Pooping on bed because she is mad?

[Squishy22]

Ok. Another thread about my moms dog. This is very weird and we need help...

She has a 20 pound dog that just recently started pooping on my moms bed. She did yesterday and now today. I just dont get it. Why all the sudden would she start doing this?

Both times she pooped was when my mom left the house for a few hours. I know her dog gets upset when she leaves, so could this cause her to go and poop on the bed? I know most of you are going to say no, because then thats humanizing a dog. A few years ago my parents put her in MY room when visitors came over and she pooped in the middle of my floor. She was pi$$ed when my parents put her in there. She threw a fit and then pooped!

She has a UTI that is clearing up very well. No blood in her urine anymore, so I dont think a UTI would cause this, would it?

Also, it started raining outside pretty bad a couple days ago, and thats when she stopped pooping outside. Could it be because she doesn't want to poop in freezing and wet grass? But that STILL doesn't explain why she exclusively poops on the bed. She wont poop anywhere else in the house except for the bed which makes me think that she really is doing it because she is mad at my mom.

 

[Doberluv]

Dogs don't think that way. You ARE humanizing them to think that she is doing this out of spite. How would she know that we think that is yucky? Dogs pee on each other or in front of each other as a gift. If anything, she's leaving a gift.

In reality, she's most likely stressed and needs to go. Her bowels are sped up a little on account of stress probably. Beds are absorbant and dogs like to go where it is more absorbant.

Yes, the not going outside on account of the rain and cold could also deter her from going outside.

Regardless of the reason, the important thing is to re-train her and try to find out what might be stressing her and work with that. That means not taking your eyes off of her while she's loose in the house, using a crate when you can't supervise her and beefing up the reinforcment when she does go outside...taking her out more often. Try not to feed her right before she's going to be left alone.

 

[Squishy22]

Dogs don't think that way. You ARE humanizing them to think that she is doing this out of spite. How would she know that we think that is yucky? Dogs pee on each other or in front of each other as a gift. If anything, she's leaving a gift.

In reality, she's most likely stressed and needs to go. Her bowels are sped up a little on account of stress probably. Beds are absorbant and dogs like to go where it is more absorbant.

Yes, the not going outside on account of the rain and cold could also deter her from going outside.

Regardless of the reason, the important thing is to re-train her and try to find out what might be stressing her and work with that. That means not taking your eyes off of her while she's loose in the house, using a crate when you can't supervise her and beefing up the reinforcment when she does go outside...taking her out more often. Try not to feed her right before she's going to be left alone.

How would she know that we think its yucky? Well, maybe because we make a fuss out of it when she does. She clearly knows that its very unwanted. You say that its not possible for her to do it out of spite, so I"ll take your word for it. I am sure you know more about dog behavior than I do. Thats why I asked, lol.

The absorbent thing makes sense to me. Thats why dogs like doing their business in the grass and not on the cement.

She is taken for walks many times every day, but just wont go outside. She will pee but not poop. She hasn't had an accident in the house for years. I will have to make sure that the door to my moms room is closed, because she basically sleeps in there the entire time my mother is gone.

Thanks for the advice. It just kind of confused me as to why she would be doing that twice in a row. I feel like an idiot now I know very little about dog behavior.

 

[Doberluv]

What kind of fuss do you make when she does? What do you do? Let's try to narrow things down.

 

[Zoom]

Other than the bed is where your mom's scent is more concentrated, which might be why she picked that spot, I think the pooping is a form of seperation anxiety. My friend's two dachshunds tend to do the same thing...totally fine when other's are around, but will poop on the floor if left alone and unkenneled for even 5 minutes.

She may have even formed her own sort of behavior chain...you leave, she poops, you come back and there is a lot of attention and activity centered near or around her, which is what she wanted. I could very well be wrong, but I could also be right on track.

 

[Doberluv]

I think you've got something there Zoom. It's a stress thing, not a spite thing.

 

[Squishy22]

What kind of fuss do you make when she does? What do you do? Let's try to narrow things down.

My mom mainly does since its her dog and her bed. She shows her the poop and says "Thats a no no! Potty out side!". And then she takes her and makes her scratch on the front door (signaling that she needs to go) and then puts her out to go. She doesn't yell, but does makes sure she uses a stern voice. She doesnt rub her face in her feces which I think is cruel and disgusting. I know a lot of people use that technique, I dont agree with it.

