Palin wants to shoot wolves?

[maple]

Here's an interesting study about wolves and their choice of food preferences....sort of debunks the claim that they are decimating herds.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/09/080903-wolves-salmon.html

 

[puppydog]

The people who get eaten by animals... DESERVED it. LOL I can nearly guarantee you they did something extra special stupid.

Please do me a favour and tell that to my friend Achmat.

‘I drew shark to save my brother’

By Melanie Gosling

Cape Town – Achmat Hassiem, the Cape Town lifeguard whose foot was bitten off by a shark on Sunday, deliberately attracted the shark towards himself in order to save his younger brother Taariq.

Speaking from his hospital bed yesterday Hassiem, 24, said when he and Taariq, 17, were in the water at Sunrise Beach, Muizenberg, doing a lifeguard training exercise, he had seen the fin of the shark slicing through the water towards his brother.

“It was going for my brother. I shouted: ‘Taariq! Shark!’ and then started splashing about in the water so that I would attract the shark to me. The shark turned around and came towards me. It grabbed my ankle and shook me, then pulled me under water. I thought the game was over.

“But as I went down I told myself: ‘No, you’re not going to die now,’ and I started kicking it. It had my right leg and I kicked at its head with my left leg.

“I don’t know how many times I kicked it, maybe four times. But I needed to get breath, I could feel I had already taken in seawater. And then it let go. As I came up I saw my brother’s hand in the water and grabbed it.

“I looked back and saw the shark coming towards me for a second time, but the guys in the boat pulled me in before he got to me. They saved my life,†Hassiem said.

He was rushed to shore and airlifted to hospital, where he underwent emergency surgery on his leg. He is out of intensive care but will have further surgery today.

“I don’t know how to describe what it was like. You don’t feel pain. It had my leg in its mouth but I didn’t feel pain. It was just . . . just this brute power, this massive brute force against me, against nothing.â€

Hassiem is putting on a brave face, and already talks about going back to being a lifeguard, but he knows it will be hard to train again, having to learn to swim without his foot. “I want to go back. I’m being as brave as I can. But I struggle to sleep. Every time I close my eyes I see it all again, every detail.â€

He has not had trauma counselling, but found himself doing the comforting for family and friends yesterday.


http://www.theherald.co.za/herald/news/n06_15082006.htm

This is him now.
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/2oTsgY-EHND/Paralympics+Day+2+Swimming/5uKZWLB9Kl8/Achmat+Hassiem

He is a total hero!

 

[Puckstop31]

He is indeed a Hero.

But, AFAIK, it is well known that there are a lot of sharks in the water off the coast of SA. They went into the sharks domain... Not stupid I guess, but they had to know what the possibilities were.

Just sayin'

 

[Laurelin]

I've not researched into the Alaska proposal, but I have read into the opening of wolf hunting in Wyoming since we went there last summer. I need to read more about Alaska. I'd have to read the legislation itself to get a real feel for it. I'm a big wolf lover, and the knee jerk reaction is to be angry and oppose this, but I did the same with the opening of wolf hunting in Wyoming and then actually read the specifics of the law and saw it was going to be very well managed and it was for population control. Aerial hunting sounds bad, I agree, but I can't find anything saying it's for your average Joe.

There's a couple comments I have in general- wolves rarely ever hunt moose. I know they're trying to pinpoint the declining moose populations in Wyoming/Montana on the reintroduction of wolves, but they failed. Wolves just don't kill enough moose. Now they're thinking it is actually to do with elk eating all the willows where the moose live.

The big wildlife debate though, is the national elk refuge....

 

[puppydog]

He is indeed a Hero.

But, AFAIK, it is well known that there are a lot of sharks in the water off the coast of SA. They went into the sharks domain... Not stupid I guess, but they had to know what the possibilities were.

Just sayin'

We can't and don't live our lives in fear. We are very aware of the sharks here. He did nothing stupid entering the water. In fact, you are more stupid walking down the street then swimming in our oceans. You are FAR more likely to be hit by a car.
Chairs killed more people last year then sharks did.

I am just saying that you don't have to be stupid to be eaten by an animal. It is the order of things. Sharks are a far more superior predator to humans. Ask Achmat!

 

[Renee750il]

Well, I STILL think they should leave the wolves alone and have an open season on the politicians.

I'm just sayin' . . . .

 

[Dizzy]

Let's shoot em all.

And eat em.

And wear their heads as necklaces. And make wolf tail soup. And stuff them and let small children ride them.

"Ride the stuffed wolf - taste like chicken!!"

 

[Dizzy]

Another happy customer.

