Question about GSD's.

[panzer426]

yes, gsd's just like every other breed have countless defects due to bad breeding. cow hocks, roack backs, sway backs, short legs, too long legs, bowed front legs like a bulldog, missing teeth, too many teeth, eyes spaced too far apart or too close together, no stop between muzzle and forehead, too much stop between muzzle and forehead, and of course the most well known...hip and elbow displasia. the list of course goes on and on for pages and pages.
this is why, no matter what breed/breeds you are considering you need to do tons of research and when you think you have researched the breeds enough, find some more information and do tons more research.

 

[Julie]

Here are some more pictures....

I have some more pictures too, but I have to load them to my PhotoBucket before I can post them. There is also one of her in my signature below.

Julie.

 

[panzer426]

I am no expert so dont take anything I say as end all be all as far as critiqueing her. but I would be glad to give my opinion. wether she would excell in the show ring or not is not important as long as she makes you happy. my male gsd is german showlines, if you look far enough back you can find some working lines just as in any gsd's pedigree (for that matter if you look far enough back in any gsd's pedigree you will find horand von Grafrath) and he wouldn't stand the slightest chance in an american showring. the judges look for different things.
by the way, it is indesputable that the "extreme" angulation found in american gsd's is a serious fault according to the gsd breed standard. so a gsd that displays a constant state of severe angulation should be disqualified. a gsd that shows it in a show stance but not in regular movement is accepted. however I have seen quite a few akc show winners that should have been disqualified. all gsd's should show some angulation, but if you dont plan on showing or breeding then who cares.

edited...
Julie, she is gorgeous. she appears to be a mix of german working and showlines. probably more working lines. from the photo in your signature I can see that she does not after all have cow hocks (cow hocks are when the hocks ((really heels, look like backwards knees)) turn inwards toward each other).

 

[Rhino]

and the term is "hocks", hawks are birds of prey related to eagles and falcons.

With my dislexia I am not always near a dictionary or thesaurus to make sure one my blunders doen't embarass me, which this has. Same meaning, just off by a few letters. Hopefully (and I think most have) people will still get my point.

 

[panzer426]

I wasnt correcting you to embarass you, but to inform any new members (members new to dogs) who may not know the term. I apologize if I embarassed you.

 

[Rhino]

roack backs

What is roak backs?

And no need to defend yourself. I don't know enough about the breed to insite that kind of defense, I'm only asking because I don't know, and I appreciate the answers.

Thanx for the appology, the written word is tricky sometimes.

 

[panzer426]

wow you got me...I have no idea what a roack back is. glad I dont have a very big head or it would have just delfated a bit. I meant to say ROACH back. thanks

 

[Julie]

Here are are some more pics. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I too find all this very interesting.
Comments appreiciated.

Julie.

 

[Rhino]

We're two for two in the typo department.

Ok, what is a roach back?

 

[panzer426]

a roach back (had to triple check and make sure I spelled it right, now I will spell something else wrong) is when the back arches upwards starting at the shoulders and ending at the hips/pelvis area. a sway back is when it arches downwards.

 

[Julie]

Do you see anything noticable in the pictures I just posted?

And what color should be marked on her registration papers?

I have been told 2 or 3 different things to mark. Since I am not familar, I just thought I would get more opinions.

 

[panzer426]

the only thing I see really is that her back is slightly roached, not badly though. and it is acsentuated (sp?) by her slightly over sloped hips. to me they dont appear severe, actually very minor. I need to reload the software for my camera so I can download some new pictures, emptied my photobucket to load new pics and then it didnt work. otherwise I would post a few of my gsd. he has a slightly gay tail which means that the tip is curled. he wouldnt be disqualified but he would lose points. of course as I said he wouldnt stand a chance in a show here in the US, dont know how he would fair in europe.
she is a blanket back. I bet that was one of the things people have told you, and I bet another is black and tan? black and tan would have more tan than that and would be like this... http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/index.cfm the pic in the top right corner. bet you have also been told that she is a bi-color? not entirely untrue. bi color though has less tan. here is a somewhat decent guide... http://www.justshepherds.com/colors.htm really as far as her papers you could say either one (blanket back or bi-color) and be correct, the difference is minor and wont be disputed unless you intend to breed and/or show her. actually you could call her pure black, or even white for akc registration since they will never see her. it is even somewhat easy to register a mixed breed as a purebreed. but if you want to be accurate call her a blanket back, not a saddle back. the blanket and/or saddle is the black patch that is draped over the dogs back (like a saddle or blanket). think of it like horses...a horse wearing a blanket (like a racing horse or hunter jumper type horse) has its back and nearly all of its sides covered by the blanket. a horse wearing a saddle has most of its sides visible. a saddle back gsd has a much smaller black patch than a blanket back gsd.