Go ahead and critique away if thats the wrong thing to do or if you have any pointers. We try to make it clear that she needs to go outside to poop and to signal by scratching on the door when she does need to go.

 

[Squishy22]

Other than the bed is where your mom's scent is more concentrated, which might be why she picked that spot, I think the pooping is a form of seperation anxiety. My friend's two dachshunds tend to do the same thing...totally fine when other's are around, but will poop on the floor if left alone and unkenneled for even 5 minutes.

She may have even formed her own sort of behavior chain...you leave, she poops, you come back and there is a lot of attention and activity centered near or around her, which is what she wanted. I could very well be wrong, but I could also be right on track.

Well that makes sense since she always does it when my mom leaves. She hates it when my mother leaves the house.

The second time she did it she ran and hid when my mom found her poop. It was like she was thinkin... "Oops! mommy found my mess and now I'm in trouble!". lol.

 

[Doberluv]

There are a few problems with punishment. First of all, it's coming way after the fact. She has no ability to connect the eliminating with what your mother is doing. To a dog, that is just scary. She has no idea why she's being hollered at. Your mom comes in and frightens the dog. That's all it is to the dog. This punishment is associating your mom or whoever else hollers at her with fear and probably some distrust.

Dogs will appease humans who are overwhelming to them. (even if it's not severe) This is stressing her out more than just the being alone. When your mom found the poo, your dog was not thinking, "Oh no..mommy found the mess, now I'm in trouble." It was likely more like, "Oh no....mommy is here and I'm frightened. I better go hide." Mommy coming home is a predictor of punishment. Mommy's countenance when she sees the poo or expects to see the poo is a predictor of a frightening time.

You say she won't go outside when you take her for walks. If this dog has been punished for going poo in the house, this will cause her to not go to the bathroom while on your walks. When a dog is punished for going inside, she does not think that going to the bathroom inside is "wrong"....morally wrong and yucky to humans. She doesn't understand that we love our carpets and that poo ruins carpets. She has no concept of all that. She's an animal.

She thinks it's scary to go to the bathroom in front of humans. Something is either safe or unsafe to a dog. In the wild, they do things which are determined by either being safe or unsafe. That's how they're wired. They have to be or they wouldn't survive very long. Going to the bathroom equals unsafe if it's in the presence of humans. It is safe if no humans are around because they don't get punished when humans aren't around. That's as far as it goes in their little smooth brains.

Dogs often will hide where they go because going to the bathroom is quite a scary thing....just in case a human walks in the room. (if they've been punished for going to the bathroom)

Again....regain this dog's trust. Stop punishing her or making any kind of fuss over the poo. It's not her fault. It's the humans fault. She's stressing. Crate her when she can't be supervised until she's back on track. Don't leave her loose in the house where she has any opportunity to eliminate inside. She's found out that it works well enough to go inside as long as no humans are present. You need to prevent it and show her where to go, reinforce her lavishly for going outside and keep it up for a long time until you try her in a smaller room for a while.

Do you have a cue word for eliminating? When she does go outside, while she's going, not before, not after, but at the same time, add a cue word, like "go poo" or "go pee". Later, when she's made the association between going and the word, you'll be able to gently remind her before she goes, but for now, use the word while she's going. And the instant she finishes, not 3 seconds later, but the instant she is finished, throw her a party complete with a high value treat and lavish praise. Everytime. It may take her a while to go in front of you now, but don't take your eyes off of her inside. Don't let it happen again inside.

Give her plenty of opportunities outside. Play with her for a while, make it all fun and see if she'll go while she's having a wee of a good time. Maybe she'll forget how scary it might be to go when you're there. But you have to be present in order to reinforce her. You might stand a little ways off but so you can see her if she goes and then hurry and get that piece of chicken to her. It needs to come within 1 or 2 seconds.

