Puppy biting and drawing blood

[KT07]

I have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, 3 months old next week. She does the play biting of inapropriate things e.g. slippers, hands, even my nose. I've tried to act like the dominate dog, trying to give off that presence. It seems to have made a small dent in her behaviour. Like it only takes a few times to say 'no' to get her to stop instead of not letting go at all (though this is still happening, it's just not every time now).
She chases my nephew's feet all the time. She used to do it with me (has done once or twice recently but nothing to write home about). I'm scared she will bite him like she used to with me. But I know this is play biting and we're trying to show her what to chew instead. It is a rather slow process.
What I'm more concerned about is her aggressive biting. Sometimes when she has something she is not allowed to chew, she'll run away with it, if she sees us coming. But sometimes she will not run and just sit there and chew. We go to take the object from her but she has a vice like grip on it. Sometimes she will let go of the object, sometimes it is once we have removed it from her, she will growl, bite and not let go. She has drawn blood a few times. But, like yesterday, she was on the sofa, eating my homework. I got my paper out of her mouth no problem whatsoever, then picked her up to put her on the floor. It was in transit that she growled and bit my hand and wouldn't let go. She later did this when I took one of my nephews toys from her. Another example, is when my Dad went to stop her from eating a cardboard box. He hadn't done everything yet and she bit him, drawing blood.
She seems to be worst about an hour or two before she goes to bed for the night but it can happen any time of day. We usually crate her for time out when she does this.
She may have been a dominate dog in her litter - she had the biggest stomach while the other pups were slim, normal sizes.
She is an adorable loving little thing other times. But I have two nephews, 6 and 2 who visit often and sleepover. I am terrified she will bite them one day.

 

[Fran27]

I suggest you go see a behaviorist NOW. Such a young puppy should not draw blood. I'm thinking that by trying to 'dominate' her you might have messed up any respect she could have for you and she's now just trying to defend herself like she knows.

 

[KT07]

I suggest you go see a behaviorist NOW. Such a young puppy should not draw blood. I'm thinking that by trying to 'dominate' her you might have messed up any respect she could have for you and she's now just trying to defend herself like she knows.

I was afraid someone would say 'behaviorist'.
When I say dominant, I mean leader or teacher - like telling her 'no' for being on the sofa and teaching her she can chew her toys and not other things. But it's the other things that she gets aggressive about. She will get hold of something, she is possessive about it, to the point where she will bite.
I was reading this forum and found a couple who had a problem with a 10 week old Dane and it was like he was describing our Cavalier. I read all the responses but we had tried all the suggestions
She is still a bit shy with the kids, just as how she was with us when she first arrived. But I feel like she has gotten to know us and is now letting rip. And I'm afraid, one day, she will be the same with the kids.
We play games together, have cuddles and licks (from her to me - lol!) but then she turns nasty at those possessive times

 

[KT07]

I forgot to say that we have tried the puppy whimpering and yelping and even human cry of pain and that does make her stop biting.

 

[Ilyena]

How much exercise is she getting? Even when my cavalier was three months old, he needed quite a lot of exercise and training sessions to not get destructive and start nipping too much. I was probably out 3-4 times a day with him on a longline so he could run at his own pace. A tired puppy is a good puppy. Mine was usually sleeping over 16 hours a day because he got enough mental and physical stimulation and he has never destroyed anything that wasn't his.

For the playbiting I found ignoring him worked best. It took a few weeks but when he realized that biting got him zero attention (no sudden movements, no yelps, no yelling, not even looking at him), he stopped.

Things you don't want her to have should be picked up and kept out of her reach. She will consider anything she can get her teeth on as her belongings. Make sure she has plenty of chewies and toys on the floor at all times. When she does get something you need to get from her though, trade it. Hold a tasty treat in front of her and when she drops the item, she gets the treat. Make it a game for her so she thinks it's fun to give you the things she find.

 

[Doberluv]

Everything you describe is normal puppy behavior or dog behavior if the owner is trying to go about training by using punishment and the "dominance" panacea. Scolding, taking things from her is naturally going to cause her to be defensive because she is an animal. The running around biting at ankles sounds like play. When she sees you coming to get the thing she has in her mouth, naturally, she wants to keep it and in fact, sometimes your going after her can be a game.

What I suggest is that first, you read this article on teaching bite inhibition. Very, very important.

