Protein and Kidney Disease

Discussion in 'Dog Food and Recipes' started by pitbulliest, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. pitbulliest

    pitbulliest New Member

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    I was reading an article online about protein and kidney failure...and how there have been tests performed that supposedly prove the connection between high protein diet and kidney disease...the article stated that dogs receiving more than 30% protein were at a higher risk of having kidney problems than dogs who were receiving 22-30%

    I personally feed my dogs a raw diet when I can..which has more than 50% protein..I also feed a high protein/low grain kibble (timberwolf organics), and I feed home cooked food...which is about 60/40 protein, the rest being veggies or whole grains such as oatmeal or barley + supplements.

    What are all your opinions on the relationship between too much (according to this article and some others I've seen similar to it) protein in the diet, and kidney problems?
     
  2. showpug

    showpug New Member

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  3. pitbulliest

    pitbulliest New Member

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    Ahh..thank you :)
     
  4. xyourlocaldjx

    xyourlocaldjx New Member

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    what about ash content in evo?
     
  5. Herschel

    Herschel New Member

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    "The dietary requirement for protein is satisfied when the dog’s metabolic need for amino acids and nitrogen is satisfied. Optimal diets should contain 22-25% protein as dry matter for growing puppies, and 10-14% for adult dogs. Optimal diets should contain at least 24-28% ME as protein for growing kittens, and ~20% for adult cats. Growing kittens are more sensitive to the quality of dietary protein and amino acid balance than are adults. Protein suitable for cats must supply >500 mg of taurine/kg diet dry matter. Unless synthetic essential amino acids are added, some animal protein is necessary in the diet to prevent taurine depletion and development of feline central retinal degeneration or dilated cardiomyopathy."

    "High protein intakes per se do not cause skeletal abnormalities in dogs (including osteochondrosis in large breeds) or renal insufficiency later in life in cats."

    http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/182902.htm
     
  6. ToscasMom

    ToscasMom Harumph™©®

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    I do know that ash is significant for cats, often cited as a factor in Feline Urological Syndrome, I had no idea it was relevent for dogs. Is it? I also notice that Taurine, which has always been a necessary thing for cat health is now talked about more and more in dog food. Is the addition of taurine very recent, as I notice only some foods add it to their formulas?? Just curious.
     
  7. StealthDog

    StealthDog New Member

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    Ash is just an easy way to measure minerals- so, ash content means mineral content. High mineral content can be a good thing for growing dogs (minerals being important for growing bones), but could be a bad thing for breeds where you want to limit growth (like giant breeds).

    Taurine is not recognized as an essential amino acid for dogs- both dogs and cats can synthesize it, but cats can't synthesize it at a fast enough rate for how quickly they use it.
     
  8. ToscasMom

    ToscasMom Harumph™©®

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    Thanks for explaining the ash thing better, Stealth.

    As for Taurine, I notice it's in a few dog foods now and I have read a few recent articles on it, discussing cardiomyopathy and other things that I always thought were Cat Taurine issues only. I always suplemented my cats with Taurine but I see it is now added to some dog foods.
     
  9. StealthDog

    StealthDog New Member

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    Wow, TM, I learned something! You're totally right about taurine and heart disease. Here's what I found from the Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association:

    *DCM is dialated cardiomyopathy, or an enlarged/weakened heart

    "Because dogs readily make taurine from free sulfur amino acids, only lose a small amount in their bile acids, and can maintain normal blood levels of taurine despite their diets, they do not tend to develop taurine-deficient DCM. However, a study of beagles fed a high-fat, low-protein diet showed they had decreased plasma and blood levels of taurine and had decreased myocardial function (albeit not DCM). A study of nine male Dalmatians with DCM showed that eight were on low-protein diets and six had low blood taurine levels. One of these dogs improved with a change in diet. In another study, 13 of 15 dogs with cysteine and urate urolithiasis had low plasma taurine levels, and four of these dogs had DCM. Myocardial function of these four dogs improved with L-carnitine and taurine supplementation.

    In a recent article, 12 dogs of various breeds with DCM that were on diets having main ingredients of lamb and/or rice had low plasma and blood taurine levels. These dogs received taurine supplementation plus standard treatments for their DCM, and for the dogs that lived >3 months, heart size and contractility improved. Dogs that survived for >1 year had their cardiac medications discontinued and were only left on taurine supplementation. The median survival time for these 12 dogs was markedly greater (i.e., 456 days) than that for dogs with primary DCM (i.e., 27 to 65 days). This study concluded that the DCM in these dogs was a secondary nutritional DCM that occurred when taurine precursors were limited in the diets.