I'd get her primed to a marker word so you can mark the behavior and then treat. Look up clicker training if you want to. It's all explained there how to get her to learn what a click or a marker word indicates. http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm

She doesn't know. Dogs are not human and do not think like humans, don't have the same values or morals as we do. They can't understand all about our internal make-up....what we're thinking or stressing over. They know we're stressed, but they don't know why. When a dog is happy and trained, she will not do that, unless she simply can't hold it anymore. Something is out of balance here. But I think you can re-train her and get her back on track. Be patient and take it gradually. Don't put too much pressure on her. Either use a crate or if she's ok in the bathroom, use that. But she may go on the floor which will reiterate to her that it's OK to go in the house, since it works. Remember: dogs do what works. They're not out to get back at you. It's just the way they are....animals with small, unconvoluted brains.

 

[Squishy22]

There are a few problems with punishment. First of all, it's coming way after the fact. She has no ability to connect the eliminating with what your mother is doing. To a dog, that is just scary. She has no idea why she's being hollered at. Your mom comes in and frightens the dog. That's all it is to the dog. This punishment is associating your mom or whoever else hollers at her with fear and probably some distrust.

Dogs will appease humans who are overwhelming to them. (even if it's not severe) This is stressing her out more than just the being alone. When your mom found the poo, your dog was not thinking, "Oh no..mommy found the mess, now I'm in trouble." It was likely more like, "Oh no....mommy is here and I'm frightened. I better go hide." Mommy coming home is a predictor of punishment. Mommy's countenance when she sees the poo or expects to see the poo is a predictor of a frightening time.

You say she won't go outside when you take her for walks. If this dog has been punished for going poo in the house, this will cause her to not go to the bathroom while on your walks. When a dog is punished for going inside, she does not think that going to the bathroom inside is "wrong"....morally wrong and yucky to humans. She doesn't understand that we love our carpets and that poo ruins carpets. She has no concept of all that. She's an animal.

She thinks it's scary to go to the bathroom in front of humans. Something is either safe or unsafe to a dog. In the wild, they do things which are determined by either being safe or unsafe. That's how they're wired. They have to be or they wouldn't survive very long. Going to the bathroom equals unsafe if it's in the presence of humans. It is safe if no humans are around because they don't get punished when humans aren't around. That's as far as it goes in their little smooth brains.

Dogs often will hide where they go because going to the bathroom is quite a scary thing....just in case a human walks in the room. (if they've been punished for going to the bathroom)

Again....regain this dog's trust. Stop punishing her or making any kind of fuss over the poo. It's not her fault. It's the humans fault. She's stressing. Crate her when she can't be supervised until she's back on track. Don't leave her loose in the house where she has any opportunity to eliminate inside. She's found out that it works well enough to go inside as long as no humans are present. You need to prevent it and show her where to go, reinforce her lavishly for going outside and keep it up for a long time until you try her in a smaller room for a while.

Do you have a cue word for eliminating? When she does go outside, while she's going, not before, not after, but at the same time, add a cue word, like "go poo" or "go pee". Later, when she's made the association between going and the word, you'll be able to gently remind her before she goes, but for now, use the word while she's going. And the instant she finishes, not 3 seconds later, but the instant she is finished, throw her a party complete with a high value treat and lavish praise. Everytime. It may take her a while to go in front of you now, but don't take your eyes off of her inside. Don't let it happen again inside.

Give her plenty of opportunities outside. Play with her for a while, make it all fun and see if she'll go while she's having a wee of a good time. Maybe she'll forget how scary it might be to go when you're there. But you have to be present in order to reinforce her. You might stand a little ways off but so you can see her if she goes and then hurry and get that piece of chicken to her. It needs to come within 1 or 2 seconds.

I'd get her primed to a marker word so you can mark the behavior and then treat. Look up clicker training if you want to. It's all explained there how to get her to learn what a click or a marker word indicates. http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm

She doesn't know. Dogs are not human and do not think like humans, don't have the same values or morals as we do. They can't understand all about our internal make-up....what we're thinking or stressing over. They know we're stressed, but they don't know why. When a dog is happy and trained, she will not do that, unless she simply can't hold it anymore. Something is out of balance here. But I think you can re-train her and get her back on track. Be patient and take it gradually. Don't put too much pressure on her. Either use a crate or if she's ok in the bathroom, use that. But she may go on the floor which will reiterate to her that it's OK to go in the house, since it works. Remember: dogs do what works. They're not out to get back at you. It's just the way they are....animals with small, unconvoluted brains.

