Oldie but goodie... BYB and Puppymiller's book of excuses

[dandandat]

Okay I had enough this smells like a troll who joined only after the post about this subject was listed.

You are making assumptions based on your own LACK of knowledge in the area.
We answer your questions for you to reword them and to ask them again.

I wrote this and last post on the matter since all you wish to do is to blow SMOKE screens arounds the facts.

Chaz was started many years ago.
Most people dont just pop in on a site with stated views ex PRO back yard breeding on a anti dog breeding site.
Unless they are kids. Chaz kids ,even the ones from backyard breeder parents are the future of ethical dog breeding.

So this thread a "oldie but a goodie" is posted on June 7th
You out of the blue join June 8th

And out of the 100 or more of recents threads posted between that day & today this is the one you choose to take a stand on is this one.
Added you do NOT intro yourself under intros.
You post a few non combative posts but find you way back to this one time and time again.

You respond to me stating a fact that you alleged "shelter dogs" came from backyard breeders.
With sarcasm, another alert goes up, most who adopt would of responded with ex OMG you should of seen the conditon my dog was in, or I was lucky to get him or her out,or I spent this money to try to help this issue, or the worse cases I saw when I was there, or my friend had this in her shelter dog.

Not with sarcasm and more smoke created around a very CLEAR topic.

My own personal wish is that their is a Rainbow HELL for backyard breeders, millers and advocates there of.

So all the pain and suffering caused by them comes back to them in the end.

You dont need to be a backyard breeder or a breeder to take a stand on breeding for the betterment of the breed..

YOU JUST NEED TO BE A HUMAN WITH A HEART!

Planet Molosser, you are clearly upset, that was never my intention. I would suggest you take a step back and maybe let the thread go. There is no reason to become upset over a message board.

But for your benefit, I will explain once again I am not pro-back yard breading. I would not even have a reason to be pro-back-yard breading as every animal I have gotten has come from a shelter or rescue where they require the animal be fixed or where they already do the fixing. So I could not make money off of back yard breading. I also explained to you that I don’t know a single person that breads in any fashion.

I joined this message board to ask a simple question about my dog and the hot whether we are having. I asked my question and I got an answer from someone. While I appreciated the answer, I was looking for more information so continued to come back to this sight to see if others had answered, in that time I read posts like this one and decided to participate. The message board itself seems to be neatly run and many of the people appear to be nice and helpful. Others have seemed to be full of them selves.

As for this post, I made one comment and others answered it, I answered them and so on. That’s what happens on a message board. Of course I would be gravited to this thread because I am engaged in it.

What happened however is that you have become upset because you do not like the fact that I am questioning your position on the matter. That’s fine and a normal reaction. But there is no reason to attack me personally, I have not done the same to you.

I understand you are passionate about the subject and perhaps a debate about it is not something for you. I on other hand enjoy a good debate, which was happening here until you became overly emotional about it. Which again is a normal reaction due to the passion you feel for the subject.


Why would I respond to your condescending post explaining what a shelter is as if I would not be intelligent enough to know what they are with out your help with anything but sarcasm? And why would I say OMG and rattle off about shelters? Truth of the matter was, the shelters I’ve been to where quite nice, the dogs where being well cared for and you could tell the people running them where in love with the dogs and where trying to make a difference in their pore lives.

 

[dandandat]

A dog that is amazing in conformation is one that has reached a HOF (hall of fame, this goes per breed) or one that has produced multiple champions and has a ROM or ROMX title. If you have questions about what those are, you should look them up. I'm not much of a teacher.

An amazing agility dog would have an MACH of 15 or 16 (if they are AKC registered). I don't know much about the other registeries.

It just depends on what YOU as a buyer would want the dog for. Obviously, if you want a working dog, your breeder would have Schutzhund titles or Herding titles PLUS the health certs.

I don't think I'm speaking greek here, LOL!

What I don’t understand about your response, is that the Amazing criteria was to pass a dog with only one title. But in your definition of Amazing you describe it as a dog with multiple titles.

 

[planet molosser]

PS Troll im not upset _ i feel _ very sorry for people like you.

And I dream than Rainbow hell does find you one day.
Becasue I believe you are a backer of these breeders or one yourself.
No other person would take this position without having a agenda to undertake.

PS I was on the debate team you need to answer and explain your position to be in a debate and have direct knowledge of the subject- being debated would result in you being DQ from the debate on the first round.
As you were here many posts ago.

