question about breeding.

[Milo's Daddy]

So I recently got a male Maltipoo pup from a breeder and my friend got my male pups sister from the same litter.

Originally when we were both considering getting dogs the plan was I would get the male he would get the female. And down the road we might consider breeding them. Now our intention would not be to breed them to make money rather just to have the experience and we would be able to give the puppies to our friends and family and we could have them play together on occassion.

Now originally we were not planning on getting brother and sister so now we are not planning on breeding them. I was just wondering is it okay to breed brother and sister dogs? I have read that many pedigree dogs are incestually bred.

Again I am new to the dog world and I am learning as I go along and I love my little Milo with all my heart. I highly doubt that we will breed them since they are brother and sister. But I am curious to know the truth about what would or could happen or if nothing at all negative would happen if they were to mate.

 

[Spiritus]

Littermates should never be bred. That is inbreeding, not linebreeding. That being said, I'll step on to my soapbox now.

Intentionally breeding cross bred dogs should not be done. Responsible breeders do not breed cross bred dogs. You have a Maltese/Poodle cross. A mixed breed dog. Breeding your dog will produce more mixed breed dogs, which will produce MORE mixed breed dogs, which will produce even MORE mixed breed dogs. Our shelters are full. Thousands of dogs die daily because people decide to breed their Fifi to their friend's Rufus. There are no considerations made to the genetic health of the dog, the pedigree, etc. Puppies are sold to whomever has the money, with no guarantee, no return policy, with no care of whether or not that dog ends up in a shelter.

Whether you breed them and give them away, or breed them and ask for money for the pups makes absolutely no difference. You will still be adding to the overpopulation of dogs in shelters.

I am happy that you are happy with your dog. That is what is important. Please neuter him. Don't even consider breeding him to his littermate. Don't breed him at all. Neutered boys make for some of the best family members.

 

[girlbuffalo1]

I ditto everything that Spiritus said and I believe everyone else who posts on this thread will also.

Multipoos are not pure bred dogs. In order to be a resposible breeder it would take a pure bred dog with champion parents who were tested and proven in many ways. You would also have to have this pure bred dog tested in many ways (hips, eyes ect depending on breed). Your dog would need to be a champion as well and excel in a number of different ways. Then you would have to find a female who was the same.

This isn't even getting into the whole having contracts for each person getting a puppy--being ready for extreme medical bills like c-sections ect--and being willing to take any of the pups back for their entire life.

I think a snip snip is in order!

 

[whatszmatter]

I'm not too sure how serious I should take this, BUT, litter mates should not ever ever be bred, its inbreeding, not linebreeding like Spiritus said.

and if you're trying to make perfect little dogs like your's you'll be disappointed. They create these mix breed designer dogs by taking a Maltese and poodle and breeding it. If you take the offspring of that and breed them you're more likely to end up with dogs that resemble maltese or poodles, not the cute maltipoo you have now. There is a reason that these designer dogs are not registered breeds with any reptuable kennel. THey can't solidify the genes and get consistent offspring. Even so called "reputable" breeders of these dogs will tell you that breeding maltipoo to maltipoo is a bad idea, cause you have no idea what you'll end up with, where as they have a little more consistency with maltese and poodle crosses and put a cute name to it.

 

[Herschel]

If you go to http://www.petfinder.org and search for Maltese you will get over 200 results. (It might even be closer to the thousands)

Many of these are dogs that were intentionally cross bred or bred for the wrong reasons. By breeding your mixed breed dog, you will add to overpopulation and indirectly kill several of those dogs patiently waiting on death row.

Do not breed your puppy mill dogs.

(This is coming from a person that bought a "Schnoodle" from a breeder one year ago. I messed up, I admit it. Learn, live, and stop supporting puppy mills.)

 

[Whisper]

Littermates should never be bred. That is inbreeding, not linebreeding. That being said, I'll step on to my soapbox now.

Intentionally breeding cross bred dogs should not be done. Responsible breeders do not breed cross bred dogs. You have a Maltese/Poodle cross. A mixed breed dog. Breeding your dog will produce more mixed breed dogs, which will produce MORE mixed breed dogs, which will produce even MORE mixed breed dogs. Our shelters are full. Thousands of dogs die daily because people decide to breed their Fifi to their friend's Rufus. There are no considerations made to the genetic health of the dog, the pedigree, etc. Puppies are sold to whomever has the money, with no guarantee, no return policy, with no care of whether or not that dog ends up in a shelter.

