Question about finding a good breeder

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by sparks19, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    Now... don't get excited LOL. We won't be getting another dog for quite a few years (at least not a breeder dog... we could lose our minds and go for another rescue lol but there are breeds that I will only deal with a breeder) but it never hurts to look around and get an idea of the breeders out there.

    So I kinda get the basics... OFA and such. But I have happened upon a few sites where past litters haven't been very successful. many pups died or had issues for example. Some have had some successful breedings after the breedings that weren't so great but I can't seem to get over that they have had litters where they suffered a large loss.

    Is this something I SHOULD be wary of? I mean I know when Breeding you always run a certain risk of this kind of thing so could it just have been bad luck or should I RUN from these breeder sites and never return. Does it also depend on breed? are some just more prone to complications than others (I am looking at large breeds not like english bulldogs or pugs... I know they can have serious issues during labor0

    Like I said... this won't be happening for quite a while but I am just tryign to get a feel and get as much education on the red flags as I can as I really don't know it all lol.
     
  2. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

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    Too late, I'm excited. What breed?

    I think that if the problems were in the past and they are not repeating similar breedings it is fine, but that's just my opinion.
     
  3. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    I think the fact that they are open and honest about loosing pups is a good thing. I think it also sort of depends on what killed the pups. If it was genetic I'd want to make sure they are not breeding those dogs again. Same with temperament problems. If it were environmental/transmittable disease I would be sure that you go and see where the dogs are living and ask about what they are doing to prevent this from happening again. So I guess it would all depend on what killed the pups and what the breeder has done about it.
     
  4. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    LOL well one of them will most DEFINITELY be a Great Dane... but that one won't be for quite a few years.

    but I am also looking at other breeds that I would prefer to get through a good breeder like a Boxer. I love them but they can be riddled with issues so I definitely want to find a good breeder.

    Brian also wants to get a well bred Lab to be a good retreiver for hunting. He has ALWAYS ALWAYS wanted a good hunting dog. So if anything it is likely that the lab would be the first dog we get and the rest will follow later when we have the farm lol.

    How far "in the past" should they be? should there be a number of successful breedings after that that I should look for or should I just look to make sure they aren't using the same breed pairings?
     
  5. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    #1 ...Go through your State's Breed Club . #2 ... Never buy without seeing the Kennel itself ( or have someone you trust to visit ) . #3 ... remember that anyone can make a wonderfully appealing web site .
     
  6. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    Good advice... thank you :) I will definitely be sure to keep all of those things in mind.
     
  7. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    How do I go about finding the right state breed club...

    Like I typed in PA Great Dane breed club and all that really came up was the AKC website and then a bunch of fluff sites.
     
  8. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    thanks... that was wierd because I clicked that link and it took me to something totally unrelated so I figured it was just fluff... must have been a glitch
     
  9. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Will be glad to help you out if something in Indy hits your eye !
     
  10. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    thank you... :)

    Thanks Grammy :D
     
  11. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

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    Eeeek... I don't really know. If it were me, I'd say at LEAST one year and hopefully more than that. It would make me wonder if someone made a tragic mistake with one litter and then immediately had a second or bred the dog again immediately. Maxy has a really great point, too, about if it's an environmental issue - I was only thinking of genetic ones.

    I wouldn't worry about having a number of successful breedings afterwards, though. If the person has LEARNED from their mistakes and is not repeating them and doing everything responsibly the next time, I don't see a problem. If there are successive breedings after bad ones, though, I would look at them with a critical eye and get all the info you can from the breeder about them, and make a judgment then. If they have repeated mistakes with litters, I really wouldn't buy from them; the same goes if they withhold info from you.

    What ARE the problems they've had with litters? Virus outbreaks, genetic problems, or temperament issues?
     
  12. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    I'm really not sure... most of them just said that many of the puppies were stillborn... there was a couple that had one that 4 out of 5 pups were stillborn (i can't remember the number of pups now but I know it was like only one that survived) Just wondering what would cause so many to be still born. and they bred the dam again after that but not for a while and she had a successful breeding then. This was a boxer though.
     
  13. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

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    Weird.... maybe starting a thread on that might get more info on why pups are stillborn. I have no idea.
     
  14. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    you are talking puppy deaths?

    Mortality rate according to Savant Harris is about 20-25% and I've found that to be true. In litters where you have 4-5 pups that might be only one, maybe two...if you have a bigger litter...and Danes I think throw litters into the teens often enough...the numbers might be commeasurably higher.

    Myriad reasons as to why...inexperience (this can happen more than once BTW...every whelping has the potential to bring up something you have NEVER seen before), bad luck, bad mothering by the bitch (I'd imagine laying on or stepping on, puppies is a HUGE HUGE problem with the Dane breed), infection, parasites, etc. That's just puppies on the ground...not accounting for fetal demise.

    Just when you think you have things figured out, Mother Nature has something else to say.
     
  15. There can be a lot of reasons for stillborn puppies that may not have anything to do with the breeder's actual choices or ethics.

    In utero herpes infections can kill or cause puppies to be born dead or die shortly afterward.

    Puppies who are born early have a very poor survival rate, and in dogs, with the gestation being so short, it does not have to be a LOT early either.

    Other causes can be onset of labor that was not recognized which did not progress, such as primary uterine inertia.
     
  16. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    "stillborn" can be a result of so many things. Many people give up too easily. If you have tricks and tips you can save many more pups that might otherwise have gotten that appellation. Not everyone knows that tho...which doesn't make them bad people or bad breeders. After all it's doubtful the old skool farmer man type breeders was giving puppies oxygen, working for hours, and putting them in warm water to get them going....right?

    That raised other questions and ethical dilemmas tho...SHOULD you revive a puppy that is dead appearing on arrival? What if there is something wrong that won't show up til later in life? It might be the best puppy in the litter phenotypically....and you'll likely forget all about the rough start once it's 2-3 years old...so...you might be perpetuation a cycle...who knows?

    In large litters...uterus space is at a premium and some pups get plenty while others not enough to form properly. Improper vaccination or lack of various nutrients can account for some. So many reasons.
     
  17. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    If you find a breeders on Long Island that interest you I would be more than willing to visit them for you! and give you pics if they allow me to take them....
     

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