Ok, this makes sense to me. All I can do is let my mom know the proper way to do it. I told her about crating, and she pretty much refuses to crate her dog, because she thinks its "cruel" to put a dog in there. I use a crate for my dogs and it comes in very handy. Its hard to get through my mothers head sometimes.

This morning my mom found another turd on her bed, and I took a look at. It looks like my chihuahua is now pooping on her bed also. Just lovely! But that shouldnt be a problem, because I believe in crating and WILL do it. MY dog wont be getting the run of the house at all anymore. She will be put in the crate when unsupervised. I wont correct her unless she is caught in the act. You're supposed to correct only when caught in the act, right? I didnt know it was so bad it was to correct after the dead has been done. Thats an eye opener. Never thought about it that way.

The cue for my dog is "go potty". I take her outside and as soon as I say it she finds a spot and goes. She stops what ever she is doing and goes to business. It just takes way longer for her to go poop when its wet out for some reason. As for my moms dog, I dont think she has one. I'll let her know to start using a cue word.

I hope this isnt too confusing, because I am talking about my moms dog AND my dog that has the same problem now.

 

[Doberluv]

You're supposed to correct only when caught in the act, right?

No, you're suppose to correct yourself. LOL! Like I said, punishment can be construed by the dog to mean going to the bathroom is scary...NOT that going to the bathroom inside is "wrong." They may not make that connection. Just that going to the bathroom in front of you is scary. Period. No punishment necessary to teach a dog to only go outside. You prevent accidents inside by supervision and you reinforce immediately when they do go outside. Punishment after the fact is abuse. (inadvertant, though it might be) After 2-3 seconds they're onto something else....not thinking about the prior thing and that is what you're punishing them for. If they're not doing anything, you're just scolding them for no reason to them and it's frightening and bewildering.

Crating a dog that has never been crated might be a little trickier. But it can be done as long as it's done gradually and gently...associated with good things, the dog is fed in there...door left open at first, small increments of time with the door closed with owner near by, then the dog is let out etc...It is not cruel (if handled right) unless the dog is in there for an excessive amount of time. My rule for myself was always no more than 4 hours other than night time and a short time here and there throughout the day. But a lot of people leave them in longer for a stretch. My dogs love their crates and use them voluntarily...their little bedrooms. I leave the door open. That's my Chihuahuas. My Doberman's crate is too huge so I don't keep that inside anymore. He doesn't need it.

If your mom still doesn't like the crate idea, how about the bathroom or laundry room? You could try putting some papers in a corner for her, but she won't learn that going inside is not the toilet. Papers....no papers....it's still inside.

These accidents leave a scent, no matter what you do to clean them. Natures miracle is good, but I don't think it can remove every bit of scent to a dog. Their olfactory abilities are phenomenal. When the dog smells previous accidents, that sends a message to the dog that this IS the toilet. This IS the proper place to go. It's been used as such. That makes it the toilet. Period. Unless accidents are prevented and proper training is implimented, this will continue and the dog will continue to be improperly treated. Anthropormorphizing (placing human values and thought processes onto dogs) to a large degree like that does dogs a grave disservice. It causes stress, fear, disturst, confusion. It teaches them nothing. I hope your Mom can read this thread. And I hope the dog will be happy and well trained one day. It will take longer now that she's been given the opportunity (permission) to go inside than it would had it been handled correctly from the beginning, but it can be done. Best of luck.

 

[Squishy22]

No, you're suppose to correct yourself. LOL! Like I said, punishment can be construed by the dog to mean going to the bathroom is scary...NOT that going to the bathroom inside is "wrong." They may not make that connection. Just that going to the bathroom in front of you is scary. Period. No punishment necessary to teach a dog to only go outside. You prevent accidents inside by supervision and you reinforce immediately when they do go outside. Punishment after the fact is abuse. (inadvertant, though it might be) After 2-3 seconds they're onto something else....not thinking about the prior thing and that is what you're punishing them for. If they're not doing anything, you're just scolding them for no reason to them and it's frightening and bewildering.

Crating a dog that has never been crated might be a little trickier. But it can be done as long as it's done gradually and gently...associated with good things, the dog is fed in there...door left open at first, small increments of time with the door closed with owner near by, then the dog is let out etc...It is not cruel (if handled right) unless the dog is in there for an excessive amount of time. My rule for myself was always no more than 4 hours other than night time and a short time here and there throughout the day. But a lot of people leave them in longer for a stretch. My dogs love their crates and use them voluntarily...their little bedrooms. I leave the door open. That's my Chihuahuas. My Doberman's crate is too huge so I don't keep that inside anymore. He doesn't need it.

