parvo?

joce

Active Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
4,448
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
40
Location
Ohio
#1
the puppies got there first set of shots last Tuesday. We made sure they didn't touch the ground and they have not gone anywhere else.(foster dog my cousin had had pups they are seven weeks old now,theres a thread somewhere with pics and info)
My cousin gave them all a bath last Saturday night and she said they all just seemed stressed and a couple had diarrhea and some licquidy poop.

So one still wasn't eating good and they took it to the vet this morning and the vet said it tested positive for parvo. So now we have to see what the rescue wants to do. I said I'd pay for that pup if the rescue wouldn't but the person supposed to get him said they would too so hes got the money part covered.

But the vet didn't say a thing about testing the other pups. I guess she acted like it was no big deal and just told them that everything needs bleached and the virus lives forever. Apparently she said it was a light positive to.Whats that mean exactly?

So from my reading today online he could be positive just from the vaccine? Or he could be so sick the virus shows a light positive?

Anyway that was long but send good puppy thoughts to them. they are all so sweet and I just want them to all be healthy. Anyone have such a young pup go through it?
 

Buddy'sParents

*Finding My Inner Fila*
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
25,377
Likes
0
Points
36
#2
There is such a thing as a false positive, but if he is exhibiting signs of the illness, it's doubtful that it is a false negative. Buddy was three months when we went through it... I hope the pup has the fight in him to handle it. :) Good luck.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

Guest
#3
Expect all the other puppies to break with Parvo over the next 7 days. I would be IMMEDIATELY treating them all with Parvaid at minimum, and observing them carefully. First signs are generally high fever, lethargy, and lack of appetite.

Prompt treatment is imperitive, and many puppies still won't survive. I'm so sorry to hear.....

Here is a website that could be very helpful....

http://www.parvobuster.com
 

Saintgirl

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
941
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
47
#4
I am so sorry to hear this. I second what Red said, the other pups need to start treatment ASAP.
 

joce

Active Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
4,448
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
40
Location
Ohio
#6
Does the parvaid stuff actually work? I have heard its all a gimmick. Whats in it that actually helps? Ugh!
 

Zoom

Twin 2.0
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
40,739
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
41
Location
Denver, CO
#7
According to Smkie, who has nursed a number of pups through it, Sub-Q fluids and absolute rest seems to help most pups pull through, especially if caught early enough.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
4,107
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
California
#8
When we had dachshund puppies here, 3 of them (Out of 6 ) got parvo (They were only about 6-7 weeks old, and had their first set of shots too). Two recovered pretty quickly from it, but Bob got the worst of it, and almost died. He had to stay at the E-vet for 10 days getting treatment..and took a long time to recover. He didn't fully recover for several weeks. Hes now 2 years old and very healthy. (IT was very expensive to treat them! Bob alone was $7,000. And altogether treatment for the 3 of them was around $10,000. Its not an easy thing to get over!
 

ACooper

Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
27,772
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
IN
#9
According to Smkie, who has nursed a number of pups through it, Sub-Q fluids and absolute rest seems to help most pups pull through, especially if caught early enough.
That is basically what happened with the pup my brother in law rescued. The pup had to stay at the vet to be able to "rest" for at least 10 days (he and my sister both work and couldn't be home), and they had the pup on an IV for fluids for quite a few of those days.

I wish you all the best and hope the pups all come through it with flying colors.
 

Lilavati

Arbitrary and Capricious
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
7,644
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
47
Location
Alexandria, VA
#10
Treat it, treat it now, treat them all. We lost an entire litter of puppies that way . . . several of them died in my arms. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
 

smkie

pointer/labrador/terrier
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
55,184
Likes
35
Points
48
#11
IF the puppies are exposed to parvo when they have stopped nursing before the vaccine the vaccine will make no difference. Many people do not realize that if they give the shot WHILE the pup is nursing the mother's milk will negate the shot. THey have to have the parvo vaccine and a booster or a series of boosters to insure that they are protected.Treating quickly is the key to survival. There are many new treatments now that were not around when i had experience with this. WE used sub q fluids to keep them hydrated, i would put the puppy against my skin afterwards to help warm up the fluid for it made them so very cold. We also gave a stomach pill to help with the spasms, i have heard that there is something like tamiflu now (is that the parvaid?) that is making a big difference. I am sorry your pups are going through this, it is an evil virus. Make sure you bleach down everything that is has soil or blood, and the bottoms of your shoes to make sure you don't carry it to other areas where dogs can get infected. THe good news is that with treatment the pups do bounce back quicky when the virus has passed and can have a full recovery.

