Questions for confirmation dog shows...

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by xpaeanx, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    Ok, So I had posted a while ago about what it was like to show a dog. Someday I wanted a show dog, and I wanted to know a little more other than what I had seen as a spectator.

    Well, now I have more questions! I found a breeder who is very close to me, feeds raw, she seems very nice, and I explained to her that I am new to this and need someone who can guide me through it. She was fine with that, saying that having someone to show you around makes life a lot easier. So, now we are trying to plan a time for me to go meet her and her dogs. :D I'm very excited!

    Anyway, here's my question. For getting into showing, would you recommend getting a puppy or an older dog? Apparently she has a couple older dogs avail. One, is a 12 month old dog. She kept her and her sister, and has decided to show her sister and the other is a 6 yr old with 11 points already that she would let go with a breeding contract.

    Also, when I meet her, what kind of questions should I ask her?
     
  2. mom2dogs

    mom2dogs New Member

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    lol, It's conFORmation - like how well the dog conforms to the standard. Pet peeve, not picking on you so please don't take it that way :)

    Depends. *I* would rule out the 6 yo, partially because I would not breed a 6 yo bitch unless under VERY certain circumstances (has this dog had any health testing done? Has it been bred before?), and if not a bitch it would have to be a super dog. Why hasn't it been finished yet? Will she be on as co-owner (is to be expected)?

    Why does she want to show the sister but not the other bitch? What is the other one's flaws and why is the other better than the other (slight difference or a significant one)? If the 12 month old was a nice bitch, I would probably go that route - no housetraining (can also hit the ring faster) ;) But it depends on if you like the puppy stages or not and what training the older dog has had. At least with an older dog, you have an idea if it's able to show or not, rather than going through the ugly puppy looks and it developing a flaw/disqualification.
     
  3. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    How soon do you want to start showing? In the AKC the pups have to be at least 6 months old. The one pointed is obviously doing well.. ( temptation in the mix here.. lol.. )
     
  4. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    haha! sorry about the spelling! when i type fast I often misspell things... or word sentences weirdly...

    anyway, as far as I know she only wanted to show one, and the one that she picked is really only different in color.

    the 6 yr old is a merle(love that color), but I don't see why at 6 she would still only have 11 points....

    In anycase, I didn't really decide on a set time that I wanted to start showing. So, waiting for a puppy is fine, but starting right away is fine too! lol.


    And what questions do you think I should ask her? about the dogs and about her. I'm trying to figure out if she's the breeder for me, bc I'm looking for someone who will be more than just "ok, here's your puppy."
     
  5. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    You are looking for a mentor- ask her which is best to show. Tell her what you want to do but a older seasoned vetern such as the older dog might be best to get your feet wet in showing. My daughter started showing as a child, but the dogs she learned with were my seasoned veterns that knew what was expected to show. Are you looking into junior handler?
     
  6. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    I would do junior handler, but everything I read says under 18, so I don't qualify...

    and yeah, having a dog that already knows the routine kinda seems like a good idea to me. But, I want to know what other people who are already showing think. My concerns for getting an older dog is that I already have a few dogs, and I wouldn't be rehoming the dog when it was done showing...

    oh yeah, and once a dog becomes CH what else can you do?
     
  7. mom2dogs

    mom2dogs New Member

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    I would ask her to be honest on what you should do. Everyone knows that if I were to get another dog to show it would have to be more than be able to finish. Ask her to go over the 12 month old with you when you meet up with her, never settle if a breeder says its simply show-able... KNOW the flaws and respect a breeder that will be upfront about them. Note the pros/cons (ie: nice head, but too long, etc. etc.), every dog is going to have cons. If she thinks that it would be best to wait until something better comes along... I would wait. Does the 6yo have majors? What shows were she shown at? Heck, go over the 6 yo, it could be better than the 1 yo... but I would definitely question WHY she isn't finished yet and if she has been bred before. Sorry if you said this, but are you planning on breeding? But there's nothing like getting those 15 pts and majors on your own...

    Also go over her contract, I would expect her to be co-owner with you, and if she isn't I would ask why. Ask what health clearances she gets and what you will need to have done at what time. The guarantees, even what shows she frequently goes to and if you could go along with her until you get your own dog. What breed is this btw?

    (Really hoping I am making sense, me + cold medicine doesn't equal anything productive)
     
  8. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    Honey... Never approach a show of " what others think..". Approach it as a day out with your dog.
    And- no- dogs should not be rehomed.. The dog has already been bounced once into a family- its not fair to do it again. If you get a show dog- IMO its for life- their life..
    I have been handling dogs since I was a 8 year old child. Started as a junior, then went from there.. Any dog in my " charge" with few exceptions lived with me their entire life. If you only want to show but worried about what to do after the career ends, then may I suggest you take handling classes to become a handler. Then you could show but the dogs go back to their homes.. ( graps at straws..)
     