Whether you breed them and give them away, or breed them and ask for money for the pups makes absolutely no difference. You will still be adding to the overpopulation of dogs in shelters.

I am happy that you are happy with your dog. That is what is important. Please neuter him. Don't even consider breeding him to his littermate. Don't breed him at all. Neutered boys make for some of the best family members.

Great post. I ditto everything Spiritus said.

 

[bubbatd]

Ditto 5 times !!!! Please get at least one of them fixed ...hopefully the female !!!!!

 

[Milo's Daddy]

geez thanks for the flame.

I was simply asking a question for my own informational purposes. I am not going to breed them and I would not breed any dog unless I had homes or was prepared to keep them all myself.

And for the purpose who said "don't breed your puppy mill dogs". I do not have a puppy mill dog. I got my pup and my friend got the sister from a reputable breeder. I did my homework on the breeder before visiting her home. And I also know someone who got her pup from her 2 years ago.


So your assuming that my puppy came from a puppy mill is not only offensive but it clearly demonstrates your ignorance.

When you assume all you do is make an Ass out of You and You!

For those whom have provided valuable information in answering my question I appreciate the reply and I thank you for taking the time.
For all you flamers, go hug a tree or something. It was never my intention to breed to make a small business out of it. I do not know that much about breeding beit linebreeding, inbreeding or whatever. I was simply asking a question. So slow down there turbo.

 

[bubbatd]

Please read your original post again . We did not flame you . Only stated facts . Yes, the assumption they were from a Mill was wrong . I think the poster may have meant a BYB .... Most of us do not consider mixed breeds as coming from a reputable breeder .

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

Wow, let’s back things up here.

The reason people think that your dog and your friend’s dog are from an irresponsible breeder is because the ONLY reason a dog should be bred is to improve its breed.

With mixed breeds, there’s nothing to improve or work towards. Thus, there is no REASON to breed them. Unfortunately, the world is overrun with unwanted dogs. So… There is just no excuse for casual litters. Plus, you can get the same dog from death row at a shelter.

Now, its not that we are against mixes, trust me, I have one and I love him to pieces. We just don’t like to see dogs bred for companions, ads there are thousands of those waiting in shelters.

Hope that clears things up a little.

~Tucker

 

[Spiritus]

I'm with Grammy. There is no such thing as a "reputable" breeder of mixed breeds. Reputable breeders know better than to mix anything...

 

[J's crew]

geez thanks for the flame.

I was simply asking a question for my own informational purposes. I am not going to breed them and I would not breed any dog unless I had homes or was prepared to keep them all myself.

And for the purpose who said "don't breed your puppy mill dogs". I do not have a puppy mill dog. I got my pup and my friend got the sister from a reputable breeder. I did my homework on the breeder before visiting her home. And I also know someone who got her pup from her 2 years ago.


So your assuming that my puppy came from a puppy mill is not only offensive but it clearly demonstrates your ignorance.

When you assume all you do is make an Ass out of You and You!

For those whom have provided valuable information in answering my question I appreciate the reply and I thank you for taking the time.
For all you flamers, go hug a tree or something. It was never my intention to breed to make a small business out of it. I do not know that much about breeding beit linebreeding, inbreeding or whatever. I was simply asking a question. So slow down there turbo.

So you got your dog from a reputable breeder? But your dog is a mixed breed?

 

[Whisper]

JFTR, In your original post you didn't say you would keep them all.

Now our intention would not be to breed them to make money rather just to have the experience and we would be able to give the puppies to our friends and family

Please don't think we are flaming you.
Many of us are very passionate about responsible breeding. Purposely breeding two mixes as pets is irresponsible.
Like Tucker&me said, the only reason a dog should be bred is if they have proven themselves exceptional as breeding quality and if breeding will improve the purebred breed whether for working or showing purposes. Not all purebreds should be bred either.
No responsible breeder would breed just pets, when there are are millions dying in shelters every year. Every year 6-8 million go into shelters and 3-4 million are put to sleep because there are not enough homes for them all. Most of them are in there because people wanted to breed them "just to have puppies." 75% of those dogs are mix breeds who need homes. Many of which are the exact same mixes that people are pushing as designer breeds.
A backyard breeder purposely breeds pet quality dogs, mixed breeds without a working purpose, doesn't do the proper health testing, and many other reasons.
A backyard breeder is not necessarily a bad person or a mill, who may love their dogs but are not in it for more than just feeling like having puppies.
I absolutely LOVE mutts, I own some (a mostly border collie mix and a chihuahua mix), but just because they are loveable, sweet dogs with great temperaments does not mean they are breeding quality, because they are not, and if I were to breed them (hypothetically of course, they are both spayed) that would be highly irresponsible.