 

[Lilavati]

I've not researched into the Alaska proposal, but I have read into the opening of wolf hunting in Wyoming since we went there last summer. I need to read more about Alaska. I'd have to read the legislation itself to get a real feel for it. I'm a big wolf lover, and the knee jerk reaction is to be angry and oppose this, but I did the same with the opening of wolf hunting in Wyoming and then actually read the specifics of the law and saw it was going to be very well managed and it was for population control. Aerial hunting sounds bad, I agree, but I can't find anything saying it's for your average Joe.

There's a couple comments I have in general- wolves rarely ever hunt moose. I know they're trying to pinpoint the declining moose populations in Wyoming/Montana on the reintroduction of wolves, but they failed. Wolves just don't kill enough moose. Now they're thinking it is actually to do with elk eating all the willows where the moose live.

The big wildlife debate though, is the national elk refuge....

I linked an article somewhere about this. Arial hunting is appalling, but that aside, read the part about the bounty. That was NOT aimed at pros.

Edit: I wonder that if the problem is the elk eating the willows, then perhaps shooting wolves is making the situation worse. Salmon aside, I remember reading that wolves almost never hunt moose . . . but I suspect they can, and do, hunt elk.

Second Edit: I grew up around hunters. I have no issue with hunting. Hunting hoofed animals for food and hides, even limited hunting of preditors. But shooting animals from the air is so deeply against my sense of ethics, against the ethics of hunting and sportsmanship. It should only be used in an emergency, perhaps if there were animals carrying a disease or a true population crisis. And this doesn't sound like an emergency . . . it sounds like people tampering with the herds, then killing wolves out of some belief that they are competition. I find that offensive, and arrogant, and quite possibly drawing not only from ignorance, but from a profound desire to, well, shoot things for the he!! of it, to "prove" something.

 

[release the hounds]

Hunters always complain there isn't enough game to shoot. I am a hunter, i've done my shair of bitchin, usually because I wasn't able to get a deer during the gun season. I do it just to make me feel better, but I know it isn't true. Can't say the same for the rest of the people I know though, they honestly think there aren't enough deer around here.

They tend to forget everyone knows somebody that hits and kills deer with their cars every single year because they are out everywhere. They also tend to forget that a few hundred thousand are taken every year during the short season, but that doesn't include the thousand of "farm" tags they give out either. Nothing is more funny listening to hunters complain that there aren't enough deer when they have 6 in the 3 freezers from farm tags they filled earlier that year.

I live in WI and every year hunters complain that the herd is too small and the DNR is just giving out so many permits to make insurance companies happy. I have no idea what the deal is with the moose and elk pop in AK, but I bet it's not much different. When you cut out natural predators and have gov't programs in place to help the herds make it thru winter, you tend to get overpopulation, not a decimated herd.

Either way, hunting thru the air is pretty unethical to me. I can't believe more hunters don't have a real problem with this.

 

[Lilavati]

Either way, hunting thru the air is pretty unethical to me. I can't believe more hunters don't have a real problem with this.

One, I think many hunters do, but they are afraid that if they attack this practice it will be seen as an attack on hunting in general . . . which is actually a mistake . . . they should speak out and show the public that ethical hunters oppose this sort of unsportsmanlike cruelty and unscientific "wildlife management."

Two, I'm afraid not all hunters are like you, or like the people I know. I was talking to a coworker, who also happens to hunt and owns property. Last year, he found 6 dead young does on his property during deer season, two of them still in spots. Shot and left as trash on his land. He was furious . . . both that people were tresspassing to hunt on his property without permission, but even more so that they were killing young animals and then leaving them to rot. Hunting does is now legal in the area, but that's no excuse to kill them purely for sport. Unfortunately, there are too many people who call themselves "hunters" who are just yahoos with guns who feel they need to prove something . . . and these are often exactly the sort of people who swoon at the idea of killing wolves and bears . . . much more macho. Note, I'm not saying this aobut everyone interested in hunting, say, bear, but these people are certainly attracted to it.

 

[SharkyX]

the population control is because Alaskans like to hunt moose and carribou, (very few hunt them for food anymore its mostly trophy hunting...)
but the problem is, their numbers, like the wolves are also slowly declining thanks to development and human encroachment and HUMANS hunting...

now theyve decided that theres not enough carribou or moose to keep the human hunters happy, so there CULLING the natural preadators of the area to make sure people have plenty of antlers to mount on their wall.

Do you happen to have anything that supports these claims?

I know a number of people who live outside the cities who hunt because otherwise they cannot afford that much in the way of food.

 

[FoxyWench]

unfortunatly i dont keep links...just not a habit i keep but ill look it up.

i have no problem with folks hunting for meat...
but majority of the folks that are pro the arial hunting are NOT those folks.

as i said, id understand if there was a serious population crisies for any of these species (ie wolf numbers rising drastically while elk ect numbers drop DUE to the wolves...)
but there simply not.

ill definatly try and find the links and such.

personally i do have a problem with any SPORT hunting. population control and food i will not lecture about because i too eat meat (and will be the first to admit dont have the balls to actually shoot it myself)
but this...this is simply fish in a barrel style shooting...

