Puppy Deaths-Vomitting-New Virus Strain?

[nohea]

In mid may we bought a 6 week old golden retriever, the sweetest little girl ever. Long story short, she was with us for 7 days when she began to vomit and within 3 hours was in the emergency room where she was in liver failure. She tested negative for parvo and despite oxygen, antiobiotics, plasma and a very large vet bill she was put to sleep 24 hours after it all began. The vets thought it was a worm blockage and told us not to worry, that it would be safe to get another pup. We waited 6 weeks, and then brought home another puppy, from a different breeder some 400 miles away from the first. This time he was 8 weeks old and vet checked perfectly (as did the first) and 5 days after coming home he began to vomit, and again we went through the same ordeal. He made it 5 days before being put to rest. The vets at the emergency clinic (known all over for their excellent facility) were positive that it was mushroom poisoning. When they did the necropsy it showed that his liver was totally destroyed and whatever it was "had" to be some sort of toxin, and mushrooms are pretty much all we have around here. We didn't believe for a moment that 2 puppies who barely touched the ground outside long enough to pee could have both died with the same symtoms and have it be mushrooms.
Here is where it gets interesting....
Both tested negative for parvo, lepto, and hepatitis.
Our two other dogs who are 15 months and 2 years are fine.
**In the last 3 days two more puppies have come in with the same symptoms and died, both from different towns.**
This whole experience has been absolutely aweful and heartwrenching, but we just want to know what is causing it. The pathology dept. is now puzzled and is going back and comparing the biopsies from all of the puppies against one another. The vets are afraid that this might be a mutated strain of some virus.
Has anyone else heard of any puppies or dogs dying with symptoms like this?

 

[iky]

Nohea, I am so sorry to hear about your puppies, it must have been awful to have to go through that. We are so scared of the day that the vet tells us that Buddy needs to be put out, we just pray that that never happenes!

I have been told that when puppies vomit, they sometimes inhale some of the vomit, and that causes infection on their lungs, Buddy had to get a antobiotic when he inhaled some of his vomit. The vet said that if it is left to long, more that 24 hours, the pup could have died from it.

 

[Renee750il]

That's frightening. Is your vet working with any veterinary colleges to try to sort this out? Keep us posted.

Later on I think I'll check and see if the University of Tennessee Veterinary school might have some info on anything that sounds like this.

Iky, try not to borrow trouble. I know it's hard, but Buddy should have a long, happy life, especially with all the love and careful attention he is getting. And remember, that decision isn't up to your vet . . . it's up to you and Buddy.

 

[nohea]

Renee,
Yes, the specialist are working with UC Davis Vet School now. The thing that is scaring them the most is the fact that it hit the liver so fast and hard. I'll keep you posted. Please let me know if you find anything from your vet school.

 

[Renee750il]

UC Davis - that's an impressive source!

 

[TiggersDad]

something to consider

nohea, were those pups recently vaccinated? Also a warning for all concerned, do not under any circumstances let your vet give your dog a ProHeart 6 injection for heartworm. Many dogs have gone down within hours of receiving them and don't recover. do a search engine on proheart 6 and read for yourself. Just give the monthly pills for heartworm.
However, these symptoms do not sound like vaccine response. Nonetheless, if they had received their first round of shots, especially multiples, their already frail immune systems were in the process of dealing with the exposure. Thus weakend further, any new virus or toxin may have been too much to compensate for.
You may have better luck adopting an older pup, say 6 months or so, so that his immune system has had mor time to develope. Products such as colostrum (mother's milk anti-bodies) and Nzymes (they filter out toxins) would help to support the immune system in general.

 

[scout1]

serena what is dog show crud? i never heard of that before but i am not an exhibitor but i do go to lots of them with my dog as a spectator?

