Protective dogs, what do I do?

[doglovertina]

Hi all. I decided I needed to come to the infinite pool of wisdom here at Chazhound to get some advice for my pups.

I have five dogs, three girls, two boys. The two boys are the sons of our baby, Sadie. (Sadies four now, but you know how it is.)

These boys are wonderful, brilliants dogs and I love them to death. But I am very concerned about their aggression towards people coming into my yard.

Let me say first though, I have very mixed emotions about my situation which is why it's so hard to figure out.

These boys are very protective of my family and our yard. They have bit a few people who were hanging over, and in once case, near our fence while talking to me or my husband.

In the situation with the person near the fence... the man creeped me out and made me very uncomfortable, so, don't take me wrong, but I'm not unhappy about it. I asked him what he was doing and he wouldn't answer me until he approached me at the fence and I had my two small children with me.

But, they have also bit some friends. All of them were leaning on our fence and talking to us but they weren't anyone that should send a dog's radar off.

They seem to be worse when someone is holding an object.

So, I know that there are kids around here that tease my dogs, though I'm home all the time so it is kept to a minimum. But there have been sticks thrown and barking at the dogs (which drives them crazy) and hitting the fence while taunting.

So I know that my dogs have a reason to be leary of people in this situation. But I don't know what to do. If I put up signs, stupid people will ignore them. If I don't, friends pop by and don't know. And they can't come knock on the door unless they come in the fence....

Calling first doesn't always work. So what do I do??? We're hoping to move to a better location but I still want to know how to train them to not bite people so quickly. Because frankly, I don't want to castrate them. (figuratively speaking of course)

But people need to be safe too. So what do I do?


Any ideas? Suggestions? Thoughts?

Thanks all.

 

[doggiesavior]

aggressive puppies

The only way that you can help the dogs with their aggressiveness is to get them out of the situation. Can't you bring the dogs into your home? Have you said anything to the people tormenting the dogs? Why don't you want to castrate your dogs? There are SOOO many unwanted dogs out there. If a dog has 2 litters a year and has 5 puppies in each litter and those 5 puppies have puppies....... you get what I'm saying. Look at the overcrowded shelters. These dogs and puppies don't ask to be here but they end up losing their lives in these horrible places. The local animal shelter here puts down over 2000 dogs a year at least!! Not to mention the ones on the streets. Just something to consider!

 

[doglovertina]

My dogs are labs and not really what I would call indoor dogs. They need to be able to run and play and my house isn't big enough for that. And they are fenced, and don't get out to cause litters of dogs that won't be taken care of. I don't think castration is the same as nuetering, though it depends on who you ask. Yes, we do talk to the people who tease our dogs and their parents too. But people have less and less respect and seem more inclined to do whatever they feel like and don't want to be corrected.

Getting dogs out of the situation means getting rid of my dogs, which isn't going to happen because they are part of my family, or moving, which we plan on doing, as I mentioned, hopefully this year.

I was looking for alternative suggestions. Thanks.

By the way, my dogs are already nuetered.

 

[Barb04]

Is it possible to give them a separate fenced-in area to run in?

 

[Doberluv]

Do your dogs ever come inside? It sounds like some desensatization could work. If your dogs are fine with your friends inside or even inside your yard, you can have them give your dogs treats. Then ask them to go on the other side of the fence and toss some treats over and talk sweetly to the dogs. Then they can come back inside. Show the dogs that not everyone will hurt them. They still might not like strangers sticking their hands over the fence, but at least your friends may be more accepted.

To keep other people from being bitten, you might try a strand of electric wire above the fence so the dogs won't tend to get too close to it. You need a fence charger, some insulators and the wire. It will probably encourage people to stay back and not reach over the fence.

 

[Renee750il]

Tina, can you put a separating fence between the back and the front yard so that your dogs can be in the back yard when you expect friends?

Then, familiarizing your dogs with certain people is the way to go, but I really don't suggest having other people give any kind of food to your dogs. You don't want your dogs to take food from anyone but you and possibly your vet, especially since you've got people in your neighborhood who tease the dogs. We went through that with my Terrier, Mickey and with my first German Shepherd, Purdue. Honestly, you wonder how stupid someone has to be to tease a GSD! And what kind of jerk teases a Lab?

You're probably going to need to just tell people not to lean over the fence when they're talking to you or your husband, then call the dogs over and introduce them so the dogs know it's okay.

Emma will probably be more help . . . (she just loves it when I do that to her, lol! But she's always right on the money.)

 

[doglovertina]

We do have a fence for the dogs that keeps them on one side of the yard or the other, but we are on a corner lot and so there's exposure all around. The place we hope to get will definitely help this situation as we will build it to our specificiation. It's just not possible for us to do it now.

I have warned our friends so most people are aware to wait for one of us to bring them in and we pet the boys and talk them and tell them that our friends are okay and that it's okay to to let them in to our yard. And once they are in, it's fine. It
seems like the fence is the only point of agitation.

The new place will let the dogs have a good portion of yard to themselves but it will be away from the entrance to our house and we'll have a hotwire on the top of the fence to encourage everyone to keep on their respective sides.

But, by posting here, I also wanted to put out some feelers and see if anyone would say I needed to get rid of my dogs because they were bad. See, a couple of people close to me say they are bad dogs, but I KNOW better.

And I figured anyone who knew anything about dogs would agree, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't overly biased.

