen into the hands of people capitalizing on an image that isn't representative of the APBT.

Here's a little light reading for ya:

http://members.aol.com/razoredgek/
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/132176281
http://www.gottisedgekennels.com/
One of the founding RE dogs: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=2284

 

[elegy]

no. it's a line of overpriced, overdone, oversized, warthog-shaped mixed breed dogs that are sometimes passed off as "american pit bull terriers" and sometimes called "american bullies".

 

[Bahamutt99]

Here's the piece that Dave wrote which sparked the petition above. Emphasis mine, so you can see the parts that really got the community riled up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial

October 6, 2006 12:50 am

AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate.

The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."

We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.

Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now.

The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on.

We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines.

These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event.

To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show?

Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick.

At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs.

We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants.

At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way.
Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights.


DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/102006/10062006/226864/index_html?page=1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dave wrote that letter to the editor in response to this article:

Bully for the bulls?

October 3, 2006 12:50 am

Bully for the bulls?
NINE YEARS AGO, movie theaters in the Fredericksburg area decided that a new Morgan Freeman movie called "Kiss the Girls" hit too close to home. In the fall of 1997, it had been just a year since the abduction and slaying of 16-year-old Sofia Silva of Spotsylvania County, and just months since two other Spotsylvania girls, Kristin and Katie Lisk, 15 and 12, respectively, had been abducted and slain under similar circumstances. With the killer at large, local residents were at once in mourning and in fear.

In a decision that some called sensitive, and some sillily called "censorship," the theaters declined to run the movie, which told the story of a series of kidnap-killings. It was a rare instance of businesses putting community sensibilities ahead of the next buck. "Kiss the Girls" didn't claim any Oscars, but it did gross $60.5 million--none of which came from the Fredericksburg area.

This coming Saturday, the Fredericksburg Expo Center will host the "Back 2 the Bullies Convention," a celebration of the pit bull terrier, the controversial breed blamed in the March 2005 mauling death of Spotsylvania Countian Dorothy Sullivan, an 82-year-old great-grandmother. The Oct. 7 extravaganza at the Expo Center promises "a family-based fun event," states the Web site of the sponsoring American Bully Kennel Club. Certainly some families will find it just that. "Who would have ever thought that Fredericksburg, Virginia, would be the home of one of the hottest events in history?" the site barks. "Top Bullies and the hottest models on the planet, in the same place at the same time."

Will the show go on? It looks that way. Is it in good taste in this area, at this time, after the more dangerous side of the pit-bull breed has demonstrated itself in fatal fashion hereabouts? Many, surely, think not.

Dollar signs have a way of short-circuiting the memory banks. Maybe those who decided that the pit-bull show was a good idea weren't aware of the events of 19 months ago, and the subsequent trial and conviction of the dogs' owner on involuntary manslaughter charges. Or maybe they were, but thought that enough time had elapsed to fête the hackle-raising canine.

But in this community, a good time is not had by all when pit bulls are the stars of the show.


http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/102006/10032006/225383

 

[Bahamutt99]

And if you really want to get into it:

In the words of Dave Wilson,

"Razors Edge was started in MD and DC long before there was ever a Knuckles. My friend Carlos Barksdale and I started it with game dogs. We researched everything we could find. We read every book publicized at that time. Subscribed to many dog magazines like the ADBA Gazette, even some underground ones. We called **** near every breeder that we could find and questioned them. If it said Pit, we were on it. We all had already owned some unpapered BYB Pits. We even had our own Pit club and went hiking and other things back in the woods. Eventually we got enough money to get some real papered, good bloodline, game dogs. We purchased some of the best around at the time. Even paid $3500 way back then for a Grandson of the great "Plumbers Alligator", mainly Mayfield lines. We were very heavy into the game lines. I had dogs from Hemphill/Wilder blood. These were big game dogs.

Later on I hooked up with George Williams in DC and we purchased a dog we named Diablo, from Wildside Kennels. Diablo's dad was a bigger catch dog, "Hollinsworth Bull". His mom was a game girl names "Wildsides Ms.Leaky". This was the turn around time when Razors Edge started adding more size.

The first ever registered "ADBA" Razors Edge breeding was from my Mayfield boy Zeus to a Mayfield girl name Jinx. Jinx was actually given to friend back then named Curt Plater. Now CLP Kennels. He owned the first ever Razors Edge dog. We would lose contact after this for many years before hooking up again.

I had another pure Colby male named Dante that was placed in DC with my man Dave Conrad. Dante went on and shook up DC, but that was the old days.

They banned Pits in PG County and I was forced to move. Eventually through my job in the Pet Store industry I landed a mangers job at a Pet Store in Va. Virginia was the spot for pet lovers! I managed a Pet Store, worked as a professional dog trainer, and still bred bigger ADBA game dogs. Basically, I bred my own now. I also put fliers n the Washington Post explaining what the breed was and what Razors Edge was. I had to move to Va.

