Pet Stores.

[4dogs3cats]

So I was at the mall the other day with my mom and sister in law and niece and my SIL wanted to go into Animal Kingdom to show my niece the puppies.

We got in there, she knows I hate going in there, and she said, "LOOK. You're wrong." And pointed to a sign that said "No mill guarantee."

It then went on to say all their puppies come from hobby breeders or licensed usda something or other breeders.

I tried to educate her that they buy their puppies from a broker, that buys them from the puppy mills, but she wouldn't believe me.

When we walked out of there she said, "But those puppies need homes, whats gonna happen if nobody buys them?"

I said "FIRST of all, what idiot would spend a grand on a FIVE MONTH OLD PUPPY? Those puppies have lived behind glass or in cages for 5 months of their lives. Why WOULDNT you just go get one out of the paper at that point? Second of all, every single puppy in that store looked sick." To which my mom replied, "yeah they really did. They dont look lively like puppies are supposed to and their eyes looked sad."

I guess this is just really a rant in general. But I have a MUCH harder time explaining to people why they shouldn't buy from a BYB than from a pet store. Honestly, for a MIXED breed puppy at my humane society, it's now $160.00

Adoption Information - The Arizona Humane Society Online

Kody, a pure bred beagle from someone's backyard with a KNOWN history and MEETING his mom, was $200.00.... I just.. I dunno... ugh.

 

[Renee750il]

Many mills, I believe, are USDA licensed

But hey, you get dragged in there, speak loudly enough that others can overhear, use rational argument, move on to the conditions these animals are bred in, the lack of health testing, temperament proving, all the variables, how you can buy from a reputable, careful breeder with a guarantee for the same or less than a pet store charges, or go to a breed rescue for less, knowing that you're making a difference, and even if your companion doesn't believe you, maybe someone overhearing you will, or will at least stop and think.

Or you'll get thrown out of the store and your companion will be too embarrassed to ever go back

 

[4dogs3cats]

Many mills, I believe, are USDA licensed

And that's what I told her. I told her it was a loophole. Plus why would you want a 5 month old dog thats already out of cute puppy stage for that kind of money. For 1,000 I can EASILY find someone a reputable breeder that health tests and you'd get a much younger puppy that has actually set foot on the floor before.

I just can't stand pet stores. And to think when I was 16 I was all "I cant wait till I'm old enough to work at the pet store in the mall!!"(you hafta be 18.)

I got a job at the animal hospital instead

 

[-bogart-]

Many mills, I believe, are USDA licensed

this .

how do you go about changing USDA regs? i think that is the way to go in handling the mill problem.

i have been thinking about this a bit , and is the problem that the regs consider dogs to be livestock? i dont know i have some more learning to do.

does anyone know a good site ot look at to start?

 

[4dogs3cats]

this .

how do you go about changing USDA regs? i think that is the way to go in handling the mill problem.

i have been thinking about this a bit , and is the problem that the regs consider dogs to be livestock? i dont know i have some more learning to do.

does anyone know a good site ot look at to start?

I really think that while education is important, nobody is going to change the minds of enough people to make a dent in these mills.

Hitting the mills directly is what's going to stop things.

Ideally, and I may get flamed for this, but IDEALLY, there should be NO mills, NO rescues, NO shelters. There should be reputable breeders that sell quality dogs for show or work or whatever. And IF there were no mills and no shelters, I really would see no issue with BYB's.

 

[Renee750il]

Ideally, there wouldn't be a NEED for shelters and rescues, and closing down the mills would go a long way toward that.

The only way to close down the mills is to make them unprofitable.

Or go the ARista route, which is unthinkable.

 

[4dogs3cats]

Ideally, there wouldn't be a NEED for shelters and rescues, and closing down the mills would go a long way toward that.

The only way to close down the mills is to make them unprofitable.

Or go the ARista route, which is unthinkable.

Oh yeah def not the AR way. thats ridonkulous. I just think if we REALLY want to make a change, we need to stop telling people not to buy from them. People are going to buy from them no matter what we say. I know I personally have stopped maybe 3 people from buying in a pet store, but theres plenty whos minds are made up.

How can we hit the Mills directly? Thats what needs to be figured out. i was part of a huge puppy mill bust back in the summer of 08. We took in 27 beagles and beagle/JRT mixes. I watched a 5 week old puppy suffer from mange, and then die of pneumonia. THOSE evil people are the ones that need to suffer.

 

[elegy]

The only way to close down the mills is to make them unprofitable.

that's really it.

even with the laws that are on the books, they're not enforced. and when they are enforced it's a slap on the wrist, if that. kennel inspection reports are now available online and make for interesting reading if you're in the mood to make yourself insane.

 

[Beanie]

Yeah, if a place is producing enough puppies that it can be USDA certified, it's pretty much a mill operation. Class B is usually the one you see.

People always make that argument... "but the store owner said they're NOT from mills!" Of COURSE they said that, you idiot! What business person in their right mind is going to tell you the exact thing that will make you walk out the door and not give them your money?! "Oh, yeah, we get 'em from mills. Mom has lived her whole life in a tiny cage poppin' out puppies every heat cycle." THAT is sure to make you buy the puppy, right? Hello! Has anybody else seen all of those Carfax commercials about people cleverly writing ads to disguise the damage that occurred to their cars? If it's going to hurt the sale, they'll LIE! Duh!
*head desk*


The problem with mills is, honestly, the regulations already in place are not so bad that they are terribly ineffective - it's just they are not enforced. =/ Or it's "oh, you have all these violations! Fix them when we come back." Then the problems are "fixed" and all is hunky dory... until next time. That's a big problem, too.

 

[Renee750il]

Elegy's right about the laws, and the last thing we need are more unenforceable laws, especially ones that will also target legitimate breeding and weaken the rights of pet owners.