    A group of five related golden retrievers with DCM were found to have decreased plasma taurine levels. All of the dogs’ echocardiographic findings improved within 3 to 6 months of starting taurine supplementation, and four were eventually weaned off all cardiac medications. These findings provided further evidence of a secondary nutritional DCM in dogs. In a study of 19 Newfoundland dogs that were interrelated by environment, diet, or breeding to a Newfoundland with DCM and low taurine levels, 12 were found to have low plasma (<40 nmol/mL) and blood taurine levels. None of the Newfoundlands had clinical (n=12) or echocardiographic (n=6) evidence of DCM."

    All of the above reports suggest there are many possible causes of taurine-deficient DCM in dogs. One potential cause is insufficient synthesis of taurine from a lack of amino acid precursors in the diet or from the animal’s inability to synthesize taurine. Other causes may include impaired absorption, increased metabolic need, altered taurine-conjugated bile acid circulation, and increased urinary excretion of taurine or its precursors."


    So it sounds like in general, taurine is not neccesary in the canine diet (like it is for cats), but in dogs that are compromised somehow, their ability to synthesize taurine can decrease.

    The author concludes:

    "Carnitine and taurine are the two nutritional supplements that have been investigated more than other supplements or herbs in dogs and cats, and they have been found to be beneficial in treating certain cardiac diseases. The exact mechanism of action and benefits of these two supplements are not fully understood and require further investigation."

    This article was published in 2005, so it sounds like the study of taurine in dogs is still pretty new...

    Thanks for the lesson! ;-)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  10. ToscasMom

    ToscasMom Harumph™©®

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    Stealth I learned about cardiomyopathy and taurine the hard way, when I lost a cat to cardiomyopathy quite a number of years ago and started reading and reading. Since then I have always supplemented my cats with Felovite-II, which is the taurine enhanced mixture. Since I have been known to have cats to live into their 20s or darn close, and I have not had a cat with any heart issues since, I tend to attribute it to that mixture in part, although I can't tell for sure of course. I always thought it odd that most vets don't mention much about taurine to cat owners though. It is only recently though, that I have seen pieces on dogs and taurine. I guess as a minimum it couldn't hurt. If your information is published in 2005, it probably won't be long before all premium dog foods have it in their mix, you think?
     
  11. StealthDog

    StealthDog New Member

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    It's hard to say- I guess it depends on if research shows that providing additional taurine can help prevent heart problems, or if it just helps to treat heart problems in dogs that have already developed them. It doesn't seem like adding taurine could hurt anything... I mean, it's just another amino acid. So perhaps if companies decide that adding it can't hurt and could potentially even help, then we will see more and more companies adding it.

    As far as cats and taurine, I know pretty much everyone in my class was aware that it's an essential amino acid for cats, and we've had it repeated in at least three different classes (and several times in biochemistry). So at least they're putting an emphasis on it now. Sorry about your kitty :-(

    EDIT:

    Huh, this is interesting:

    Ever heard of this with regards to lamb/lamb and rice diets?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2006
  12. ToscasMom

    ToscasMom Harumph™©®

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    I'm a cat veteran but a dog newbee so I surf a lot to learn about dog, but the only thing I saw on taurine was, like I said, that they were determining that it was helpful with regard to the cardiomyopathy. I don't remember reading anything about lamb specifically but now that you mention it. Google has a lot on it so it must be being studied at a faster rate than we know.. It IS interesting.

    Seems a few companies are pushing the taurine supp. in their lamb and rice formula though.

    http://www.nutroproducts.com/press100201.asp

    And here's one saying lamb and rice can contribute to a deficiency in taurine. Seems like google has a lot about it.

    http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1439-0396.2003.00446.x

    And here's another claim on taurine helping a family of goldens with heart issues
    http://www.jaaha.org/cgi/content/abstract/41/5/284
     
  13. StealthDog

    StealthDog New Member

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    Tosca, I asked about this in class the other day (it received a "Great question" from the prof, BTW... ;-) ). She said exactly what you did, that some dogs just can't form taurine, and that taurine deficiencies lead to cardiomyopathies just like in taurine-deficient cats. She said that certain breeds are predisposed to it, and that she expects dog food to start moving towards more individual-type marketing (like Royal Canin already is, with breed-specific diets). She said the most recent movement was to come up with an "optimal diet" for all dogs, and now we'll likely see a shift towards recognizing genetic differences between breeds and diets that address breed-specific nutrition requirements.
     
  14. ToscasMom

    ToscasMom Harumph™©®

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    Hey Stealth I'm glad she liked the question. Hope I contributed to an "A". heehee.

    Incidentally, Natural Balance Ultra Premium has Taurine supplement in it now. I bet some of the other premium foods do too. It would be interesting to note which ones are on the early recognition stick wouldn't it?

    I will die wanting to be a vet. I'm glad we have people like you working so diligently to become state of the art vets.
     
