"rare" GSD breeder

[Sapphire-Light]

Jeez, this breeder are spetialist on breeding GSD whit huge standar Disqualifications types. :yikes:

Such as long hair, "rare" colors as liver, white, silver, blue, all red.
Few of them has blue eyes.
Sizes 29'' and up on males (the akc size limit is 26")


http://www.pets4you.com/pages/snowcloud.html
and they say:

I felt a great privilege to be able to train and show these "special" dogs.

They also claim to have a long haired german line stud, but they don't mention anyware that they keep the akc and german lines apart.
And the head of that dog dosen't seem to be too mush german line to me.

 

[ChRotties]

Ah, yes, yet another "rare" byb.

Gag

 

[Sunnierhawk0]

Anytime you see they accept visa/mastercard.... RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!!

 

[Sweet72947]

None of those colors are "rare". I see them all the time. Well, except blue. But there certainly isn't a shortage of white & black shepherds around here.

 

[Sapphire-Light]

Well solid black is accepted in the standar, but all the others colors there not.

In a add they have in dog fancy they say "winners of obidience titles and movie oscars" LOL

Anyone have a clue what they ment whit an animal winning a "movie oscar"????

Also they say this

He produces puppies in different colors and is in some of the Snowwhite puppie's Pedigree. I feel blessed that he is in my life.

When you are breeding aren't you suposted to want that the puppies to have a similar look to they parents.?? this is bad.

 

[Whisper]

That's a breeder you want to run, not walk, from.

 

[azcowgirl]

my dog rocky was a silver and white lol but he was mixed with a chow!!! there dogs are cute but i dont like byb's

 

[chickenlittle]

German Shepherds were bred to work.

Personally if they can do the work that is really all that matters.
Too many breeders are playing on the rare colours; oversized; this does not make the dog better.

If the dog can go to work then it is a good shepherd otherwise it is nothing more then a pet.

 

[mrose_s]

I felt a great privilege to be able to train and show these "special" dogs.

she's the "special" one

jeez

 

[Squishy22]

The red dog doesnt even look pure bred to me. could have chow somewhere down the line.

 

[DanL]

They didn't look that big to me, look where the dogs shoulder is compared to the handler. Gunnar is that tall and he's within the standard.

I agree the red one looks like a mix.

Not a breeder I'd buy from.

 

[tinies12]

Wow: I am learning new things each and everyday! Why anyone would breed with the lack of standards is beyond me. Why can't people let it alone? Breed for SPACIFIC'S quality not quanity!:yikes:

Just like the Shilo Shepherd, nice to look at but way to big and out of standard for me! Correct me if I am wrong!

 

[whatszmatter]

German Shepherds were bred to work.

Personally if they can do the work that is really all that matters.
Too many breeders are playing on the rare colours; oversized; this does not make the dog better.

If the dog can go to work then it is a good shepherd otherwise it is nothing more then a pet.

and what working qualifications does this breeder have??? thought so. Since these "rare" colors have been a fault since Max created the breed and haven't been bred or worked by any reputable kennel or have had their breeding stock pressured, tested and worked to any appreciable level, i'm quite certain the likelyhood of them producing "working" dogs is pretty much close to zero.

have you ever read his work?? gives a good idea of what GSD breeding should and shouldn't be, once you read it you won't be able to take bits and pieces and make it seem like he advocated "everything". BUt that is the signature of a BYB and the like.

 

[tinies12]

and what working qualifications does this breeder have??? thought so. Since these "rare" colors have been a fault since Max created the breed and haven't been bred or worked by any reputable kennel or have had their breeding stock pressured, tested and worked to any appreciable level, i'm quite certain the likelyhood of them producing "working" dogs is pretty much close to zero.

have you ever read his work?? gives a good idea of what GSD breeding should and shouldn't be, once you read it you won't be able to take bits and pieces and make it seem like he advocated "everything". BUt that is the signature of a BYB and the like.

Whatzamatter; Sounds like you know what your talking about!

 

[Sapphire-Light]

and what working qualifications does this breeder have??? thought so. Since these "rare" colors have been a fault since Max created the breed and haven't been bred or worked by any reputable kennel or have had their breeding stock pressured, tested and worked to any appreciable level, i'm quite certain the likelyhood of them producing "working" dogs is pretty much close to zero.

have you ever read his work?? gives a good idea of what GSD breeding should and shouldn't be, once you read it you won't be able to take bits and pieces and make it seem like he advocated "everything". BUt that is the signature of a BYB and the like.