 

[4dogs3cats]

I just know that it's a neverending cycle. More people grow up, and wanna get dogs from puppy stores. We educate them, and SOME of them stop. Then THEY have kids. then THOSE kids want puppies from pet stores.

It's never going to end unless we go directly to the source. Which unfortunately, that's not an option either.

It it just hopeless?

 

[Erica1989]

Education is key. Like the first responder said - make a scene. Educate people while you're there.
Let them know that that $1000 puppy was purchased from a puppy broker, for $99. Who's making the profit now? And before that - that puppy was purchased from a mill. (yes, puppies over 3 months old are purchasable from the broker for $99).
I went 'undercover' in a pet store and learned quite a bit more about the inside that I didn't know before. I've assisted in shutting down a puppy mill here in FL -took over 100 dogs - we got the dogs, finally, and the miller got a slap on the wrist - after close to 2 years in court.

 

[Sapphire-Light]

People always make that argument... "but the store owner said they're NOT from mills!" Of COURSE they said that, you idiot! What business person in their right mind is going to tell you the exact thing that will make you walk out the door and not give them your money?! "Oh, yeah, we get 'em from mills. Mom has lived her whole life in a tiny cage poppin' out puppies every heat cycle." THAT is sure to make you buy the puppy, right? Hello! Has anybody else seen all of those Carfax commercials about people cleverly writing ads to disguise the damage that occurred to their cars? If it's going to hurt the sale, they'll LIE! Duh!
*head desk*

.

Agree, I had seen many pet shop adds with "show quality puppies from the best lines, AKC ch. pedigree, we breed our own pups" when my country is in FCI territory, so why
they don't have an FCI pedigree? the answer is easy they are imported from mills from the usa.

I just can't stand pet stores. And to think when I was 16 I was all "I cant wait till I'm old enough to work at the pet store in the mall!!"(you hafta be 18.)

I got a job at the animal hospital instead

This remind me a couple of years ago a person told me "you like animals a lot, so.. why don't you place a pet shop and you are going to be surrounded by puppies and kittens all the time" :yikes:

I was shocked by the comment and couldn't answer something at the moment, but if someone tell me that again I will reply "yes I do love animals, that IS WHY I can't own a pet shop that sells animals"

 

[Bailey08]

It's really rather scary that they know all of the right things to say now, too.

I work for someone who bought not 1, but 2 teacup puppies recently, from 2 different stores. I tried to gently educate, but, honestly, she has a lot going on in her life right now and she wasn't able to "hear" it. The first one went back to the "breeder" when it was diagnosed with a genetic condition (I'm assuming she was euthanized). Both were at the e-vet for several days after they were "adopted" and were generally sickly, though thankfully the second seems to be doing better. (She's still under a pound and apparently "can't" walk outside of the home so is generally carried.)

The website for the first store made me want to throw up. Especially as I can see how it can trick people into thinking they're not supporting a mill.

 

[skittledoo]

Most people from the Northern VA area have heard about Dreamy Puppy... it's a store in Chantilly, VA that sells pretty much nothing BUT puppies... you walk in and the entire back wall is lined up with glass cages filled with puppies with no water, and really dirty cages. I got kicked out of there the first time I ever went inside, mainly because I went there with the intent of swaying customers AWAY from the store and they got mad at me for talking to customers about puppy mills. One guy went to grab one of the puppies for a customer. He opened up a door that led him behind the cages where he could open one of the cages to get the pup. When he opened the main door I could see what was behind it and it basically looks like a big garage or small warehouse behind there that's filled with cages upon cages of crying puppies. Makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm not sure if the place has since closed down... maybe someone from the Northern VA area might be able to answer that... but... it just made me sick to my stomach that stores sell mill puppies and it breaks my heart that people will STILL purchase them even if they HAVE been educated against doing so

 

[Lolas Dad]

Puppy Mill Awareness day

Puppy Mill Awareness Day - Awareness Day is the home for information pertaining to puppymills, pet stores and the movement to end such horrible facilities

National and international events for Puppy Mill Awareness Day

Puppy Mill Awareness Day

USDA searchable inspection records APHIS - ANIMAL CARE - INSPECTION SEARCH - WARNING

The largest broker supplying puppies from puppy mills to pet stores. Located in the puppy mill capitol of the US Missouri. Not only do they pick up the puppies from the mills but they also have millers dropping puppies off

The Hunte Corporation - Where Puppies Come First

Pet shop laws by state. These are good to know so that if you go into a pet shop you can see if they are following the required state laws.

Pet Shop Laws

Another similar site to the above site but more in depth.

PetStoreAbuse.com - Pet Store Laws

 

[Fran101]

I feel your pain

Petstores, ive managed to convince people to stay away from. Puppy mills, brokers.. most people get it. you DONT know where that puppy is coming from, what its parents look like.. and you could very well end up with an unhealthy ugly dog.

but BYBs.. oh forget it. Its hard to really say anything that makes it clear.
They aren't puppy mills, most of the time around here the pups are well cared for, the owners love the dogs, the parents are healthy... to most people, that is all that matters and they certainly don't see the harm.
the prices are also usually less than most

I try to push good breeders or rescues but its hard. high prices, applications, interview, waiting... waiting.. it just takes too long and is too hard for most people. especially when it comes to good breeders
they dont want to hear about waiting lists or "next litter". they want a puppy NOW, or in less than a month usually.

so I mention shelters. but almost everybody in miami has had a bad experience with the shelter. lots and LOTS of sick dogs get adopted out.. and word spreads like wildfire. people dont want sick dogs/puppies that are gonna die.

its a pain.

I refuse to go into petstores. everyone that knows me knows this. I end up holding my credit card and an inch away from doing something I WILL regret or verbally abusing those who work at the store lol