question about breeding.
- Thread starter Milo's Daddy
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Your comparrison between breeding humans and breeding dogs is NOT valid. Obviously, from your comments, you don't know enough about genetics, human or canine to be ABLE to make a valid comparrison or point. You haven't taken anything into account, such as gene pools, genetic drift, the founder effect or anything else. The human race is infinately more diverse than domestic dogs, therefore the concerns that we have about breeding dogs are completely irrelevant to breeding humans. It's an absolutely ridiculous comparrison.
Furthermore, unless you are one of Jeff Foxworthy's subjects of inbreeding jokes, the responsibility of breeding dogs is yet again, not relevant to human breeding.
The title of your thread is "Question about Breeding." You asked. You've been answered. Do what you like.
Furthermore, unless you are one of Jeff Foxworthy's subjects of inbreeding jokes, the responsibility of breeding dogs is yet again, not relevant to human breeding.
The title of your thread is "Question about Breeding." You asked. You've been answered. Do what you like.
My debate is that I think your definition of a "poor breeder" is far too broad. Just because a breeder creates a mixed breed such as maltipoo or yorkipoo you are automatically calling them a poor breeder. That is the point I am trying to convey and defend.
I suppose I am beating a dead horse.
I suppose I am beating a dead horse.
If she has a website, I would really like to see it. Since she's a responsible breeder I'm sure you wouldn't mind sharing."
That's from a previous post. Please respond!
We're also not in the habit of euthanizing millions of children in orphanages either. They can grow up to be adults, meanwhile those "itty bitt fluff-lovies" that everyone wants as puppies and spends boatloads of money on quite often end up on the wrong side of the needle, either because their health or temperment is crap or because they outgrew the "oh so cute" stage and became dogs.
I just read through this whole thing and please tell me if this is basically what you are saying:
You are trying to make the point that whether a dog is purebred or mixed breed, if they are being sold then the reason must be profit and that is wrong.
Is this statement accurate?
The difference is that when a breeder of designer mixed breeds, puppy mills, backyard breeders and some irresponsible breeders of purebreds breed, they are making a load of money on those dogs and becoming rich because they do not do health screenings, showing, and everything else that goes into breeding which can get REALLY expensive. They probably also guarentee a 1 year health guarentee on genetic problems, but guess what? Most of those problems don't even show up until later in the dogs life, where the ByB, miller, or simply breeder who didn't health screen is completely off the hook for the sick puppies they brought into the world.
Real, ethical, reputable breeders who show their dogs and do extensive research and are experts on their breeds and know exactly what to do to better their breeds, choose the best stock to continue on the program and the rest are sold. Almost always, homes are lined up ahead of time, knowing that one or maybe even none will come out as being suitable for breeding they line up homes with a vets guess (x-rays, ultrasounds) at how many puppies there will be. Even when these pups are sold for $500+, breeders rarely ever break even because they ALREADY SPENT SO MUCH MONEY on their dogs and vet costs to guarentee they are healthy in the first place.
I agree that selling a dog for profit is bad no matter what, but just doing it for public demand is just ridiculous because of the fact that they are living breathing creatures. It is a fad that will die out soon and many of those dogs end up in shelters or the pound.
You are trying to make the point that whether a dog is purebred or mixed breed, if they are being sold then the reason must be profit and that is wrong.
Is this statement accurate?
The difference is that when a breeder of designer mixed breeds, puppy mills, backyard breeders and some irresponsible breeders of purebreds breed, they are making a load of money on those dogs and becoming rich because they do not do health screenings, showing, and everything else that goes into breeding which can get REALLY expensive. They probably also guarentee a 1 year health guarentee on genetic problems, but guess what? Most of those problems don't even show up until later in the dogs life, where the ByB, miller, or simply breeder who didn't health screen is completely off the hook for the sick puppies they brought into the world.
Real, ethical, reputable breeders who show their dogs and do extensive research and are experts on their breeds and know exactly what to do to better their breeds, choose the best stock to continue on the program and the rest are sold. Almost always, homes are lined up ahead of time, knowing that one or maybe even none will come out as being suitable for breeding they line up homes with a vets guess (x-rays, ultrasounds) at how many puppies there will be. Even when these pups are sold for $500+, breeders rarely ever break even because they ALREADY SPENT SO MUCH MONEY on their dogs and vet costs to guarentee they are healthy in the first place.