 

[nohea]

Serena-thanks for the info. and the link. I can't even remember if they did a fecal test, I'll be looking into that though. Both of ours did have progressively looser stools the two days prior, never loose enough for concern until the diarrhea though. Both were hooked up on iv with iv antibiotics. Thanks for a new voice, maybe it will spur something.

 

[MEG126]

just wanted to say that i'm sorry you're having to deal with this and it must be really difficult to experience. let's hope all this reseach that's being done on it by your vet and UC davis can benefit many more dogs from suffering from the same thing. you've already gotten lots of great advice from previous replies and i wish you the best of luck.

 

[jqpaints]

hi i'm totally new and found this site by typing in puppy deaths because we just lost our new puppy a couple of hours ago and we only had her 4 days. she started with the vomiting that the person Nohea wrote about ...am I in the right place?

 

[Renee750il]

Yep, you're in the right place. I'm sorry you had to find us through losing your puppy, though. You have all of our most sincere sympathies. We'll be keeping each other posted on what we find out!

What kind of puppy did you have? If you got her from a good breeder they should be more than willing to either refund your money or give you another puppy from a future litter. They'll also want to know what happened to her so that they can take steps to keep it from happening again.

 

[smkie]

MY vet told me a year or so ago that there was a mutated virus like Parvo called retro virus...and that there were others that were suspect as mutated from the same source. The problem with that is that the parvo virus vaccine doesn't protect them from these. Any time a puppy turns his head away from water or food I hear all kinds of alarms in my head, if he holds his tummy off of the floor like it is painful I got the red flag and the car started. Even if no symptoms are present yet. parvo always has a rotten blood smell to it..it is very distinctive. I am so sorry for your loss. I think parvo and it's cousins are evil on earth. We got hit with parvo so bad at the kennel before we even knew it existed. Came to us from a dog that was being boarded after being adopted recently from Wayside Waifs. We lost 2 litters,20 puppies and 2 handsome expensive and lush looking puppies that came from California. I stayed up for four days and nights with my boss's prize pups that were almost a year old..(my boss was a very old man by this time and could't help) .we ran ivs in the feed barn, and I asked the vet if there wasn't some kind of tranquilizer they could have to help them sleep.I believed that helped. i was so tired i wanted to duct tape them to the floor just for a minute to shut my eyes, but I didn't. The wretching had worn me out trying to keep them from ripping the iv out of their legs.. I remember rocking pdq in my arms singing the battle hymn of the repubilic trying to stay awake, his breathing had gone into Chayne stokes and I thought for sure we woulnd't make it through the night. I believe it was staying with him that made the difference,,for both dogs made it and grew into the prize breeders my boss knew they would be. The last three pups I stayed with all survived, i used subcontanious ivs (fluid stored just under the skin) that could be absorbed as they needed since they would vomit anything you tried to get down. Catching it in that very first stage is essential for the virus can kill a puppy in as little as 24 hours. That is why I am adament about puppies getting their vaccines on time and boosted for extra coverage. I don't believe it should ever be left to the new owner.Even if it is an oops litter, it is the owner's responsibilty to make sure the puppies have their protection the minute they begin weaning. The mother's milk will negate the shot, so boosting is just as important as the orginal dhlp parvo can live in the soil for up to 10 years. Bleach can be used on your kennel surfaces, but not the soil in your yard. EVen the mailman could bring it into your yard.

 

[Renee750il]

Thanks for that frightening info, SMkie! You've acquired so much real-world, practical canine knowledged in your life and I know I speak for all when I say we're grateful that you are sharing it with us.

 

[Barb04]

hi i'm totally new and found this site by typing in puppy deaths because we just lost our new puppy a couple of hours ago and we only had her 4 days. she started with the vomiting that the person Nohea wrote about ...am I in the right place?

I so sorry to hear about your puppy. My heart goes out to you.