I agree whit you, and a good and responsible GSD breeder is the one that at least one of the parents of the litter has a SCH

 

[tinies12]

I agree whit you, and a good and responsible GSD breeder is the one that at least one of the parents of the litter has a SCH

Exactly::: Anyone can breed to say they are a breeder, but to actually work the dogs and get them titled that's a major achievement! That's responsible, I am truly learning by reading all of your posts. Thank you everyone!

 

[chickenlittle]

I agree whit you, and a good and responsible GSD breeder is the one that at least one of the parents of the litter has a SCH

Wait you are saying a working german shepherd breeder should title their dogs for a sport???

Why??

Sport is just that and not work and does not test workability.
It tests trainability...big difference.

I am not going to get into this debate but can tell you no police officer or military offical would look at a sports dog here if they can have something trained for work.

This is a working breeder

http://www.tiekerhook.com/

yes some of his dogs have sports titles and he claims it like it is...a sport.

 

[whatszmatter]

what did you get that link when I posted it elsewhere??? must've book marked it and thought you could learn a few things, but I doubt it. Koos is one of the best working breeders and trainers in the world. Ask him about using untitled or unproven working stock for breeding especially ones grossly out of the standard. His dogs are all tested pressured and worked. He knows what he's doing, unlike others that hear something and fly with it.

What is your experience in "sports" what dogs titled, where and when?? My guess is you've NEVER, EVER, and have absolutely zero experience in it. just like you're alter ego, spouting off about hings you know nothing about.

 

[Sapphire-Light]

SCH is not only obidience, they also prove work.

Here are two links whit SCH info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzhund
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/activities/schutzhund.html

The German Shepherd Dog (GSD) was developed from working herding dogs around 1900 as an all-around working dog. Within a few years it was clear that the dogs were losing their working ability. Schutzhund was developed at this time as a test of working ability for GSDs. Only GSDs that had passed a Schutzhund test or a herding test were allowed to breed and thus have their progeny registered as German Shepherd Dogs. This is true in Germany to this day. It is only by testing the working ability of every generation that the strong working characteristics of the GSD have been maintained. Dogs of any breed, even mixes, can compete in Schutzhund today, but the most common breeds are GSDs, Belgian Malinois, Rottweilers, Doberman Pinschers, Giant Schnauzers, Bouvier des Flandres, Dutch Shepherd Dogs, and the like.

Most police departments do not allow their working dogs to breed. This is also true of many other organizations that use working dogs. The breeding stock for these working dogs is Schutzhund dogs. Without Schutzhund, the working ability of GSDs and other working breeds would quickly deteriorate and it would be difficult to find suitable dogs for police work, bomb detection, or search and rescue. People do Schutzhund for fun, but they also know that they are giving back to society by developing the next generation of working dogs.

 

[whatszmatter]

Hey Sapph, its just an excuse that a certain person or persons likes to use when they don't have the knowledge or experience and they just like to say what fits their bill so they can breed and try to sell anything they want.

That's why I'd love to know how many dogs they titled and when. Its easy for me to see a dog trained in SchH to know if the issues i'm seeing are training issues or temperment or drive issues (generally).

These people seem to forget that although SchH is mainly a sport, it's still very valuable. When you drive a dog, do an attack out of the blind, long bites, escorts back to the judge, you can read the dog, is he biting out of defense, prey, is he avoiding slightly on the escorts, is the dog controllable?? all these things and much more can be judged.

A good dog is a good dog, no matter how it was trained, BUT schH is the test that was developed long ago, to test and pressure breeding stock against a standard. It is why the GSD has the reputation it has now. Certain people like to use "schH is only a sport" that's why we don't train for it as an EXCUSE. BYB"s are full of excuses, and these people have lots of 'em.

Some of us know that some dogs can do well at bite work, some only at OB, some only at tracking, some do really well in bitework, and OB, but have no drive to hunt or track, or can bite all day long, but can't be controlled. SchH can easily be used to pressure and test the dogs in all these phases, which is how we got the working GSD in the first place, yet these fly by nighters think they know better:yikes: , (where's the emoticon with the hammer bashing someone's head, that would fit better)

You don't have to win these "sports" or place very high, but if you're training a working dog, it shouldn't take much to be able to show your dog at one of these "sports" and get a title, it shouldn't take much at all. NObody is going to care what score you got, in fact the last one I was at, most of the dogs I liked best, scored the lower. Mostly training issues I saw, not drive or temperment issues. and before I'd breed to any dog titled or not, i would test the dog myself on a neutral field, or with a helper that I bring along, no matter how many titles or times the dog has been shown, but that's niether here nor there. Real breeders don't make excuses, they just do it. I just worked a 10 year old police dog titled all the way to Sch III.