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bite.txt

Then I recommend you practice the give and take game, trading her for things. When you give up thinking you have to be strictly "the boss," and start looking at it as a partnership, start using solid, sound training, based on how dogs learn, you'll have an easier time. I highly recommend you read this. You'll learn not only how to stop this behavior, but you'll understand what is going on with your dog. There are also other good articles on this site.

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/RG.html

 

[KT07]

Wow! Thanks guys! I wish I came to this forum first before reading/taking advice from books and bozos on the web. I shall try these methods. They make more sense.
Will let you know how we get on.

 

[KT07]

How much exercise is she getting? Even when my cavalier was three months old, he needed quite a lot of exercise and training sessions to not get destructive and start nipping too much. I was probably out 3-4 times a day with him on a longline so he could run at his own pace. A tired puppy is a good puppy. Mine was usually sleeping over 16 hours a day because he got enough mental and physical stimulation and he has never destroyed anything that wasn't his.

I say she was getting about 12 hours a day (I have no idea if she is awake in the night and goes back to sleep). She was about 4 walks a day and is out in the garden for 30-60 mins depending on the weather. Though, today it has been terrible rain so she hasn't had her time in the garden and only 3 walks - but this is not the norm.

 

[Herschel]

I am going to second this article: http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bite.txt

Please don't post any more questions about bite inhibition until you read the entire article. It will answer your questions. The results won't be immediate, but they will be effective. Try the Shirley Chong method for 1 week. If you don't start to see an improvement, try something else.

All of the talk about dominance? Haha. Yeah right. It's just a puppy being a puppy.

 

[Doberluv]

I wouldn't give up after a week. Keep with the same routine. It can take longer than a week because up to now, what she has been doing has been working. She's going to keep trying because that's how we all do things. And finally, she will find that it doesn't work to do what she's been doing, but something else does. (an alternative that you give her). Modifying a behavior can take longer than a week. She will probably try even harder to do what she has been doing before she changes her behavior because that's how behavior works. Just before she's about to change over, she'll likely have what is called an extinction burst where she gives it her all. LOL. So, don't give up. Keep at it.

Can't wait to hear how things go. Everyone who interacts with her must do the same, remember.

Do ask questions if you have them and if anything is unclear. You can count on me to give you clear as mud descriptions and long winded posts.

 

[Herschel]

I wouldn't give up after a week. Keep with the same routine. It can take longer than a week because up to now, what she has been doing has been working. She's going to keep trying because that's how we all do things. And finally, she will find that it doesn't work to do what she's been doing, but something else does. (an alternative that you give her). Modifying a behavior can take longer than a week. She will probably try even harder to do what she has been doing before she changes her behavior because that's how behavior works. Just before she's about to change over, she'll likely have what is called an extinction burst where she gives it her all. LOL. So, don't give up. Keep at it.

Can't wait to hear how things go. Everyone who interacts with her must do the same, remember.

Do ask questions if you have them and if anything is unclear. You can count on me to give you clear as mud descriptions and long winded posts.

Haha. I was just trying to make sure that she reads the article. Like I've said before, I feel so bad that people keep asking questions after you've given them a perfect answer.

 

[KT07]

Doberluv, thank you for your advice. I hope I am not tempting fate here but it's been 2 days of using the 'trading' technique and she has not bitten or even growled. We're using this technique also for getting her off the furniture.
I tried telling my 6 year old nephew what to do but she is still chasing his feet. I told him to try to make the toy more interesting but is failing. Those walking feet are just more interesting than a toy. He sometimes runs when he sees her coming which only makes things worse. But I'm sure once he is trained to use the toy properly, she won't bother his feet. But what do you do with a 2 year old? Sometimes he's happy to throw her a toy and other times he tries to kick her away. He has yet to make contact with her but I'm afraid one day may come

 

[Doberluv]

Good idea Herschel. That article is sooooooooo good! LOL.