  9. corgi_love

    corgi_love New Member

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    What breed? Just curious :D

    I really enjoyed getting my first show dog(Smooth Collie) as a young puppy. As long as you have a good buddy that shows(I didn't but still made it work) to show you the ropes and you have a nice conformation class, it's really not that big of a deal training your dog for a show- so getting a more experience dog, IMO, isn't necessary if you are willing to do the training. It's hardly like the training for agility or things like that :)

    My first dog show, with NO experience at all except for my Conformation class, I won Best Junior Handler, and my dog also one first twice that same day. Not saying that this will happen with everyone, just saying what's possible :)

    BorzoiMom- I don't think she was implying she would get rid of her dog after she got it's Ch. Title, I think she was asking what else she can do conformation wise with the dog :)
     
  10. mom2dogs

    mom2dogs New Member

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    Normally once a dog if finished it'll never see the inside of a confo ring again... unless it's being specialed. There's performance events, which are important to show off that the dog is more than just a pretty face. I love dogs that have titles on both ends.
     
  11. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    LOL, yeah you make sense!

    The breed is Cardigan Welsh Corgi. Collies are my all time love, BUT I've decided that I can't do another large dog for a while. I read a lot about pembroke vs cardigan and I think the cardi personality is more my speed.

    I don't know that much about the 2 dogs yet, as I haven't met with her yet. I just saw the pics of them. I did look at the pics, with the breed standard though... of course being that i'm new I'm sure what I see could be all kinds of wrong! LOL. So I want to know what to ask her when I do meet her which will prob be next week or after. So, yes, all questions and concerns or tips are greatly appreciated!

    and why would a co-ownership be expected?


    ETA- borzi I would NOT rehome the dog! that's why I was asking what people think of getting an older vs a younger one! And I was asking what else there is to do bc I didn't know if there were like conformation shows where only CHs can compete or if I had to do something else like aglity once I got a CH.
     
  12. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    Not so.. If you want a top dog, like Westminster only takes the top 25 in each breed so they continue to show for placing purposes. Also additional wins are to show the quality of the dog for breeding purposes..
     
  13. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    what qualifies you as the top 25? and once you have CH do you still go into a ring with non-CH?
     
  14. mom2dogs

    mom2dogs New Member

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    Because most breeders will not give one of their dogs to a "newbie" without knowing them for a while or respecting them (BYBs/mills can be great liars in order to get Ch lines in their program). Once you build your name there are a select few who will sell their dogs no strings attached, but most want certain requirements met before they sign off. I would ask the breeder about this and make sure that everything is in writing and clear.

    BM, in the post you quoted I did say that normally a dog won't see the confo ring again unless being specialed. Entry to Westminster/Eukanuba doesn't hold much water for me FYI, seen a lot of crap "strut their stuff" there ;)
     
  15. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    Its done by points or wins. like if your dog wins a National sweeps is over a smaller show. Its all placement. While its true once a champion points do not matter, they place the dogs by the number of wins. I know I am being simplictic in my explanation but that is why you hear when you watch westminster " number so in so" in the breed."..
    As far as what you want- that is up to you. If you want a easy start go with a seasoned vetern. If you have a good mentor to show you how to show- start with a younger dog. Its totally up to you..
    Once you have a CH the dog goes into the Best of Breed class.
     
  16. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    yes ok that makes A LOT of sense! so if she doesn't want a co-ownership or something where she has to approve breedings, what does that mean? I know that would be bad, but should that put out the stop sign? she seems really nice, and she feeds raw and uses a holistic vet. She's also right on the Island, so it's kinda uber convienent.
     
  17. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    Just remember that showing is to determine " breeding stock" so to speak. Co-ownership is common place- just get a good contract- in writing if you co-own.
    And moms- " specials" is just slang for a champion that competes in breed ring.. ( ie- taking breed over special means- dog out of lower class beat a champion to take the breed)...
     
  18. mom2dogs

    mom2dogs New Member

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    You CAN enter your Ch in non-Ch classes, but that is highly looked down upon (you'll be the talk of the town and not in a good way) and handlers use it infrequently when building a major and they know they will most likely be the only one at the show. After your dog is finished, and you want to special, you go into the BOB class. The more dogs entered, the more points you rack up when you go BOB (take the other dogs entered and that's how much points you earn - "breed points").

    Someone who values their lines won't let it slip away like that so to speak from my experience. Most breeders who do this have a bunch of other red flags...

    I know what specialing/specials is/are ;)
     
  19. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    But you said its " specialed" and the fact is- its a given.. A Special is a champion that is trying to beat other champions for rank.. Hardly dismissed as a casual thing.. ie beating the best of the best is the purpose. They may call it a " special" but the fact is- its a champion going into best of breed for Best to hopefully make best of group- ..
     
  20. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    ok got it... so you become CH, you then make your way to top 25 of your breed in BOB shows, then you get into westminster, then you throw you're big french nose(if your me that is) up in the air and say "haha! I am the Best! I beat you!"
     

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