 

[Julie]

the only thing I see really is that her back is slightly roached, not badly though. and it is acsentuated (sp?) by her slightly over sloped hips. to me they dont appear severe, actually very minor. I need to reload the software for my camera so I can download some new pictures, emptied my photobucket to load new pics and then it didnt work. otherwise I would post a few of my gsd. he has a slightly gay tail which means that the tip is curled. he wouldnt be disqualified but he would lose points. of course as I said he wouldnt stand a chance in a show here in the US, dont know how he would fair in europe.
she is a blanket back. I bet that was one of the things people have told you, and I bet another is black and tan? black and tan would have more tan than that and would be like this... http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/index.cfm the pic in the top right corner. bet you have also been told that she is a bi-color? not entirely untrue. bi color though has less tan. here is a somewhat decent guide... http://www.justshepherds.com/colors.htm

Yes, I have been told all those. lol
I have also been told some are just patterns the others are colors.

This is what I have to choose from on the AKC papers:
Black
Black & cream
Black & red
Black & silver
Black & tan
Blue
Gray
Liver
Sable
White
Bi-color

Thats it. What is she?

And thanks for your opinion. She really is a great dog.
Julie.

 

[panzer426]

oh yeah, been a while since I have filled out akc papers...she is bi-color.

 

[Julie]

That is what the trainer said, bi-color. But I didn't believe him, cause I see 3 colors on her not 2. I see Black brown and white.
I thought bi is 2.
Someone else said black and tan with blanket back pattern which is not noted on akc.

I think this is why I never registered her. Cause I wanted it to be correct.

But do you really think Bi-color?

I am not being rude, but would really like to get those papers in. lol

Thanks,
Julie.

 

[panzer426]

the white/grey/silver color doesnt count because she does not enough of it. blanket back is more appropriate to me, but for the akc papers bi color is correct.
gray confuses me. I dont remember it from the papers when I had to fill them out different times, but I see it listed above in this thread. gray is not seen in gsd's except like on yours where she has white, or where they have what is called a pepper shawl where some gray is mixed in above and around the shoulders like a shawl or scarf, and in gray sables.
sable comes in many variations including black, gray, and red. a gray sable looks very much like a wolf.
I see some white on the underside of her rear legs, imagine there is some under her tail and probably on her belly too.
some people would call her a black and tan, understandably because she is black and tan. to some she might be a black because hse is mostly black, less understandable. but if you had an akc judge looking at her to decide what to put on her papers, bi-color is the most accurate.
oh yeah...instead of black and silver option on the papers they should say black and gray. most gsd enthusiast dont like the term silver because when a gsd (like a lot of other breeds) gets older his/her muzzle will start to get gray, only with gsd's (not sure of other breeds) we call it silver. so to a lot of gsd lovers saying a dog has silver is kind of an insult.

 

[Julie]

Thanks...
Julie.

 

[panzer426]

no problem. did I understand you correctly? she is a police dog? Im not doubting you, just curious because you werent sure of her background, said you were told she was german working lines. I thought all of the police departments and federal agencies were importing dogs from germany, czech republic and belgium on their own. where did she come from?
in 1985 when I was only 6 years old my parents had to give up a gsd mix that my dad rescued from a co worker. it was her sons dog and he went off to college (I think, long time since I heard the story) and the dog lived on a chain about 6 feet long under their deck. my dad told her after hearing this that she could give it to him or she could give it to animal control after he called them. truthfully I doubt they would have taken it since it was being fed, had a dog house, had fresh water and was getting regular vet checks. anyway, we had the dog for maybe 6 months and he was perfectly obedient on leash but off leash he would vanish in a second. and to make it worse he could easily hop the fence which was 6 or 7 feet tall. not sure how my dad new him but the guy who adopted him from us was a police officer and he became a k-9 partner for him.
anyway my point was that I didnt think any american police departments did that anymore, thought they all imported them now.

 

[GSDMom]

Thank You panzer426 for your post
great explanation

This is my Dion out of show stack, same dog as first photo.
Looks pretty normal to me ! might be a tad thin as he's out of coat this very hot July day

 

[Athebeau]

To me, the over angulation of show Shepherds is just another type of "designer" dogs. It goes to show how the kennel clubs and shows can ruin a breed of dog. The angulation is nothing more than for show, they don't make good working dogs...you would have to yell to the criminal..."stop, so my dog can catch up". I personally think its extreme fashion breeding and very unhealthy. I've seen them hobbling around on their pasturns in puppyhood, loose rears (which are desired) into adulthood and these dogs are winning at the shows. I almost cry when I watch my friends Shepherds trying to amble around the house...and these Shepherds are winning at the shows throughout Canada & the States. It's animal cruelity in the worst state the way they are breeding some dogs....fad breeding, it's criminal.