I hooked up with Jeannie Howe who became a co-owner of Razors Edge.
I met a guy name Ron Smith who came aboard and took it to another level.
I saw this blue dog named "Steel Town Blue Monday"! I was hooked! Ron already knew every UKC and AKC breeder under the son. He had been researching on his own for years. So this man had all the pictures, info, etc…. He had fliers and pictures from every AKC and UKC breeder from Coast to coast. He literally had pictures of almost all the dogs in all these pedigrees. That man really is the "Pit Guru".

We first contact Cock 'n' Bull Kennels, the ones that produced Monday. They turned us onto people in Cali with that blood. Candace Eggart was one. Candy sent us pictures of what she had and what she had going on. Just to give you a time frame. She sold a dog years later to Tony Moore named Showtime! Showtime went on to be one of the foundation bitches in the Greyline! So this was years before Greyline was even around.

We went to every breeder on the East Coast. Up north to Bobby Morehouse, Beth Jones, My man Lee Fitzgerald, Flying A's, Minot's Ledge, etc…… We actually purchased a blue brindle female named "Sadey" from Minot's Ledge. This litter was had an extraordinary pedigree. The top half were mainly Flying A's dogs like "Oreo" and "Reo Speedwagon". Dogs I had seen and liked. You could see in the extended pedigree how these dogs stemmed from Ruffian dogs. Then you could see how it went back even further from the AKC Ruffian dog to the UKC Colby dogs. This top half of the pedigree actually showed how Pits eventually were registered as Staffs! I thought that was cool to see on paper and in a dog I owned. Then the bottom half of the ped went right back to Stratton dogs. Dogs like Going light Barney, dogs I grew up reading about! Thanks to Richard Stratton, LOL! Then behind them were the same Colby dogs I saw on the top half of the pedigree. So I had this dog that showed the history of the Am.Staff and the directions the Colby line went in the UKC. We also purchased a male named "Razors Edge Blue Maxx". His top half was a dog named "StoryTime's Upon this Rock" AKA "Peter" Peter was a dog bred by Beth Jones. He was a big ass dog, but kinda ugly. They bred him to "Wassuc's Farm Maggie May". I really liked this compact girl. We researched her lines and found she was Ryan. When we got to see the Ryan dogs we were surprised to see they were game dogs. They were AKC registered Staffs, but they still bred for game dogs! This was something I had never seen, I'm sure that's why the AKC people didn't like that line. However; I loved it! Bully, game, blue, staffs! Now that's what I am talking about! LOL Maxx was our boy from this blood. Now Razors Edge was big ADBA game dogs, one UKC Blue Brindle girl, and a Big hot Blue Fawn AKC boy.

In Va there was Sharon Stone of Cloverhill, who had the biggest Staffs I had ever seen! Her old stuff was huge! Too tall for what I was looking for, but huge! They changed years later and went more showy. Paco, was in my opinion actually a throw back of her older days. Ginny York, Pam Perdue, GiGi, The Garretts, etc….We visited them all. Even went down to Florida and checked out Marsha Woods. Met KC Courtier of Watchdog Kennels. Eventually, we went up to Md and met Kimmar Kennels. As soon as I stepped on the ranch, I knew I had found the build I was looking for! The Razors Edge package was almost complete.

We also had been advertising in the Washington Post for many years. Some young Kats from DC used to come down and hang out and bring their dogs. Edwin Salinas and Joey Nevils were two of them. These guys had been buying dogs from Kimmar and mixing their own stuff in them too. Kimmar used to have an add in the post under the Pit Bull adds, it said "Petey pups". They didn't want their dogs to be labeled as Pits; but they advertised directly under Pits? Hmmmmmm? Not as Staff? Anyway, local Kats knew the deal and picked up a lot of her dogs. Joey, Edwin, Joey's pop, and their boys had a bunch of these dogs. Even some old friends of mine Jerry and Gerrold had yards with these dogs. We all also had game stuff in the mix. I tapped into a lot of their dogs as well.
In Kimmar's yard I learned a lot about breeding and genetics. I spent every weekend there for almost three years. I actually put on a training class for all her buyers every Sunday.

Razors Edge had been breeding now for a few generations. We even used a lot of her dogs from other people in the mix. Ron, also had some York dogs, and some other AKC stuff, we experimented with. Before we got Knuckles or any of them, Razors Edge was already in the game. Kimmar actually used our dog Maxx for some breedings. Eventually we purchased around 15 dogs from her line, including Knuckles and Rage. While these pups were growing, Razors Edge already had it's formula. We just wanted a different head. We also were not given papers on some of these dogs and they had to be UKC registered instead! This is where Razors Edge became heavily involved in UKC.
Ron made a sharp turn and went back into the game dogs. He jumped heavy into the RedBoy line and vanished?

..................

 

[Bahamutt99]

Continued:

I started searching for a better head and came into some Watchdog stuff. KC was not breeding anymore, so I had to find that blood somewhere else. I bought dogs from Grapevine Kennels. I hit up Hughzee's, who I believe later on became Chaos Kennels. We had been talking to Pam from Gaff Kennels for a few years, and really liked a boy name Seiko! So we got a dog from her. We experimented with a lot of lines and different dogs. Razors Edge started having a real consistent look. The heads were big, but we still wanted the to be a little more blocky. A few generations later it was pretty much there.