  15. pitbullpony

    pitbullpony BSL Can Be Beaten

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    Taurine and kidney failure/high protein

    First the taurine thingie from: http://rawfed.com/myths/standards.html
    These "complete and balanced" and "not harmful" pet foods can destroy long-term health and cause disease and yet still be marketed as a healthy food for your pet. This has been PROVEN true. An example would be the lamb and rice commercial diets that had met or exceeded the nutrient profiles of AFFCO, and that had passed the AAFCO feeding protocol yet created a taurine deficiency in the dogs that ate them (Torres, C.L.; Backus, R.C.; Fascetti, A.J.; and Rogers, Q.R. Taurine status in normal dogs fed a commercial diet associated with taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy. Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition. 87 (2003). 359-372.). The dogs suffered from dilated cardiomyopathy; what is particularly distressing is that dogs can synthesize taurine from the readily-available (at least, in raw food) amino acids methionine and cysteine (whereas cats cannot), yet they still developed cardiomyopathy from this AAFCO-approved food! As a result, taurine is added into many commercial diets, but what about the dog owners whose pets became seriously ill and perhaps even died as a result of this oversight?


    Protein = kidney disease = from what I've been reading; there appears to be no link between high protein intake and kidney disease - either human, cat or dog.
    If a dog is affected by kidney disease; visit this link, looks promising.
    http://courses.vetmed.wsu.edu/vm552/urogenital/crf.htm#causes of CRF

    Modification of dietary protein intake: It is generally agreed that reducing dietary protein intake can ameliorate some of the clinical signs of uremia. The controversial aspects of protein modification include when to restrict protein, how much protein is needed, and will protein restriction delay the progression of renal disease? Some studies in rats, humans and dogs demonstrate that high protein diets result in glomerular hyperfiltration that in turn contributes to progression of deterioration in renal function suggesting that protein restriction in patients with CRD may ameliorate glomerular hyperfiltration and delay disease progression. This is not accepted universally regarding dogs with renal failure (see Finco 1989 in Current Veterinary Therapy X).

    The optimal dietary protein requirements for dogs and cats with CRF are not established. Current commercial renal failure diets contain

    * Dogs - 1.9 - 5.2 grams of protein/100 kcal high biologic value protein
    * Cats - 5.4 - 7.2 grams of protein/100 kcal high biologic value protein

    The protein source determines the biologic value and usability of the protein. Proteins with high biologic value can be readily converted to body proteins with minimal waste production. Animal proteins have a higher biologic value than vegetable proteins. Eggs have the highest biologic value.

    Protein modification can be achieved with homemade diets or commercial diets such as Hills KD and UD.

    Phosphorous appears to be more of a concern than protein; Phosphorus restriction may delay the progression of renal failure and will minimize hyperparathyroidism. Protein restricted diets are also restricted in phosphorus. If phosphorus remains increased while feeding a protein restricted diet, phosphate binding agents which bind phosphorus in intestinal tract can be administered. Allow about 2 weeks of feeding just the phosphate restricted diet to determine its impact on blood phosphorus concentration before adding phosphate binders. Samples to analyze serum phosphorus should be obtained after a 12 hour fast. Phosphate binding agents include aluminum carbonate, aluminum hydroxide, calcium citrate and calcium carbonate. Phosphate binding agents are given with meals (or mixed with food) and are dosed to effect to normal serum phosphorus levels. Side effects may include hypophosphatemia, constipation, and aluminum toxicity. Aluminum toxicity causes encephalopathies and bone disease in humans, neither of which have been documented in cats or dogs. Calcium containing phosphate binding agents (acetate, carbonate, citrate) should not be used until serum phosphorus is reduced to < 6 mg/dl. Monitor blood calcium and phosphorus concentrations at 10 to 14 day intervals while determining the necessary dose, then at 4 to 6 week intervals when serum phosphorus has normalized.

    Most meat portions that I have used have only been 10% to 20%, but you would want to calculate the phosphorous portions. I think it is significant that homemade diets for renal failure in dogs is even mentioned on a vet med site.;)
     
  16. ToscasMom

    ToscasMom Harumph™©®

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    I think it's all about learning. My first dog was fed KenL ration because it was the best there was out there. We have come a long way and will come a longer way. But in the end, it's all about learning as they go. I wouldn't call it oversight so much as part of the learning process. As I said, I had a cat die of cardiomyopathy at a time when nobody knew that much about how important taurine was. I can't blame the field of science then for not knowing...yet. I had a dog die of chocolate toxicity a long time ago, well before anybody even thought that chocolate was toxic to dogs. Look at it this way if you can: there are so many humans who are dying of diseases that one day will be resolved or cured. It wouldn't be because of oversight so much as the process of learning that hadn't yet caught up to the cure. Years ago people died because there were no antibiotics. But we caught up. People died when there were no transplant successes. But we caught up. So, I think will the science of pet nutrition. Compared to a few decades ago, I would say they have come a very long way.
     

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