 

[Maxy24]

I'm sorry we got you angry, but I do not appreciate that you called us tree huggers simply because we are over protective of dogs.

That said, I agree never breed brother and sister and do not breed mixed breed dogs. I know you do not plan to now but I think it is important that you know why we do not want you to, and it is not simply because they are brother and sister.

I will start with breeding mixes. They are GREAT dogs that should NOT be bred. When a responsible breeder wants to breed their dog they will begin the process of showing their dogs in the show ring. When the dog achieves his championship he will then get health screenings and if those are good he can be bred. Contrary to what some people say/think showing is NOT a beauty contest. By showing you are proving that your dog conforms to the STANDARD for their breed. You may see a champion show dog and think he is hideous but he looks like the dog that was created years ago for some purpose (hunting, herding, retrieving, guarding etc.) and is built to best do that job.

With a malti-poo (schnodle,puggle,golden doodle, labradoodle etc.) they have no standard to be bred to. There is no need for more breeds. Malti-poos (here we call them designer breeds) were created for money and no other reason. When there is no standard people can breed willy nilly what ever they want which can lead to health problems but will definitely not lead to an actual breed, just a mix. To get a breed then malti-poos would have to be bred together for generations and a standard would have to be created. Once the standard was there people would work towards that standard and only breed dogs that come extremely close to it or match it. The problem, which was stated before was that when two malti-poos are bred more malti-poos do not come out. You get dogs that look like Maltese and dogs that look like poodles. I also don't see anyone making a standard. Plus as I said we do not need more breeds, there are enough dogs in shelter.

I DO NOT fault you for getting a designer breed, you had no idea that there was anything even remotely wrong with breeding mixes. Now you do, if you bred NOW then i would fault you, this is not a flame simply my feelings.

And for the purpose who said "don't breed your puppy mill dogs". I do not have a puppy mill dog. I got my pup and my friend got the sister from a reputable breeder. I did my homework on the breeder before visiting her home. And I also know someone who got her pup from her 2 years ago.

I have to say that what we think is a reputable breeder and what you think is a reputable breeder are most likely different.
I think a reputable breeder would not breed mixes. They would only breed champion show dogs. The dogs would be OFA and CERF tested (health screenings for hips. eyes, thyroid, luxating patella and other breed related medical conditions that can be passed on to puppies) and only those that do well on them would be bred.

I used to think as long as the dogs were healthy, clean and happy that the breeder was good. I now know that is very wrong. It's important but not even half of what makes a good breeder.

I myself would not call your breeder a puppy mill. I prefer to call them a BYB (back yard breeder) I could be just as good of a breeder as yours. All I'd have to do was go get to dogs and breed them, that is what a back yard breeder does. Then they continue, buy some more breeding dogs from the money they make and continue. You see them with happy dogs and a clean home and think they are a good breeder because that's what you think makes them good. To me a puppy mill has dogs shoved in a small space or cages being bred non stop until they die. They have diseases and are dieing in their feces. They get no attention from people at all. That is what I call a puppy mill so I would call your breeder a BYB.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear (a lecture on what makes good and bad breeders) but I see so many people who have NO idea what I just told you, and I feel it is very important in the struggle to stop BYB's and puppy mills that all people learn what makes a reputable breeder and what makes one bad.

I also want to say that NOTHING I said is in an angry tone, it's purely factual. Also the other posters were NOT flaming. I've seen them flame (though I must say the people getting flamed deserved it) and can tell you with confidence they are not flaming now. they disagree with you, it's bound to happen, but that does not mean they are flaming.

I hope this helps and that you read it through, it would mean a lot to me if you learn from it as I have learned from others here. If you have more questions ask, don't be afraid of getting flamed we just want to help even if we end up getting a bit too passionate.

 

[Maxy24]

wow, a lot of people posted while I was writing. Sorry if I repeated what they said too much.