I agree that selling a dog for profit is bad no matter what, but just doing it for public demand is just ridiculous because of the fact that they are living breathing creatures. It is a fad that will die out soon and many of those dogs end up in shelters or the pound.
i understand your argument Milo's daddy. utill about a year ago i had the same views, if a dog is bred with health tests and such, shouldnt it be okay if its a mix?
i wouldnt mind people breeding mixes RESPONSIBLY
IF!
there wern't millions of animals suffering and dying in shelters.
even if the maltese/poodles breeder foudn good and loving homes for each and everyone of the pups, all those positions have been filled that a lonley shelter dog couldve taken.
some shelters put down 100 or more animals every day! why? because people are breeding mixes, or they are breeding pure breds but not making sure they are gettng good homes. i don't want to see more animals die because people are sure that it is okay to breed mixes as long as they find homes.
i really used to be fine with BYB's, didnt see the problem. i'm so glad i'm fully aware of it all now.
watch these 2 movies, then think about it some more.
http://brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx
http://youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch?search=&mode=related&v=D-S-FeR0YwY
PM me if you want. i'm not gonna flame you but i really wanna make you aware
i wouldnt mind people breeding mixes RESPONSIBLY
IF!
there wern't millions of animals suffering and dying in shelters.
even if the maltese/poodles breeder foudn good and loving homes for each and everyone of the pups, all those positions have been filled that a lonley shelter dog couldve taken.
some shelters put down 100 or more animals every day! why? because people are breeding mixes, or they are breeding pure breds but not making sure they are gettng good homes. i don't want to see more animals die because people are sure that it is okay to breed mixes as long as they find homes.
i really used to be fine with BYB's, didnt see the problem. i'm so glad i'm fully aware of it all now.
watch these 2 movies, then think about it some more.
http://brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx
http://youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch?search=&mode=related&v=D-S-FeR0YwY
PM me if you want. i'm not gonna flame you but i really wanna make you aware
and i know what you mean about people breeding. we are the worst plague this planet has ever been subject to.
i plan to adopt rather than to add to that. plus i have a lot of bad health things i duno if i shoudl be passing on, mild asthma, bad ankles, bad knees, bad back etc
but the thing is, in most places in the world the kids dont get murdered if someone doesnt want them within 6 days.
i plan to adopt rather than to add to that. plus i have a lot of bad health things i duno if i shoudl be passing on, mild asthma, bad ankles, bad knees, bad back etc
but the thing is, in most places in the world the kids dont get murdered if someone doesnt want them within 6 days.
I don't think I could possibly add any more to this thread than what has already been said.
I'm sure your maltipoo puppy is a sweet, adorable, darling little dog worthy of all the love and attention you are able to provide.
HOWEVER:
-There is no way to perform the really necessary health screenings that are performed on purebred maltese and poodle breeds BEFORE the mating, as there is no way a person can decipher what the outcome will be in terms of producing mixed-breed puppies. So, there's the first problem.
-Second problem, is that this breeder is breeding for profit...most "breeders" who produce mixed breed puppies (and even so many who are producing purebreds) ARE producing puppies, so that they fatten their pockets. Can you imagine paying between $400-$1500 for a MUTT? To me, that's deceptive, and absolutely ridiculous. A REPUTABLE breeder will sometimes break even, and the amount the pet quality puppies are sold for is barely enough to cover the expense of whelping supplies, the health screenings, etc. In fact, most reputable breeders SPEND more in the name of improving their breed than they do MAKING money from it. If you want a mutt or a mixed-breed, head on over to your shelter, interact with the SEVERAL that are already there, and pay the modest adoption fee for the mutt of your dreams...it really just makes more sense. On that same note, there are PLENTY of purebred dogs and puppies that end up in shelters every day as well...there again, modest adoption fee.
-Reputable breeders are true fanciers and experts in their chosen breed, and their true expertise is in the breed standard, in their dog's bloodlines/pedigree, their dog's occupation (if it's a working dog), conformation, temperament, performance in the show ring, or in various other performance events, such as agility trials. When they do plan a mating between champions, there's a lot of work and tedious research gone into selecting the sire and dam, as the ultimate objective is to produce puppies that will also be proven champions who are actually BETTER than the parent animals in the chosen breed. Perhaps they'll breed only once every couple of years, or every four years...it's more about recognizing an OPPORTUNITY to better the breed. And trust me, that doesn't happen on every heat cycle a bitch has during the year...BYB's don't seem to grasp this concept. Their motto tends to be, if the bitch is in heat, by God, you breed her!!! There's money to be made on those pups!
These are just a FEW of the differences between a BYB and a reputable breeder...
