The dog's performance doesn't always indicate what methods are used.
Totally agree with you there - hope my earlier posts weren't coming across that way because I think most of us would have had at least one occasion where we've gone into the ring and our dogs haven't worked to their normal standard or it's basically just been a disaster (for me it's been more than one occasion - I get really nervous and it impacts badly on my dog).
However IMO most of the time when a handler steps into the ring who trains their dogs with very old school methods it's usually obvious and reflected in the dog. I know the handlers who use old school methods because they really aren't shy about explaining to you how they train their dogs or demonstrating it for you.
FWIW I have always liked the obedience that most SchH dogs have. Very up, attentive and sure of what their job is. IME while they certainly use correction, many SchH trainers seem to use very motivational methods of teaching the obedience behaviors. We have a SchH person teaching Novice OB at the training club and she was very disappointed that only one student in her class knew what "drive" was, as it pertained to training (several offered that it had to do with rear movement).
This has always been my experience with Schutzhund too. And I agree completely that hardly anyone I would talk to in obedience would understand what I mean when I refer to drive.
What is CCD?, we pretty much start at novice (I think there is some before thing but no one really offers it)
CCD stands for community companion dog, it is kind of like the encouragement class. It is exactly the same as novice except the heelwork is done on leash, there is no change of position/dumbell exercise and down stays are a minute shorter (2 minutes instead of 3), and a couple of other minor differences.
Pretty much here its all indoors. Very little obedience outdoors. I personally have never seen it but I know it happens. (how about obedience in a fairground cow shed.. with a JRT and there are tonnes of rodent smells! lol I wasn't entered in that one and boy was I glad) Agility is indoors all winter and spring outdoors summer and fall. My first agility trial was in a park with a rope about waist high as the barrier! LOL thankfully most trials have more barrier than that.
LOL that sounds like our annual royal shows! The dogs have to compete agility and obedience where they toilet the cows in the morning :S I haven't entered there either (yet haha).
For some reason all our agility and obedience trials use waist high ropes as the "barriers".
Yes, I have to say I don't see many scent hounds in either. Though I have seen more in obedience. I do have a lot of respect for people who do agility or obed with scent hounds. But to do agility you need more than 5 seconds of focus too.
We probably see more in agility over here, I know one other person trialling with a beagle in my state, and they've done one trial LOL.
Definitely, you need more than five seconds of focus in agility, but I did the hard work and got that when we were training obedience so when I started agility I had a dog who could already focus and work in drive just about anywhere at any time. That was my biggest struggle in obedience so that has made agility a lot easier for us.
Its only boring if you are bad at training
COMPLETELY agree - I was just using the excuse or explanation given to me as to why people find it hard
TBH a lot of people lack the skill to make heelwork fun and exciting. Trying to get the people in my obedience classes to 'have a party' with their dogs when they get something right is like pulling nails!
My standard for heel is high. Head up eyes on me the whole time. JRTs get too distracted lol to let them look around and hope they don't see something 'better' than me. We have LOADS of dog events around here. Its nothing to see the top obed person in Canada or some of the top agility competitors in the world at a local trial. (in fact some of my friends take lessons from a lady who has been the top obed person in Can so I can say our standards are pretty high) My first obed dog (an intact stud JRT) actually the first dog that ever did more than be a basic pet, got his CD with no score lower than 194, and was 1st each time (novice B as I started teaching with the local obed club before I started trailing) We had a few hiccups in open, with him trying to return the dumbell to people other than me (cause he knew i would take it away after retrieve over high jump) But he only failed a couple of times lol.
I am sure your standard is high, I was talking generally when I said it depends on your standard (just in case you thought I was picking on you
). I see people passing in all levels of obedience with low scores and with dogs who don't work with any great attitude, who look flat and lag and lack animation etc. I think how high a standard you have definitely impacts on how challenging a sport is for you because it shapes how much hard work you put into it.
Just curious what venue to you play? Some venues the dog can run beside you the whole time and you can have success. That could play into it too.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'venue' - we have two options here, ANKC agility or ADAA agility. Only ANKC agility gives you official titles. In terms of rules, difficulty etc they are almost exactly the same in a lot of ways and people cross between both with no real problems.
We are only new to agility and haven't competed yet but I don't want my dog running beside me. I am training her to take obstacles independently of me and getting her working further away from me (even though we do distance stuff in obedience) has definitely been a bit of a challenge - like I said I don't find agility EASY, I just find it easier than obedience because I am not starting from scratch with a dog who I struggle to get focus and drive from.
Well I don't usually train that often, so if you averaged it out then yes Dekka hit her first trial at 12 months and we had really only been working on it for about a month beforehand. She is amazing (she is the one who does movies and things) Not to say I didn't train her before that. But it was maybe 30 second bits here and there. I was more interested in agility by then. I do know many people in local clubs who say that if you have a decent dog you should be able to be ready for novice in 8 weeks, lol keep in mind most of these people have OTCHs so they know what they are doing. Though I only say that if your dog already knows how to learn, and already has basic leash manners, knows sit etc.
Do you have any videos of what your novice obedience rounds look like? I am not doubting that the right trainer with the right dog could possibly have a dog competing in eight weeks but even the top trialers I know take on average 12-18 months from puppy hood to have a dog ready (in their eyes) to trial.
I'd love to see some videos of your dogs they sound amazing
ETA: I had a look at what the requirements are for an OTCH in the US. That is really interesting! Here, to compete in UD dogs must first have an Open title and then to get an OTCH they have to get their UD title (three quallies in UD) and then get an extra five UD passes with scores over 185. It must be quite competitive to get an OTCH in the US when it is reliant on coming 1st!