KT....what I would do if even when your 2 yr old stands still and your puppy still goes after his feet is to calmly, not angrily send your puppy to his crate. Not as punishment, but as a time out. Fun is OVER Mr. LOL. Only leave him there for a minute tops. Try again. The second he goes toward your son's feet to bite, back in the crate. Remember, do not scold the puppy when you put him in the crate because it must not be associated with more of a rotten time than simply being alone for a minute. Repeat as necessary. After several repititions of this, he should make the connection that biting ankles equals the end of playtime. When you let him back out, give him a really fun chew toy, something that you put away except for these times...something novel, special. That's his alternative, which must follow the ending of the thing he was liking to do....bite your son's ankles. Remember, only a minute in the crate, then back out. The more opportunity for reinforcement of playing nicely, the quicker he'll get onto it. Very important: When he is playing around your son and does not bite his ankles (or other rough biting)....give him a reason to continue playing that nice way. Praise and even a yummy, tiny treat. Show him the difference between what happens when he's too rough (social isolation) and what happens when he plays nicely. (treats/praise and continued playing with a replacement toy) Rope toys are fun to drag around and shake, Kongs with a thin lining of peanut butter inside or yogurt. (frozen overnight) Supervise with rope toys, as the strings can be dangerous when they pull out.

If he is biting and ignoring, walking away, replacing with another toy to bite on works, leave it at that. If he follows after ankles and bites even when you or your son tries to walk away, a minute of social isolation. (immediate, non-punishingly, but matter of fact and just for a minute)

Glad to hear that the trading game is working. It usually does. Have you turned it into a fetching/retrieving game? That is fun and helpful too.

Thanks for letting us know how things are going. Hope they continue to improve.

 

[KT07]

Hi Doberluv!
Will try that quiet minute thing next time my nephew is here. It is my 2 year old nephew that will kick her away. Luckily, he has yet to make contact. He's just not an animal lover. He isn't fond of our hamster either.
If only she can master toilet training now - lol!
Thank you for your help. I love this forum!

 

[Doberluv]

You're welcome. I hope what little help I can offer will indeed help. LOL.

Oh yeah, your nephew, not your son. LOL. (one of my senior moments) Well, do make sure he is gentle with puppy and learns how to interact properly or else keep him and your puppy separated. Your puppy must be kept safe and kept from having a bad experience with children. If he gets kicked or otherwise mauled or frightened, it can cause him to grow up with aggression or fear toward children. Very, very difficult to correct later. So, keep all his socialization experiences pleasant and associated with very good things.

Did you check out the sticky thread on potty training without being mean? There are some very good tips in there.

Thanks for letting us know how things are going.

 

[KT07]

Hi Doberluv!
I think my nephew is getting used to her. He has not attempted to kick her lately. Phew! And I think she's getting used to my elder nephew - she's not so interested in chasing his feet (though still does a bit).
We have had good few days of the trade game. But then it went sour I think she's bored of the trade game, maybe realising that if she goes for the toy, she's going to lose her prize. Example is when she had a sock (doesn't matter if they are dirty or clean), she was distracted with a toy, happy to leave the sock. She played with the toy abit then went back to her sock - but it was gone! And she was frantically sniffing the area she had left it.
She has gone to bite us a few times. The toy trade seems to have worn off, not bothered by them one bit. But I had hope this morning. She had a leaf which I needed to get off her. She was running around the room, thinking I was coming after her, which I wasn't, I was reaching for a toy. She ran to the other side of the room with her leaf and laydown to play and possibly eat it. I knew she would just run some more if I tried to take it off her. So I out one of her toys and played with it myself, trying to project the image that I was having the time of my life. I could see her looking at me all the time and in the end, it was too much for her and wanted to join in with my game, leaving the leaf behind.
She started off really well, went down and I'm hoping she's picked it back up again
Toilet training - well since I have posted that message, she has been going outside! However, she does not like the rain or if it has just stopped raining and the ground it still soaking wet. She'll take one look then come straight back in the house to do her business. But I am delighted that she does most of her business outside

 

[Xerxes]

Everything you describe is normal puppy behavior or dog behavior if the owner is trying to go about training by using punishment and the "dominance" panacea. Scolding, taking things from her is naturally going to cause her to be defensive because she is an animal. The running around biting at ankles sounds like play. When she sees you coming to get the thing she has in her mouth, naturally, she wants to keep it and in fact, sometimes your going after her can be a game.

What I suggest is that first, you read this article on teaching bite inhibition. Very, very important.