I could tell when a pup had parvo early by the way they turned their heads away from food and water like the thought of it sickened them, and the way they held their little tummies away from the floor, it must hurt so bad. They look like this even before that first rank bowel movement passes through. It has the smell of rotten blood. The eyes have a certain look too. I sure hope you can get help. ((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))) no baby should have to go through something like this.:(:(:(
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
68
Likes
0
Points
0
#12
I wish you luck, I know what its like, a dog at my shelter came in with a puppy with parvo, but it was in the later stages unfortunatley.
She seemed sad, rejected her food and had a high fever, and diarrhea liquid stools that stunk of blood or rotting.I got the shelter's vet but she went into shock and unfortunalty passed away.I was too late, hopefully you spotted early signs.Even if you did, recovered parvo puppies are ussually weaker and more un-healthy for life, but thats not always the case.
Praying its a false negative for you!
 

smkie

pointer/labrador/terrier
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
55,184
Likes
35
Points
48
#13
No it is not always the case, in fact i have seen the opposite. The dogs that i nursed through that recovered grew up to be healthy strong dogs. I think if there is an immune problem with some dogs that might more be the case of bad breeding ie..puppymills.
 

joce

Active Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
4,448
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
40
Location
Ohio
#14
Well good and bad news.

We took the rest of the pups in this morning and everyone was started on fluids.

Good news is whitey who went in yesterday is doing great. If he keeps all his food down today he comes home tomorrow. He was wagging his whole body and was soo happy to see us. I haven't seen him like that ever-he is usually so calm and laid back.

the vets questioning if its parvo they have and said it could be coccidiya(I think thats what she said, gastrosomething or any other number of things. She said if it is parvo its a "light" case and they should all be fine with the fluids.

So everyone is at the vet but they also are not horribly sick and hopefully they will all be ok and home by this weekend.

Everythings been bleached a million times but I am a wreck after this. How the hell do millers and bybs keep this stuff away. there is a german shepherd"farm" a mile or two down the street with puppies everywhere and we are the ones who might have it:confused:

So if we ever do foster pups again they are only pottying on a concrete slab and it'll be bleached before and after going out. And never to the vet again-I have no problem giving the shots and we were soo careful not letting them touch anything. Even people looking at the pups could have brought it in but we warned everyone to be clean and not touch petstore dogs or anything before coming over. And part of the pre coming out interview was have you had a dog die in the last year of anything questionable. This is impossible! We knew about the window of susseptability and were even more careful the last couple of weeks.

So hopefully everyone will be ok. the vet said if they were healthy to begin with they usually will be after parvo. the only difference is if its a bad case they may be prone to diarrhea since the inner lining of the intestines were disturbed. I think most cases are puppymills or byb puppies were they would have been sick during their life anyway. thanks so much for listening guys!
 

sheepjoke

New Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Midwest
#15
length of nursing has little to no effect on length of maternal antibodies. It is colostrum that has the antibodies and that is only the first, what....24-48 hours after birth. Those antibodies are what lasts for...8-12 weeks, so nursing time has no effect on antibodies. dehydration is hte cause of parvo death so one must learn to do subq fluids and if necessary get iv fluids.



sheepjoke
 

smkie

pointer/labrador/terrier
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
55,184
Likes
35
Points
48
#16
i am so glad they are not as sick as they could be. Fingers crossed for a complete recovery. Sheepjoke i can only go by what my vet told me.
 

joce

Active Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
4,448
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
40
Location
Ohio
#17
Vet told us its not just colostrum but how long they nurse-I'm guessing the moms antibodies are in the milk-no clue really:confused:

Whitey is ready to come home but everyone else will be coming home tomorrow as well so were just going to bring them all at once:D I've been so worried but thank god they are all ok!!!
 

smkie

pointer/labrador/terrier
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
55,184
Likes
35
Points
48
#18
that is what i was told...as long as they are nursing the shot will not be a hundred percent and they will require a booster. I followed that without fail and none of my dogs have taken ill. Does anyone know if the parvoaid is related to tamiflu? Just curious. I am so glad for your puppies. IF i don't see another baby with parvo i would be the happiest in the world. It just breaks my heart.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

Guest
#19
Parvo virus first seeks out and settles in the lymph nodes, where it spends several days replicating. Once there is enough of it, it migrates to the fastest dividing cells in the body, the bone marrow. There it does a number on the bone marrow, rapidly depleting the white blood cell count and the puppy's immune system.

After it trashes the bone marrow, it then seeks out more fast dividing cells, which happen to be the epithelium of the gastro intestinal tract. It rapidly destroys the intestinal lining which opens up many pathways into the blood stream for sepsis.

Many puppies do die of dehydration, but the crushed immune system and the total body sepsis is what kills most puppies.

This is an evil horrid disease, and we can thank modern vaccinations for it, since it originated from a mutation of the feline panleukopenia vaccine in the mid 1970s.

Despite all precautions, and even with careful timely vaccination, puppies all still endure a window of opportunity during which they are vulnerable to infection. Add to that the the Parvo virus is not a fat encapsulated virus. This makes it incredibly hardy in the environment. Parvo virus is called a "ubiquitus virus" meaning it is virtually everywhere in the environment and impossible to avoid unless puppies are kept on a disinfected surface and all shoes coming inside are also disinfected.