So I guess I'll hang in here for this year until we get our new house and hope there are no casualties until then.

As always, Renee, thanks for your advice.

 

[Saje]

Make sure you have a sign up so that people are aware - if you haven't already.

 

[CreatureTeacher]

What do you mean by saying your dogs are neutered but not castrated? I'll do my best to help out, but I want to make sure I have all the facts straight first!

And DON'T get rid of your dogs!! There's no such thing as a "bad" dog. There are just bad people and miscommunications. You are just having some communication problems; I've got a few thoughts for you already! I'll let you know what my thoughts are when I'm sure I understand your boys'...physical state.

 

[Renee750il]

Actually, Saje, those Beware of Dog signs can actually open you up to more problems. You're announcing to the world that you have "vicious dogs" and admitting previous knowledge, not to mention getting your homeowners' insurance cancelled immediately.

It's a good practical thought, but we don't really live in a sensible world . . .

 

[Saje]

I meant I sign that asked people not to lean over the fence. I always understood that owners would be less liable if they gave a word of caution first.

I wonder if our insurance practises are different here. I've never heard of people having problems because of their breed of dog or any signs or anything. Maybe that depends on where they live. I'm going to look into that.

 

[doglovertina]

I agree with you Renee. We have the signs but haven't put them up for that exact reason. They aren't viscious dogs. But like some dogs will growl if someone holds a newspaper if they've been hit with one, my dogs act up when people talk while leaning over my fence. If they come in the gate, my boys just stand away barking but they don't go up to anyone.

Twice in the two and half years since they were born they got out of the fence and never bit or chased anyone.

In fact, during the one bite of the creep I mentioned, we had to go to court. After explaining the sitation to the judge, he only made us pay a fine, where other dogs in our area have been put down for biting anyone once. But he didn't say we needed to put signs up.

I know, common sense says warn people... but common sense also says don't get your face over a fence with barking dogs who are baring their teeth...

There always has to be someone who thinks they are a dog charmer who comes prancing up and hanging their arms over the fence and talking tour dogs and staring at them in the eyes without us introducing them to the dogs.

Uhm, anyone else think it's not a good idea to stare a strange dog down when trying to come into his territory?

I might have the wrong attitude but, I get so frustrated.

As for the castration issue, forget about it. They are nuetered, period. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[homelessdog]

I did put up a sign because of my dog. Mainly because our meter reader has to come into our yard, and I want him to make sure he checks with me before walking into my yard. But then nearly every house on our block has a "beware of dog" sign somewhere. I think the signs are important.

I didn't understand the comment about them not being inside dogs. Do they stay outside all the time?! If that's the case then it's no wonder that they've become boundry aggressive. You have bigger problems to worry about if you're dogs aren't staying inside with you the majority of the time. I understand needing to run and play, and that's fine and very very important for a lab. In fact, excercise should be the first order of business every day. A tired dog is a well behaved dog.

My first suggestion is to start working intensely on the "Come" command. You want to get your dogs to a point where they will drop whatever they are doing and come to you.

Secondly, stay outside with them whenever they are outside until they've gotten over any stranger aggression. They only need to be outside in the yard to play and go potty, and you should be around for both of those times.

If you see a person approaching, warn the person to stay back from the fence, even if it's a friend that you're talking too. They shouldn't ever reach over the fence to try and pet the dog. If the dogs are behaving and not acting dominant or aggressive, then you can gage whether or not to invite your friends into the yard to meet the dogs. But if they're barking and growling then don't even try. Plant some tie outs in your yard for times when you need to keep the dogs away from fence. If you think there's any chance they would be able to get out of the fence, then you might need to start using a tie out full time, letting one dog out at a time, which is a pain, but it's better than having a dog get out and attack someone. Hopefully the house your moving into has a privacy fence!

Boundry aggression isn't easy to overcome. I should know because I'm dealing with it in my foster dog. I just started reading the book "Aggression in Dogs" by Brenda Aloff, and it's a book that I would highly recommend for your situation as well.

 

[Barb04]

I did put up a sign because of my dog. Mainly because our meter reader has to come into our yard, and I want him to make sure he checks with me before walking into my yard. But then nearly every house on our block has a "beware of dog" sign somewhere. I think the signs are important.

I was told NOT to use a beware of dog sign because this informs people that you know you have a dog that may attack which will tell your insurance company that you have a dangerous dog.

I was told to USE a "NO TRESPASSING" sign which tells people not to come on your property for any reason.

 

[Renee750il]

Barb, you're right "on point" about the Beware of Dog signs. I've had to work on a couple of dog bite cases and case law here overwhelmingly holds the owners to a higher standard of culpability if they can be shown to be aware that their dogs are "vicious."

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

I think you're getting good advice. Welcome to the boards.

I once saw a meter reader just try and go straight into a yard with the gate locked and a "Beware of dog" sign on the gate. Though it wasn't my yard I was annoyed by it. I think they should knock at the door first and ask if there are any pets in the yard BEFORE going into the yard. I mean, come on. So what if you can't see a dog from where you are? The dog could be out of your sight . It just makes me very angry.

As for signs...we've never had a beware of dog sign up, yet we may put one up just to let people know we have dogs. Our dogs aren't mean, but if there were an intruder they would bark/growl or if necessary bite. We may not have to though, as we've already got a "3 spoiled dogs live here" sign .