OMG did anyone watch pedigree dogs exposed

[luna_17]

Hello all and welcome i just wanted to now all your opinions and queries on pedigree dogs exposed
do you think it is crufts that re-inforce breeding?
What do you think about pedigrees now?
what do you think about cross breeds?
i was watching this and i have to agree with what Mark evans was stating,
The programme shows spaniels with brains too big for their skulls and boxers suffering from epilepsy. The Kennel Club says it works tirelessly to improve the health of pedigree dogs. Pedigree animals make up 75% of the seven million dogs in the UK and cost their owners over £10m in vets' fees each week. its remarkable to think that their are soo many pedigrees out their with magnificant lines but the cross breeds are better off health wise.
I also thought it was wrong when the owners of king charles spaniel was still studing/breeding their dog with syringomyelia, it is even hereditary and passed onto their litters so they have spoilt those puppies lives already.
thanks for listening and i owuld love to hear your views on this subject as it made me very angry, and very much sad for those dogs watching this also putting rhodesian ridgebacks down that are perfectly healthy because they have no ridge that is outrageous
many thanks and kind regards
jessica
im sorry if this has made people angry i really dso apologise for that

 

[ACooper]

I did not see the show you are talking about.

But I have to agree with the health issues.

In my own personal experience and observations, mixed breed dogs seem to have a lower rate of health issues than pure bred dogs.

 

[Lilavati]

Well-bred, heath-tested, purebred dogs do not have significantly more health problems than mix-breeds. The problem is that for a long time people bred dogs they shouldn't have bred, and unfortunately, many people continue to do so today. Its a more complex issue than people often make it out to be, on both sides.


But yes, if you grab a random purebred, and a random mix, odds are that the mix is less likely to have health problems. Although many designer mixes, because they are created from related breeds, have just as many problems as purebreds. You don't get rid of hip dysplasia by breeding poor examples of two breeds prone to it together.

 

[Dekka]

I have not found that purebred are healthier. I know lots of mixed breeds that died of horrible things (genetic likely) BUT the problem with show bred pure breds is that it can be a case of the allmighty dollar or the allmighty ribbon. I know breeders who breed top winning dogs who are known carriers of health issues. AND they don't openly tell others.

The problem with assuming cross breed are healthier is where did they come from? They came from pure breds right? So now you are crossing health problems. You might not see them in the first generation but if you bred those crossbreds together you could get some very interesting health issues in the resulting litters.

For my opinion on Kennel clubs see http://chazhound.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1157123&postcount=59 so if they are saying that they "works tirelessly to improve the health of pedigree dogs" then they really have to step up to the plate.

 

[ACooper]

For the record, I was NOT talking about these "designer" mixes that people are forcing together. I have NO experience or observations to share about those type dogs.

My statement was about your random common variety mutt that could be found in any pound vs a purebred dog of your choosing of around the same size, yes, even the ones from "good breeders"

Furthermore, my statement was NOT attempting to knock well bred dogs. It is just my personal observation that health problems occur more often in purebred and even well bred dogs than in the common variety mixed breed (not intentionally bred by people) type dogs.

I think it comes from, as already stated, people breeding dogs that should never have been put together for far too long.

 

[ttwillow]

I think purebred anything...dogs, horses, cats, are more suseptable to genetic disorders, because they are inbred and linebred. I think many folks doing this dont really kow what they are doing or dont care even.

It is a shame that breeders are not sharing everything about their dogs. I have learned in the last few years that there is a national organization that keeps records on genetic information on bloodlines from owners who use the service..but many breeders do not.What a valuable tool going to waste. So much for their excuse of "I am breeding to improve the breed". Words are cheap..show me by your actions.

I know some breeders are doing health testing on hearts, ears, eyes, hips and knees...kudos to you for stepping in the correct direction.

I personally have stopped watching dog shows and horse races. For years I DID enjoy them. I just dont anymore. During Westminster this year I saw online where Petland was a sponserfor this show. I flipped out when I saw it but cannot seem to find the proof again. Petland is a huge national chain that sells PM puppies.

 

[mrose_s]

I havn't foudn purebreds or mixes healthier either. havn't ever had a purebred but we have 4 mixes and 3 of them have pretty serious genetic health issues, the 4th is only other 2 years old and we just havn't found anything wrong yet.

perhaps random mixes seem healthier than BYB purebred because there is a wider gene pool, or because your run of the mill mix breed is usually an oops litter therefore its more "survival of the fitest" than when people match dogs.

 

[Gempress]

Mixes aren't healthier. That's a myth, and doesn't really make any sense when you think about it. Crossbreeding makes the pup *less likely* to carry certain health problems, but it doesn't make it immune. Say you have a pup crossed from a breed prone to hip dysplasia to a breed prone to heart problems. You puppy is less likely to have either dysplasia or heart problems, but now has a chance for inheriting BOTH problems. And if you ask a vet, I bet they can tell you that they've treated plenty of mutts for both problems.

Heck, think of people! Most people in the United States are "mutts" from mixed heritage. We all admit it. But just because we're "mutts" doesn't mean that we don't have to worry about health problems that are common in both Mom AND Dad's side of the family!

I think your best chance for a healthy dog is to go with a purebred with lines that have been screened for potential health problems. But even so, it's not a guarantee.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

I read about it...that they used the word Nazi thruout...nice. People that use words like that are very close minded and I have little time for that sort of "journalism"...pretty much anything with "exposed" in the title is a step above Jerry Springer in my book.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

not to mention ALL DOGS are living many many years longer than they used to...but yep..things are going to crap...definitely.

Just like there are waaaay more pedophiles now than before...not...there's just more information available and indeed...shoved in our faces....than before.