The reason for posting this is because we have been asked how this line began. Also to show that it goes way beyond the dogs you see today. It wasn't just as easy as breeding two dogs and waiting a couple of generations and calling it a line. This was creation from research, and as you can see, many years and lines went into it. This is just the backbone info too. Razors Edge had many ears to follow before the line was complete.

Razors Edge Maxx had kids featured on the cover of DogWorld at this time. So the name was out, and Knuckles was still a pup!

Then one day a man called from an advertisement we placed in The Washington Post. He came by with this little blocky head blue puppy male he called Mr.Brooks. There it was, the final ingredient. By the way, this was 1992 ish. Gary and I collaborated on many breedings from that point on. We both started showing our dogs and doing quite well in the ring. By 1994 Razors Edge had it's final look and was consistently producing it. Thanks to all these lines and people involved. A lot happened from that point on…..but that's an even longer story. A lot of people claim to know these dogs and this line; but this is before they got into the dogs.

Dogs like ShortShot were made almost 4 years later and remained in Razors Edge yard until around 1999. Then we were reunited with an old friend Curt, and he was placed with him. He had the first RE dog ever made and he got one of the best RE dogs created!

I use him for an example, to explain how these dogs went into other yards and onto other lines and kennels. Razors Edge dogs were always placed amongst friends. That was the point of the line, to share with everyone. A lot of the guys came around years later and also got into this line. No this isn't against True Tank, like it may be perceived. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is people discrediting the line and saying it's just this and this. Without giving credit to all the years it took to make it. Now the way I see TT posting these days is very respectful. There is an understanding, they use this line as their foundation. Maybe things haven't gone smooth, but now it has gone in a better direction. Respect for that. Respect for using this line."

here's Shortshots ped, Knuckles in second generation back, you can go back and see what kind of dogs went into the foundation of his line

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=231233

here's their new registry

http://www.abkcdogs.org/

 

[iwantmypup]

I was wondering about these also!

 

[Squishy22]

no. it's a line of overpriced, overdone, oversized, warthog-shaped mixed breed dogs that are sometimes passed off as "american pit bull terriers" and sometimes called "american bullies".

Yup, thats it in a nutshell.

They are a designer breed in my opinion. Not the little froofroo kind like shihpoos or maltipoos. The kind thats popular with tough guys or wannabe gangstas as a status symbol.

Look up "pit bull breeders" and most will be the overdone kind. Razors edge as well as other over done lines. Razors edge is not the only one, trust me.

 

[Squishy22]

An example of what these dogs look like. These dogs come from razors edge, greyline, and gotti. Obviously you can see the influence of english bulldog. These dogs are not pure bred.

 

[xpaeanx]

OMG! I checked the last link... gottikennels... those dogs were.... Idk... not pitbulls...

 

[bubbatd]

They don't appeal to me at all !!! Look distorted .

 

[Maxy24]

yeah, they look like they function well

 

[LauraLeigh]

All I can say is eeeewwwwwwwww................:yikes:

 

[Renee750il]

Now this is an APBT

(I couldn't resist . . . she is being SO sweet . . . )

 

[Boemy]

Those dogs are what I think of as "coffee table dogs."

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

Look on the bright side, you could probably outrun those "evil monsters"

On a serious note, those dogs look deformed. Ugh, not my idea of an APBT. I saw the most beautiful APBT the other day, and she was no more that 40lbs but was built like a rock. Now that dog (even though she was short and small) gave me the impression of power and strength, not like those pics posted on this thread...yuck

 

[2nd2none]

OMG! I checked the last link... gottikennels... those dogs were.... Idk... not pitbulls...

no, they're not. as mentioned, they're a mix, tho i'm not certain i'd personally consider them "designer", more like a disgrace, if you ask me. noteably they have "huge heads" and yeah, are riddled with health problems. i'm actually amazed many of them can walk, much less attempt to jump up on a couch....

 

[Romy]

Now this is an APBT

(I couldn't resist . . . she is being SO sweet . . . )

Watch out Renee! She's getting her lasers warmed up, you better not turn your back on her! :rofl1:

Anyway, the razors edge style dogs aren't the type I would run out and find on purpose, but they do have bully smiles. Pretty sure if I saw one up for adoption......and had the space....or had to make space....it would be hard to resist.

 

[DanL]

Those Gotti dogs look like they'd pass out half way around the block. Bred for companionship- yeah, collars with 2" spikes are what we all use for our companion dogs.

 

[MelissaCato]

Nemos is line bred x 4 with Gotti x Greyline x Razor's Edge. Reg. UKC APBT and AKC Am Staff. The working line owners and the showline owners are always at odds. Same with the GSD .. etc.

I bought Nemos for 1,500.00 with a return contract @ 2 years old, Nemos was sold back to the breeder a few months ago.

He is 20 inches at the shoulder, weighed 62 pounds on return. The breeder did say he would put him on a diet. His new pix he sent me look like he lost 10pounds. Nemos is prolly pissed.

He's won 2 Titles since.