 

[bubbatd]

Well stated Maxy .... we're here to help and educate . Someone saw Ollie the other day and thought he was gorgeous and would I breed him . I told them even if he wasn't fixed , I wouldn't . He's a mix . BTW....if you want to see flaming ask poor Mach1 !!! Poor girl was tarred , feathered and then set on fire by us !! Result was a reformed and dedicated dog owner ! We love her and she loves us !

 

[Milo's Daddy]

after reading the recent posts of Maxy and others. I would first like to appologize for coming off defensive and I would like to retract the "tree hugger" statement which admittedly is and was out of line.

Now that I understand your definition of what a good breeder is, I suppose I do have a BYB pup. He was certainly bred for companionship and not for being a show dog. The reason I felt comfortable getting my puppy from this particular breeder is because I saw the house that they were raised in, I saw both mother and father and I saw the litter, met the breeder and I felt comfortable.

I guess my debate about what make a good breeder is as follows.

Why is a breeder who breeds dogs for the purpose of creating the prefect breed and who breeds dogs for the purpose of show any better than the breeder who breeds to fulfill peoples desire for a specific type of dog?

People get pets for companionship. Pets were always had by families for the purpose of companionship or they served a specific need hunting, protection, guard dogs etc. Now I disagree with puppy mills and how they treat animals.

So a responsible breeder does not mix breeds and they breed quality dogs of same breed after testing etc. For the purpose of creating a desireable near perfect example of a specific breed or to create a dog that is best of breed. Now that dog is going to be someones pet, showdog and is likely to be sold by its original breeder.

And a BYB is mixing breeds to create a "designer dog" that is desireable by people as a pet or companion. So why can't a BYB be responsible? Whay can't they test both dogs and only breed healthy dogs. While designer breeds are not recognized by the AKC or whatever, why can't they be healthy dogs.

Dogs are the same species am I right? People are all of the same species correct?

Is it irresponsible for a white man to "breed" with a black woman? Is it irresponsible for an Asian woman to "breed" with a hispanic man? People have babies to create another family member. Similarly dogs are bred to create a family member for a wanting family.

It is my opinion that both people and pets can and are irresponsibly bred. However I disagree with your definition. Just because there are millions of dogs and cats waiting for homes in animal shelters that does not mean that a "BYB" is irresponsible for breeding puppies mixed or not that people will want. Similarly just because there are hundreds of thousands of babies and children sitting in orphanages (spelled wrong) does that mean I am irresponsible if I choose to have a baby with my wife over adopting? Of course not.

If a "BYB" is breeding any type of dogs he/she can find without knowing that people will want them then that is irresponsible. Similar to people have babies and giving them to an orphanage not knowing if someone will adopt it. That is irresponsible.

However if a "BYB" has a litter of Maltipoo's she is breeding them for a reason she knows that there is a demand for those dogs and that she will be able to find a home for them.

So again I agree that puppy mills might be irresponsibly breeding. However I do not see the harm in breeding two healthy purebreads and creating a healthy mixed dog that people want.

 

[bubbatd]

Milo's , when I bred Goldens they weren't as popular as today and though mine were from Champion lines and could have been shown ( some were by my mentor when they were young , but I chose not to show them .... being family dogs and playing in the woods was more important to us than perfect coats ) Sooooooooo , I basically bred to keep my line going and for those who were on the waiting list . I rarely had a litter every 2 years , and my females never had more that 2 litters . Some today would say I was a ByB....but I bred with all health testings and raising GOOD pups was my goal . Over 30 years , I had many families buy three generations from me . So yes , it's a fine line and I would say you got a good pup .

 

[Charliesmommy]

Wow, I can't wait to see the responses to this! I can see both sides of the issue so I'm curious how everyone responds to this.

 

[Milo's Daddy]

Milo's , when I bred Goldens they weren't as popular as today and though mine were from Champion lines and could have been shown ( some were by my mentor when they were young , but I chose not to show them .... being family dogs and playing in the woods was more important to us than perfect coats ) Sooooooooo , I basically bred to keep my line going and for those who were on the waiting list . I rarely had a litter every 2 years , and my females never had more that 2 litters . Some today would say I was a ByB....but I bred with all health testings and raising GOOD pups was my goal . Over 30 years , I had many families buy three generations from me . So yes , it's a fine line and I would say you got a good pup .

Thank you for your reply. My point is that after doing some of my own homework outside of this forum, there is no reason why dogs that a mixed dogs cannot have come from a responsible breeder.

I suppose it is a more a matter of opinion.

Thanks for the input.