 

[smkie]

Thank you Renee...I want to share what I have learned along the way especially if it can help puppies not go through some of what I have seen. My Mm says it is always my luck to be there when....At the animal warehouse that i worked at in my early 20's my boss had just started taking in puppies and when I came in I knew it was parvo before I even opened the door. The smell is that distinctive. The vet came and put them all down which was a blessing for them that they didn't have to suffer, unfortunately my boss was an idiot and wanted us to bleach the place down for he had a second order coming in the NEXT day. The kennels were that fiberglass that is smooth on the outside but spiky and awful on the back. I quit. I would have no part of this. IF the people i charge could just understand what a bad virus it is, and why babies have to suffer I will never understand...there just should be some kind of rule that you cant be miserable until you are old enough to deal with it. I want to share everything I have ever learned..but especially this...vaccinate...and boost!!!! You will never be sorry!

 

[nohea]

Just a follow up note:
The wonderful breeder of the second pup that died offered another litter mate. After talking with the vets and being assured that as long as we waited til all shots were done it would be fine (as our adults were fine). So, we did, he was 4 months old, came to live with us, was here for 5 weeks and then got sick in the same way. We went through the same thing, except with a happier ending, after 7 days in the Hospital and a very hefty bill, he pulled through and came home. The vets now believe that it's some virus that they've never seen, and because it took so long to manifest is most likely being re-introduced by wild animals, most likely raccoons.

Good theory, as almost 2 months later our 18 month old german shepherd suddenly got sick with the same symptoms and spent 4 days in the hospital. He also came home, leading the vets to believe that the older, bigger and stronger they are the better they can recover from this mystery virus.

I realized that I should post this to let everyone know that whatever it is can affect older dogs as well, now we're just terried that we still have 2 left that haven't gotten whatever it is and I don't think we can take much more trauma on our hearts or our checkbooks.

 

[smkie]

my vet told me a few years ago that parvo had developed into new strains..it is a trait the virus is very good at. One he called retro virus..it starts in the bowels and works it's way up. There is nothing to treat that one. I cannot tell you how i feel so bad that you have had to go thru this. there is nothing worse than watching a baby die a painful death. Thank goodness your shepard lived through this as well as your new puppy. I hope all the bad is over now and you can enjoy your canine family. I worked with two dogs that had parvo (this was so so long ago) when we were first hit with the virus and hadn't any prewarning that it existed..the vet thought they wouldn't make it. I kept them out in the feed barn with an iv in each..kept them sedated and tried to stay awake..if i even nodded they would jump up to heave and rip their iv out. The reason i write this is both did pull thru and grew up without any damage done..they were healthy big strong dogs. I hope your little pup grows exactly the same way. People should take extra precautions of bleaching the bottom of their shoes (maybe those disposable wipes)when visiting kennels and animal shelters before they even get in their cars. Parvo can be carried by the feces..can live for 10 years in the soil. If it is a mutated form i assume the rules are all the same. Bleach is the only known product to kill most viruses.

 

[nohea]

Thanks Smkie, it's been hard, but we're happy they're all with us now! Sad too, that these mutating viruses can't be vaccinated against or tested for.

 

[smkie]

anybody watch House..they have mentioned parvo virus on darn near every episode..don't know if it is the same strain..i heard of a nurse that had contracted the illness..it effected her in a respitory way..any nurses out there know? Just curious. When i had one of those dang beagle pups that were dumped on us..i was doing the iv thing..by then a routine and had the worst case of flu. The puppy and i literally collapsed in the bed, i would have to lift him down..i had papers and a trash bag plus wipes and supply of papertowels..then would lift him back up to my chest and we both groaned.

 

[bubbatd]

I had a beautiful litter of new Golden pups, when the Parvo scare first started. Scared the sh*t out of me as there wasn't a vaccine then. I had a shallow pan of bleach water outside the garage and puppy area and NO-ONE was allowed to see pups before walking through it and wiping off their shoes. Also made sure the new owners didn't take the pups to any place sick dogs may have been. Now luckily good breeders can immunize. Does scare me about bringing anything home from Shelters.