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bite.txt

Then I recommend you practice the give and take game, trading her for things. When you give up thinking you have to be strictly "the boss," and start looking at it as a partnership, start using solid, sound training, based on how dogs learn, you'll have an easier time. I highly recommend you read this. You'll learn not only how to stop this behavior, but you'll understand what is going on with your dog. There are also other good articles on this site.

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/RG.html

:hail: :hail: :hail: Great post! Good advice and good linkys too!

To add one thing: If you are still in contact with your breeder, she/he will be a wealth of information. If you purchased this dog from a pet store/pet broker, you'll need to double your efforts now to have a good dog tomorrow.

 

[Doberluv]

Thanks Xerxes.

Kt...when she gets a sock and you trade her for a yummy treat (tid bit of string cheese or piece of chicken or steak....something really good), give her the treat, tell her, "drop it" or "give" (whichever you are going to use....I use "give" for putting it in my hand and "drop" for dropping it on the floor) and give her back the sock. (if you can sacrifice it) If you don't want her getting socks at all, keep them put away so she can't get hold of one. Whenever possible, trade a treat, then give back the item. Do it again a few times, then try to change the subject...get her interested in something else when you need to put the thing away. Just get her to have the idea that all is not lost when you take something from her, that she usually gets something BETTER, plus she gets the thing back again. Of course, sometimes you have to take something because it's dangerous and that's why you need to get a good, "give" or "drop it" trained into her. When you trade her, make sure that what you give is of higher value than what she has that you need to take. Much later, you won't have to trade her except once in a while to keep her fresh. But for now, do it every time. Once she gets into the habit, it will be easier.

Of course, by giving the item back, she doesn't learn very well what is your stuff and what is hers. She does need to develop a sense about that. So, it's really quite important to keep the things you don't want her to have put away. "Leave it" is another very useful trick to learn. Do a search and see what you can find. If you can't find anything, ask. There are a couple of ways to train that and one way, I think helps them get the idea of what is your stuff and what is their's. I'll explain that way if you want me to and can't find anything. Just ask.

Keep her busy with some fun obedience things or a little romping game outside at those times she seems stuck on the idea of playing with something you don't want her to have. Exercise does wonders for those one tract mind dogs that are desperately looking for something to get into. LOL.

As far as the rain, I have one of those. All I can do is act pretty insistant. "Come on....let's go. This isn't going to hurt you, you big baby." LOL. I try to do a little running and playing out there for a minute to try to show that rain isn't going to melt you. LOL. That's Chulita...she can be quite the baby about rain. Lyric too sometimes unless we're on a walk. Then they're OK. But just to go out to potty, sometimes they make me feel like I'm really a rotten person. LOL

Good that your nephew is getting the picture. Sometimes little kids and dogs don't mix. They really have to be closely supervised.

 

[KT07]

I am nervous about the treat thing. Nervous that she'll turn into a spoilt brat. But I will try (almost) anything because sometimes she's an angel. There was a whole pile of clothes including socks in a basket and she just sat next to them. Then 1/2 hour later, she's turning into devil dog over a cardboard box.
Your little Chulita sounds like my Katie with the rain. I too have tried the fun in the rain routine with her. 90% of the time it don't work - lol!

Good that your nephew is getting the picture. Sometimes little kids and dogs don't mix. They really have to be closely supervised.

Will watch them. It's not just dogs, he don't like our hamster either - lol!

 

[Doberluv]

Don't worry about turning her into a spoiled brat. Behavior is dependent on reinforcement. It's what drives behavior. If you want a change in your dog's behavior, she must be rewarded for those times that she complies with what you want. It must be worth her while to give you an item.

Later...down the road, when she's getting onto this game (be sure and make it a fun game, not a drill seargent exercise) ....once she is getting very reliable about giving you things when asked, you will go to a variable reward schedule, whereby you do not have to reinforce each and every time. But will skip a few times, then reinforce, skip another few times (vary the number of times) and treat again. Gradually, you'll space out the treats more and more, but still fairly frequently, you'll want to trade because this wanting to hang onto her stuff is a very instinctual behavior. Dogs need to hang onto their stuff to "survive." So, make it a fun, lively game and very rewarding for her to give you things. Back and forth, give, take. Teach fetch and teach her to bring a ball back etc. And you'll end up with a willing dog who enjoys giving you things you ask for.

What do you mean a devil dog over a cardboard box? What did she do?

That is odd that your nephew doesn't like animals. What do you suppose caused that?