 

[Lilavati]

Note what I said was random purebred and random mix breed . .. and statistical odds. And when I was thinking about mixed breeds, I was thinking of good ol' fashioned mutts. Mixed breeds are emphatically not immune to genetic disorders. But I suspect that they are less likely to get many of them (perhaps with the exception of hip dysplasia, which is common in most large breeds) for the very simple reason that you are less likely to get two copies of a bad gene in a "randomly" bred dog. I don't think anyone has actual done this study, but it stands to reason that if you pick a random mutt and random purebred (that is any purebred, not one from a good breeder) that you are less likely to have problems with the mutt, especially one of truely blended ancestory. It doesn't mean all purebreds are sick, or mutts are immune, just that, statistically, mutts (not designer mixes, as I stated above) are going to be less likely to have any genetic disease dependent on a recessive gene.

 

[taratippy]

I read about it...that they used the word Nazi thruout...nice. People that use words like that are very close minded and I have little time for that sort of "journalism"...pretty much anything with "exposed" in the title is a step above Jerry Springer in my book.

Perhaps if you watch it you may have a different outlook on it? How is it right to continue using a stud dog with hereditary health problems well known in the breed with the KC doing nothing about it?

This programme was nothing to do with mixes being healthier than purebreeds but the ethics behind some of the breeders and the problems that breed standards are bringing into some breeds.

You can watch it here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/

if anyone is interested.

 

[ACooper]

not to mention ALL DOGS are living many many years longer than they used to...but yep..things are going to crap...definitely.

Just like there are waaaay more pedophiles now than before...not...there's just more information available and indeed...shoved in our faces....than before.

There probably ARE more pedophiles than there were before...........but that is because there are MORE people than there were before I would say percentages are the same though.......I understand what you mean.

It would be like comparing the number of car wrecks today vs the number of car wrecks 30 years ago. More cars on the road and all that.

 

[ACooper]

Perhaps if you watch it you may have a different outlook on it? How is it right to continue using a stud dog with hereditary health problems well known in the breed with the KC doing nothing about it?

This programme was nothing to do with mixes being healthier than purebreeds but the ethics behind some of the breeders and the problems that breed standards are bringing into some breeds.

You can watch it here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/

if anyone is interested.

Thanks for the link Tara........I will watch it later on when I have more time!

 

[OutlineACDs]

Perhaps if you watch it you may have a different outlook on it? How is it right to continue using a stud dog with hereditary health problems well known in the breed with the KC doing nothing about it?

This programme was nothing to do with mixes being healthier than purebreeds but the ethics behind some of the breeders and the problems that breed standards are bringing into some breeds.

You can watch it here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/

if anyone is interested.

I haven't watched the show, but how do they qualify the breeders that they interview etc? I actually did know of one TRUE puppymiller who showed their dogs. ONE in my almost 10 yrs of showing in AKC. That doesn't mean that all people who show are puppymillers or don't care about health.

The dogs are only as good as the people who own them. As in, if they are owned by a dishonest person you can never be sure that the dog is truly healthy. I am honest to a fault about my dogs. I'm sure there are nice, honest breeders out there who are doing nothing but trying to better their breed. Just because the TV crew who did the show picked out every dishonest breeder out there to interview/follow their dogs doesn't mean that it was a majority.

 

[xpaeanx]

Thanks for the link Tara........I will watch it later on when I have more time!

I just tried to watch it, it only allows you to view it if your located in the UK.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

If they didn't equally cover the many many people who do things right I have really no interest in it...because it is slanted and biased from the get go.

Nothing is perfect and in about any pursuit where animals are involved there are going to be extremists who think everyone is evil...those with blinders on who see nothing bad ever happening...and the ones somewhere in between.

I know what problems my breeds face...and from what I can see in our community of Beaglers...note is being taken and things are changing for the better. That's what I am concerned with.

BTW bad ethics are around in every facet of dogdom...including performance events and working circles. I suppose that would be the next target...just an overall "expose'" on how bad all dog breeders are.

Generalizations give me terrible gas.

 

[mrose_s]

Won't let me watch because I'm not in the UK, but I found it on youtube, its in 6, 10 minute parts, heres part 1.

A bit of a warning, some graphic stuff, seizures, medical procedures and dogs in pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1LyjlX4Mp8


Looks sensationalist and I've only watched the first couple of minutes but it looks like a stab at PB dogs, what we need to do is stab the BYB's

 

[HoundedByHounds]

pretty much what I figured. Even Oprah managed to do a better job...and that's not saying much LMAO.

 

[taratippy]

I haven't watched the show, but how do they qualify the breeders that they interview etc? I actually did know of one TRUE puppymiller who showed their dogs. ONE in my almost 10 yrs of showing in AKC. That doesn't mean that all people who show are puppymillers or don't care about health.

The dogs are only as good as the people who own them. As in, if they are owned by a dishonest person you can never be sure that the dog is truly healthy. I am honest to a fault about my dogs. I'm sure there are nice, honest breeders out there who are doing nothing but trying to better their breed. Just because the TV crew who did the show picked out every dishonest breeder out there to interview/follow their dogs doesn't mean that it was a majority.

The breeders involved were all highly respected in their breeds and have shown at crufts.

Shame you cant view it in the US it did make for very interesting viewing, it was not only about breeding practises and using dogs with hereditary problems but also the standards that are encouraging health problems such as breathing etc.

It also highlighted the fact that many perfectly healthy pups are put down because they do not reach those standards - it interviewed a breeder of ridgebacks who openly admitted culling pups with no ridge - either by a vet or not.

I dont think anyone is saying that all breeders are bad but that there are many things to be aware of when purchasing or breeding dogs. It has certainly opened a lot of debate here in the UK.