That's not to say that we are all going to tell you that because your dog is a mixed breed, that it's some kind of worthless piece of crap, or that you're a wicked evil person for acquiring your dog from a BYB. I just think you, like so many people, lack education on the issues of responsible breeding...a lot more people have increased their awareness on the evils of larger operations such as puppy mills, but are still not recognizing the puppy miller's elusive partner...the BYB.
Enjoy your dog, don't breed him, and have him neutered. He'll bring you a lot of joy as an altered companion, and all of the other mixed breeds waiting in shelters across the country are saying "thank you" for not producing their future roommates.
I'm sure your maltipoo puppy is a sweet, adorable, darling little dog worthy of all the love and attention you are able to provide.
HOWEVER:
-There is no way to perform the really necessary health screenings that are performed on purebred maltese and poodle breeds BEFORE the mating, as there is no way a person can decipher what the outcome will be in terms of producing mixed-breed puppies. So, there's the first problem.
-Second problem, is that this breeder is breeding for profit...most "breeders" who produce mixed breed puppies (and even so many who are producing purebreds) ARE producing puppies, so that they fatten their pockets. Can you imagine paying between $400-$1500 for a MUTT? To me, that's deceptive, and absolutely ridiculous. A REPUTABLE breeder will sometimes break even, and the amount the pet quality puppies are sold for is barely enough to cover the expense of whelping supplies, the health screenings, etc. In fact, most reputable breeders SPEND more in the name of improving their breed than they do MAKING money from it. If you want a mutt or a mixed-breed, head on over to your shelter, interact with the SEVERAL that are already there, and pay the modest adoption fee for the mutt of your dreams...it really just makes more sense. On that same note, there are PLENTY of purebred dogs and puppies that end up in shelters every day as well...there again, modest adoption fee.
-Reputable breeders are true fanciers and experts in their chosen breed, and their true expertise is in the breed standard, in their dog's bloodlines/pedigree, their dog's occupation (if it's a working dog), conformation, temperament, performance in the show ring, or in various other performance events, such as agility trials. When they do plan a mating between champions, there's a lot of work and tedious research gone into selecting the sire and dam, as the ultimate objective is to produce puppies that will also be proven champions who are actually BETTER than the parent animals in the chosen breed. Perhaps they'll breed only once every couple of years, or every four years...it's more about recognizing an OPPORTUNITY to better the breed. And trust me, that doesn't happen on every heat cycle a bitch has during the year...BYB's don't seem to grasp this concept. Their motto tends to be, if the bitch is in heat, by God, you breed her!!! There's money to be made on those pups!
These are just a FEW of the differences between a BYB and a reputable breeder...
That's not to say that we are all going to tell you that because your dog is a mixed breed, that it's some kind of worthless piece of crap, or that you're a wicked evil person for acquiring your dog from a BYB. I just think you, like so many people, lack education on the issues of responsible breeding...a lot more people have increased their awareness on the evils of larger operations such as puppy mills, but are still not recognizing the puppy miller's elusive partner...the BYB.
Enjoy your dog, don't breed him, and have him neutered. He'll bring you a lot of joy as an altered companion, and all of the other mixed breeds waiting in shelters across the country are saying "thank you" for not producing their future roommates.
The comparison between two humans 'breeding' and two dogs 'breeding' cannot morally, educationally, logically be compared to being similar at all!
If it would be considered the same then general cheap dog foods would be illegal, putting you dog to sleep for suffering would be illegal, and people who were 'generally bad dog owners' would be thrown in jail a ton more. Comparing dogs to humans is ridiculous--as they are not the same species, amd do not have the same cognitive abilities!
The notions of humans breeding and dogs breeding, in the context you are using is way to "master-race-nazi" for me and I'm sure for others and that is why it is creepy to some I'm sure......
Dogs who are running around in the street unaltered biologically have a drive to mate--they cannot think "hey what am I doing"--"I might be creating unwanted puppies"--"I have a horrible defects I may pass on". Humans putting these dogs together is not the same as a person with full cognitive ability choosing to have a child!
If it would be considered the same then general cheap dog foods would be illegal, putting you dog to sleep for suffering would be illegal, and people who were 'generally bad dog owners' would be thrown in jail a ton more. Comparing dogs to humans is ridiculous--as they are not the same species, amd do not have the same cognitive abilities!
The notions of humans breeding and dogs breeding, in the context you are using is way to "master-race-nazi" for me and I'm sure for others and that is why it is creepy to some I'm sure......
Dogs who are running around in the street unaltered biologically have a drive to mate--they cannot think "hey what am I doing"--"I might be creating unwanted puppies"--"I have a horrible defects I may pass on". Humans putting these dogs together is not the same as a person with full cognitive ability choosing to have a child!