Puppy dog/dog socialization

[*blackrose]

How does everyone go about dog/dog socialization with their puppies?

I was just thinking this morning...I don't expect my adult dogs to love every dog they meet. I do expect them to be polite in public and be accepting of dogs I'm trying to introduce (within reason). Which lead me to think, why would I bother trying to introduce my puppy to other dogs in public? Wouldn't it be better to start working on being polite and ignoring other dogs in public places from the get go?

The puppy would socialize with my own dogs and select other dogs that I know the pup would be seeing a lot of (friend's dogs, extended family dogs), but is it really necessary to do the whole "puppy play group" thing? Or let them greet other dogs while at Petsmart or some such in order to work on "friendly interaction" and "dog body language"?

The thought popped in to my head because 3/4 of the breeds I'm interested in aren't typically friendly with dogs outside of their family. And since as adults they will have a tendency to not like other (strange) dogs, I thought that it would make more sense to start working with them on polite disinterest towards dogs in public from the get go than it would be to have them socially play/interact with dogs in public.

When Sadie (Labrador) was a puppy she never really had any interaction with dogs outside of ours. She wasn't dog aggressive or reactive and when she was around other dogs in public she ignored them. The few times she actually met other dogs she was a bit uncertain, but fine. She was being raised as a Guide Dog, so we kept her from interacting with other dogs in public because we didn't want her thinking, "ZOMG, another dog! Play!!!!!!" if she came across another dog.

And I feel that if when Chloe was a puppy I had worked with her more on ignoring other dogs than trying to get her to accept and agreeably interact with other dogs I would have made much more progress with her reactivity issues as a young dog.

So those were my musings. Thoughts?

 

[SaraB]

I allow my puppies under 5 months to socialize with other well behaved dogs on leash so they learn there isn't anything scary or overly exciting about it. Once they hit 5 months, if they are on leash they need to pay attention to me and ignore other dogs. I still set up play dates for socialization well into their adulthood though.

 

[Maxy24]

Undersocialized dogs can become very fearful of other dogs, allowing that is just not fair IMO. Obviously not every undersocialized dog becomes fear aggressive, but it certainly increases the odds.
Even if I were getting a breed known to be DA I would socialize the heck out of him because if he's going to be DA, I don't want it to be fear based. For one thing I think it's very sad for a dog to be fear stricken every time he sees another dog. Fearful dogs are not going to want to ignore other dogs, they are going to want to make the other dog go away so that he can be safe. I think it is unfair to expect a dog who is in such a state of fear to just sit there and take it (which is what many punishment trainers force fear aggressive dogs to do). Now if the dog is DA, but it is not fear based (as would be the case with your DA breeds) it's more like teaching your dog a leave it command. It's self control, the dog might be frustrated that he has to leave the other dog alone, but you are not forcing him to be in a state of fear.

You also have to think about what if you get another dog? Socialization could mean the difference between a two minute intro, a two month intro, constant crate and rotate, or having to return the new dog.
What if a friendly loose dog runs up to you? Socialization would mean the difference between two dogs sniffing each other and a full blown fight.
What if the dog needs to be rehomed? A DA dog is very hard to find a home for.

Plus, I enjoy taking my dog to doggy places. An undersocialized dog may be too fearful to go anywhere where he could bump into another dog.

I think you are assuming that an undersocialized dog just doesn't really like to play and has no desire to meet other dogs. Sometimes this might be the case. However, when you get your puppy you have no idea if, by not socializing him, you are creating a dog who prefers to be left alone or you are creating dog who is terrified of strange dogs, and is therefore a real problem. So to me it makes no sense not to do something like socialize, especially when I myself find it rather enjoyable.


Now since you want DA breeds I do think you should teach the dog he can't just run up to a dog whenever he wants. But this does not decrease the amount of socialization, it simply requires you to teach the dog when he can and can't go up to another dog. Any pulling towards another dog and you back him away. Any barking and you back away. If you go up to someone with a dog your dog must sit beside you until you say "go greet" or something.

To me the risk of creating a fear aggressive dog is just too great to not socialize. It's a pain in the butt for you to deal with and above that, it's not fair to let your dog feel that way if you can do something about it.

 

[DougGeneration]

I believe this might help you mate, that is if you haven't read it already!

Socializing Puppies

I remember my 2 dogs as a pup, they did get along with other dogs at our place, though they only get to see a few, since our community have other preferences for their pets.

 

[*blackrose]

I guess with all of my dogs (Blackie, Rose, Sadie, Chloe), we never once really "socialized" them with other dogs. Blackie and Rose never. Sadie and Chloe had puppy class and they were frequently around other dogs, but never group play. They had healthy interactions with one another and a select few other dogs, but I never once made it a point to get them to interact with other dogs unless they initiated it. None of them had any lasting effects because of it. Well, Chloe is a bitch, but she was a bitch at three months old so I don't think that was lack of socialization.

I guess I don't see how not going out of your way to socialize your dog with other people's dogs on the street would cause a fearful dog?

It isn't that the dog would get NO dog interaction. Sort of like what SaraB said. If the puppy wants to initiate a greeting, great! But when in public, I'd much rather have my puppy calmly redirecting its attention to me and "ignoring" another dog than trying to go say hi. Polite disinterest instead of overwhelming enthusiasm, if you will. "Oh, so you want to sniff noses? Okay. But now I'm going to give my attention back to my owner for yummy treats."

How do people typically socialize a puppy with other dogs? I'm thinking that what I'm thinking of isn't all that abnormal, I may just be wording it differently.

 

[lizzybeth727]

"Oh, so you want to sniff noses? Okay. But now I'm going to give my attention back to my owner for yummy treats."

This is pretty much what I've done with Keegan. I've seen enough leash-aggressive and reactive dogs to know what I DON'T want. So as a young puppy, I felt like it was important for him to be around a lot of other dogs on leash, and learn that it's not that big a deal. So we'd go to pet stores and let him briefly sniff if he wanted, but then pay attention to me. There's a great walking/jogging trail nearby that's SUPER popular with dog people, so we would go there a lot; it was nice because most of the dog people were joggers, so they didn't want to stop and let our dogs meet.

That said, I do think it's really important that puppies get to play in playgroups with other dogs. Keegan hasn't played with many puppies his age (though he was with his litter until 8 weeks old), but he has played with a lot of adult dogs. In playgroups, he learned appropriate ways to interract with other dogs, how to read body language, how to communicate using his own body language, etc. I've worked with a lot of adult dogs that clearly have no clue how to communicate with other dogs, so I'm hoping to prevent that as well.

I guess we'll see in a few more months if he ends up growing up as a well-adjusted adult dog.

 

[clintcora]

I have Lhasa Apsos which can be a challenge socially sometimes. As puppies, we did puppy kindergarten and then lots of exposure to people. Kids on the other hands are different because Lhasas are not known to like children, unless exposed from puppyhood. I don't have kids so they didn't get much early exposure.

After vet approval, I would bring them out to many social situations like walks, etc. I would hold off dog parks until they got a bit older to handle bigger dogs. But early, on, exposure to lots of people is a good thing.