 

[Boemy]

I heard that Palin wanted some Fish & Wildlife documents kept secret . . . is that true?

She might be genuinely interested in wildlife management but it's equally likely that, like Idaho governor Butch Otter, she just hates wolves. (Butch Otter wanted to kill off all wolves except the exact amount needed to keep them off the endangered species list. Obviously this is a stupid plan because then when just one wolf gets hit by a car or kicked to death by an elk, they will be right back to being an endangered species. Duuur.)

I just saw an ad where McCain-Palin talked about Obama's lawyers while showing images of wolves . . . I am neither amused nor impressed.

Edit: To be clear, it wasn't talking about wolf hunting, it was trying to compare Obama's people to ZOMG scary wolves.

 

[Lilavati]

I heard that Palin wanted some Fish & Wildlife documents kept secret . . . is that true?

She might be genuinely interested in wildlife management but it's equally likely that, like Idaho governor Butch Otter, she just hates wolves. (Butch Otter wanted to kill off all wolves except the exact amount needed to keep them off the endangered species list. Obviously this is a stupid plan because then when just one wolf gets hit by a car or kicked to death by an elk, they will be right back to being an endangered species. Duuur.)

I just saw an ad where McCain-Palin talked about Obama's lawyers while showing images of wolves . . . I am neither amused nor impressed.

Edit: To be clear, it wasn't talking about wolf hunting, it was trying to compare Obama's people to ZOMG scary wolves.

Heh, considering what we lawyers are usually compared to, wolves are really very flattering. Brave, intelligent, loyal to the pack, form life-long bonds, tactical hunters, do not attack without provocation . . . yep, please, compare me to a wolf. Ok, what I do is more like a draft ox, but hey.

 

[Puckstop31]

Foxy, it would be very cool if you could find those links. Because like I said, I have seen nothing that tells me the aireal hunting is actually joe hunter. All I have seen is it being used, in limited areas, by Game Control Officers.

I want to know, because I too am VERY against "sport" hunting from aircraft. It is not sportsman like and if you have the money to hunt from a aircraft, you don't need to hunt to feed your family.

Not trying to dump on ya or anything, but if it was true that the hunting was by anybody other than Game Wardens, it would be all over the press.

 

[Puckstop31]

Heh, considering what we lawyers are usually compared to, wolves are really very flattering. Brave, intelligent, loyal to the pack, form life-long bonds, tactical hunters, do not attack without provocation . . . yep, please, compare me to a wolf. Ok, what I do is more like a draft ox, but hey.

Let say again... Lilavati, we don't always agree, but do you ever have an impressive mind.

Not that this compliment is much coming from me, but, well, ya know. LOL

 

[Renee750il]

Heh, considering what we lawyers are usually compared to, wolves are really very flattering. Brave, intelligent, loyal to the pack, form life-long bonds, tactical hunters, do not attack without provocation . . . yep, please, compare me to a wolf. Ok, what I do is more like a draft ox, but hey.

I thought it was sharks

 

[Laurelin]

Edit: I wonder that if the problem is the elk eating the willows, then perhaps shooting wolves is making the situation worse. Salmon aside, I remember reading that wolves almost never hunt moose . . . but I suspect they can, and do, hunt elk.

I know the preferred prey for the wolves in the yellowstone area and surrounding area is elk. They almost never take down anything else. Moose and bison are too big and for some reason they prefer the elk over the mule deer that are everywhere.

The issue is now becoming do we feed the elk in the refuge or not? Every winter there they feed the elk and the elk get into tight quarters. The fear is that they're decimating the moose population but worse is the fear of disease. They get packed in the refuge so tight a disease could wipe out the entire herd. They're so used to the winter feeding though that they estimate a third to half the herd could die if they stop feeding them through the winter.

Ah, I'm off on a tangent.

 

[Boemy]

I know the preferred prey for the wolves in the yellowstone area and surrounding area is elk. They almost never take down anything else. Moose and bison are too big and for some reason they prefer the elk over the mule deer that are everywhere.

The issue is now becoming do we feed the elk in the refuge or not? Every winter there they feed the elk and the elk get into tight quarters. The fear is that they're decimating the moose population but worse is the fear of disease. They get packed in the refuge so tight a disease could wipe out the entire herd. They're so used to the winter feeding though that they estimate a third to half the herd could die if they stop feeding them through the winter.

Ah, I'm off on a tangent.

Are you refering to the Jackson Hole, WY elk feeding or someplace else? Just curious!