If your mom still doesn't like the crate idea, how about the bathroom or laundry room? You could try putting some papers in a corner for her, but she won't learn that going inside is not the toilet. Papers....no papers....it's still inside.

These accidents leave a scent, no matter what you do to clean them. Natures miracle is good, but I don't think it can remove every bit of scent to a dog. Their olfactory abilities are phenomenal. When the dog smells previous accidents, that sends a message to the dog that this IS the toilet. This IS the proper place to go. It's been used as such. That makes it the toilet. Period. Unless accidents are prevented and proper training is implimented, this will continue and the dog will continue to be improperly treated. Anthropormorphizing (placing human values and thought processes onto dogs) to a large degree like that does dogs a grave disservice. It causes stress, fear, disturst, confusion. It teaches them nothing. I hope your Mom can read this thread. And I hope the dog will be happy and well trained one day. It will take longer now that she's been given the opportunity (permission) to go inside than it would had it been handled correctly from the beginning, but it can be done. Best of luck.

Ok, I've got it now, lol. I have a WAY better understanding than before. Thanks very much!! I am sure this will work!

 

[Xerxes]

She thinks it's scary to go to the bathroom in front of humans. Something is either safe or unsafe to a dog. In the wild, they do things which are determined by either being safe or unsafe. That's how they're wired. They have to be or they wouldn't survive very long. Going to the bathroom equals unsafe if it's in the presence of humans. It is safe if no humans are around because they don't get punished when humans aren't around. That's as far as it goes in their little smooth brains.

Dogs often will hide where they go because going to the bathroom is quite a scary thing....just in case a human walks in the room. (if they've been punished for going to the bathroom)

Again....regain this dog's trust. Stop punishing her or making any kind of fuss over the poo. It's not her fault. It's the humans fault. She's stressing. Crate her when she can't be supervised until she's back on track. Don't leave her loose in the house where she has any opportunity to eliminate inside. She's found out that it works well enough to go inside as long as no humans are present. You need to prevent it and show her where to go, reinforce her lavishly for going outside and keep it up for a long time until you try her in a smaller room for a while.

Do you have a cue word for eliminating? When she does go outside, while she's going, not before, not after, but at the same time, add a cue word, like "go poo" or "go pee". Later, when she's made the association between going and the word, you'll be able to gently remind her before she goes, but for now, use the word while she's going. And the instant she finishes, not 3 seconds later, but the instant she is finished, throw her a party complete with a high value treat and lavish praise. Everytime. It may take her a while to go in front of you now, but don't take your eyes off of her inside. Don't let it happen again inside.

Great Post Doberluv! Everything I was going to say-but said in a much better way!

 

[bubbatd]

To me any change in a dog's potty habits are due to stress . ( not applying to young pups ) When I moved here , I almost joined Bubba and IB !!! Life sucked !

 

[Boemy]

The other dog may be pooping on the bed because it smells where the first dog went. I would clean it up using Nature's Miracle, which you can find at places like PetCo or PetSmart.

 

[LB2007]

I beg to differ on this, as I know some dog behaviorists who say that while they dont do it to spite their owners, they definitely do it out of protest of being left alone, in a way, I call this spite. Mine did the very same thing two days ago when I went shoping for longer than 2 hours. He didnt poop on the bed but on my rug where he has never ever done it, and both doors front and back simultaneously. Some dogs get very very mad. Now he didnt do this while I was gone, but long long long after I came back, and he was mad as hell all night til the next day. He had ample walking and running after I returned so it was not lack of being taken out. He just was mad.

My sister's dog used to jump on the table and pee in her cups or fruit bowl if she left him alone for any length of time. Once she was home, he was a happy little camper.