I am so glad to hear yours are going to be ok.
 

Nightmare

New Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
1
Likes
0
Points
0
#20
I have been lurking on these forums for a while and joined just to reply to this post. I have, sadly, pretty extensive experience with parvo, and would like to share what I've learned. This will be a long post.

Testing: previous vaccination can cause false positives. The Idexx snap test generally does not show a false positive, but can show a false negative if the pup has been sick for more than a couple of days. Pups will start shedding virus several days before showing symptoms, and usually only shed virus for a couple of days past that point. Pups can shed virus in the stool for around three weeks, though it's usually much shorter.

Maternal antibodies: Mom produces colostrum, which contains antibodies, when the pups are born. Pups are only capable of absorbing these antibodies during the first twenty-four hours of life (there is not a general consensus on this. It could be a shorter time period.) How long the MAs last is dependent on how much immunity mom has to pass on and how well the puppy nursed during the first day of life. You can check the titer of mom, either right after or right before birth, and tell approximately when a vaccine will 'take' for the pups. MAs drop by approximately half for each week of the pups life. There is a period where there is enough MA to interfere with a vaccine, but not enough to protect the pup from illness; this is why we do multiple vaccines. So, in short, duration of nursing has nothing to do with when the MA will wane enough for a pup to get sick. Many breeders supplement their pups with fresh frozen plasma, available from Hemopet, at birth to make sure they get plenty of antibodies; the catch with this is that such pups will have MAs for longer, meaning it will take longer for vaccination to produce protection.

Vaccination: Reasons vaccines fail: too early (MA kills the vaccine), improper storage, overwhelming challenge dose. Yes, it is possible for a pup to be exposed to so much virus that it overwhelms the immunity provoked by vaccination. It is possible to tell if a pup has seroconverted (formed antibodies to the virus) by doing a titer test around two weeks after vaccination if you are concerned about giving too many vaccines. 95% of pups vaccinated after the age of twelve weeks will successfully seroconvert, the other 5% will not no matter how many vaccines they are given. That doesn't guarantee that non-responders will get sick, though. Vaccines containing the 2b virus are cross-protective against all strains. There is a new strain, 2c, which can be carried by cats and is present iin the United States. Single antigen vaccines work better than multi-valent vaccines, because the former contains more antigen of a single disease than the latter, making a single antigen vaccine more likely to break through MA.

Treatment: I have used both Parvaid, which is an herbal medication, and Tamiflu, which is a prescription human flu medication, successfully. By far my first choice is Tamiflu. For small pups the suspension (liquid) form can be used, for large pups the capsules can be put into suspension. Tamiflu is, in the long run, cheaper than Parvaid, which I feel is grossly overpriced, and it works much, much faster. Tamiflu suspension is about $46, ten 75 mg capsules about $100. Dosage is 1 mg per pound, 2 mg if the vomiting does not stop after one dose. The catch is the Tamiflu works best if administered within the first twenty-four hours, which is useful for the second pup that gets sick but not so much for the first one unless it is caught and tested early. Tamiflu can be used to keep other exposed pups from getting sick. It is administered twice a day to treat a sick pup, once a day for prevention. Parvo basically kills the host pups immunity, and the gastroenteritis is caused by overgrowth of bacteria. Tamiflu stops the bacterial process. Parvaid does work, quite well, however it is not only very expensive (you will need at least two bottles to treat a litter of pups, more if they are big pups,) but it is labor intensive, as you must administer it every hour until the pup stops vomiting. I have had some pups react to the alcohol in the tincture by vomiting, so it helps to sweeten it with honey before giving it.

Disinfection: Parvo lives for about a month indoors. It likes moist, dark areas. Sunlight will kill it. One half cup (four ounces) of household bleach to a gallon of water will kill it. Trifectant (brand name) will kill it, and works better in the presence of dirt and other organic material than bleach. Both work best if you saturate the area and let it sit for a while. Scrubbing the area works even better. Parvo can persist for months outdoors if no disinfection is done. Parvo is also considered endemic in the environment in the US, meaning it's assumed to be there if no disinfection has been done.

Transmission: Parvo can be carried on shoes, in blowing dirt, by birds and flies, or directly transmitted via vomit or feces. It only takes a tiny, tiny bit to cause illness. Bleach baths for shoes do not work, booties or changing shoes are a better choice, spraying shoes with Trifectant, then scrubbing and spraying again may work.

Links:
Parvaid:
Using Tamiflu for parvo
Disinfecting

My recommendation for people who have pups in a high risk area is to connect with your vet and discuss treatment and early diagnosis before hand. If I were a breeder or rescuer in a high risk area I would keep Idexx snap tests (around $90 for five) and Tamiflu capsules on hand. It's a small investment compared to the cost of treatment for a very sick pup, or worse, losing the pup. If a pup tests positive, Tamiflu can than be started immediately.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top