 

[carlar]

I totally agree with Doverluv. I think if you start following that you should soon start to see some improvement. I belive I would start keeping the bedroom doors shut along with kenneling them until they learn the new behavior.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

I beg to differ on this, as I know some dog behaviorists who say that while they dont do it to spite their owners, they definitely do it out of protest of being left alone, in a way, I call this spite. Mine did the very same thing two days ago when I went shoping for longer than 2 hours. He didnt poop on the bed but on my rug where he has never ever done it, and both doors front and back simultaneously. Some dogs get very very mad. Now he didnt do this while I was gone, but long long long after I came back, and he was mad as hell all night til the next day. He had ample walking and running after I returned so it was not lack of being taken out. He just was mad.

My sister's dog used to jump on the table and pee in her cups or fruit bowl if she left him alone for any length of time. Once she was home, he was a happy little camper.

You have a puppy who may not be capable of holding it long enough that is not spite. That is a lack of crate training.

 

[~Jessie~]

You have a puppy who may not be capable of holding it long enough that is not spite. That is a lack of crate training.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Doberluv]

You have a puppy who may not be capable of holding it long enough that is not spite. That is a lack of crate training.

Exactly Mafia Princess. How old is this puppy anyway? If this is a young un-house-broken puppy, why is he loose in the house unsupervised? It can be that and it can be other reasons too.

by Lab2007- I beg to differ on this, as I know some dog behaviorists who say that while they dont do it to spite their owners, they definitely do it out of protest of being left alone, in a way, I call this spite. Mine did the very same thing two days ago when I went shoping for longer than 2 hours. He didnt poop on the bed but on my rug where he has never ever done it, and both doors front and back simultaneously. Some dogs get very very mad. Now he didnt do this while I was gone, but long long long after I came back, and he was mad as hell all night til the next day. He had ample walking and running after I returned so it was not lack of being taken out. He just was mad.

My sister's dog used to jump on the table and pee in her cups or fruit bowl if she left him alone for any length of time. Once she was home, he was a happy little camper.

You can call it whatever you want. People who study animal behavior know that dogs don't have the cognitive ability to logically think through and know all about our value system, that we value our bedspreads and carpets. Or that we don't like pee in our tea. Dogs lick pee. From their point of view, it's all good.

Dogs lived out in the forest and didn't have carpets and bedspreads. They don't know how expensive they are and what a lot of work it is to wash them. They don't know that we find the smell of poo and pee deplorable. It's not to them as far as I know. They don't know that pooing in the house is revolting to us. The only reason dogs get house broken is that they are reinforced for going outside. It works better to go outside and it dosen't work well to go inside. It's not that they're trying to be considerate of us and save us the trouble of running our carpet shampooers.

In order for this to be spite or retaliation for our leaving them alone, they'd have to have a pretty good understanding of those concepts in order to know that they were punishing us for leaving them alone by pooping on the bedspread or carpet. They'd also have to have a good grip on what's going on in our internal make-up....our thought process to know that something like that would irritate us. They'd have to go through a very complex thought process to connect all those dots. Dogs do not have that ability as far as what science tells us. No one knows for certain what is in the minds of dogs and sometimes they do surprising things which make us wonder if maybe they know more than we think. But to attribute something as incredibly complex as a staged, well thought out retaliation which involved pooping and peeing on our valued bed spreads, carpets and our drinking cups for our leaving the dog alone is really stretching it.

Dog behavior is a science. It has been studied, researched. Dogs have been experimented on in controlled studies in highly reputable university behavior departments as well as studied by some of the world's top behaviorists and trainers. Dogs have very small, smoothly covered brains. They're smart but they're not that smart.

Most educated behaviorists would suspect that this dog is stressed by being left alone. As Grammy said, changes in bathroom routine often indicate stress in dogs. Dogs also urinate to mark their possessions and their territory. Insecure dogs will mark a lot to make sure everyone recognizes their "ownership" of things.

When dogs don't have good leadership in their social group, they will mark a lot. Submissive dogs will pee and poo as an appeasement gesture to the other members of the family. It is as if they're saying, "yes, you are better than I am. Here, I'll give you this gift to prove it." Urinating in wild dogs or wolves in front of either of the alpha wolf pair is known to be an appeasement gesture. This instinctual social cue is carried down to domestic dogs.

Anger or "mad" ....retaliation, spite.....is a highly unlikely emotion that this dog is feeling based on what you described him to be doing and the circumstances surrounding this behavior. You are over-anthropomorphizing dogs, a common error made by lack of understanding of canine behavior.