 

[agilityretrievers]

An amazing agility dog would have an MACH of 15 or 16 (if they are AKC registered).

Do you mean 15 or 16 MACHs? There are only three of those, a MACH17 Keeshond, a MACH16 Sheltie, and a MACH15 Papillon. The Keeshond is ILP and 13 years old, the Sheltie is 10, and the Papillon is 8. While those are certainly great agility dogs, it also has a lot to do with being able to compete a LOT, having $25,000+ to put into entry fees, and being able to compete for many many years. And there have been many many amazing agility dogs based on accomplishments in national/international competition who don't have nearly that many MACHs (the Papillon has won Nationals several times but he's the only one I remember seeing even making the finals lately).

 

[dandandat]

PS Troll im not upset _ i feel _ very sorry for people like you.

And I dream than Rainbow hell does find you one day.
Becasue I believe you are a backer of these breeders or one yourself.

But you see the real sad thing is that you are wishing hell on someone you don’t even know, and is not how you describe. Hate has blinded you, and I’m sorry for that. You really need to let the hate go, hate is consuming and while it may start off as legitimate, toward those how hurt others, it is insidious and grows to a point where you start hating more and more people. To day its just some guy a message board who will it be tomorrow?

 

[planet molosser]

LOL I wont remember you after the thread is gone only a selfish person would assume that you matter _you dont.

But I do believe a eye for a eye and anyone who advocates backyard breeding in any form of a debate or not.
Will get just desserts in the end its called Karma I did not make it up.

PS IVE arrested junkies, forcing them to DRY out after they tried to KILL me.
And I dont hate them, I feel just as sorry for them as you.

 

[noludoru]

Troll Warning.

PM, you're too nice to get your feathers ruffled here... this guy is just a troll who wants to **** people off, that was more than obvious by his first and second posts.

Using the ignore button and jumping out of this thread now.... marinading some turkey.. anyone want some?

 

[Bahamutt99]

Why does she bread then, assuming she is not a show breeder? she enjoys her work?

To improve the breed. I know, novel concept. BTW, see the RIP? She doesn't do much of anything anymore, and the breed will greatly miss those kind of strong ethics.

ETA: Since you are assuming she isn't a show breeder, I will assume you didn't visit the link I posted. Lora did show. And work. And health-test. She did many things with her dogs before breeding them.

 

[dandandat]

To improve the breed. I know, novel concept. BTW, see the RIP? She doesn't do much of anything anymore, and the breed will greatly miss those kind of strong ethics.

ETA: Since you are assuming she isn't a show breeder, I will assume you didn't visit the link I posted. Lora did show. And work. And health-test. She did many things with her dogs before breeding them.

I apologies. I did not notice the RIP, that was inconsiderate of me to ask about her in the present tense. I hope you can accept my apology.

 

[lakotasong]

First of all, stop feeding the troll ya'll. If you do a post search by screen name, you'll see it's full of :spam:

Anyway, another quote that should be in the Big Book of Old Excuses is this:

"My dogs work, therefore I don't have to health test, because if there was something wrong I'd see it."

I hear that one oh too often and the stupidity just astounds me.

 

[Wimble Woof]

While your definition "the good breeder only breeds to improve the breed" sounds good in the abstract, I am sure their are countless back yard breads that think they are improving the breed,

Its right there, plain and simple.
A "good breeder" knows they are improving the breed, they have ensured the dog is a) to standard /proven working b) genetically sound c) breed to produce exceptional specimens of the breed.

A Back yard breeder only thinks they are improving the breed. They see no need for clearances (its just a waste of money right??) they see no need to meet breed standards ( they are breeding because their dog was "sweet" or "cute" and want to share that with others) and they think people who do "waste" time and money proveing their dogs are just looking for excuses to put them down and make them look bad.

Now, believe me,I would LOVE nothing more in this world than to have a pup out of my Nikita gurl, you know to carry on her personality, her looks, and her name, but the reality of it is... she is a mixed breed, does not conform to any standard, and has unknown lineage. If I were to have bred her for my own selfish reasons, her pups and her pups pups would most likely be filling shelters by now.
She was spayed. I dont regret my descision as there is no benifit for anyone else but me, to have bred her.

 

[Dekka]

First I don’t know any breeders, or BYB, I haven’t gotten any dogs from Breeders or BYB or Stores. My dogs have come from shelters or rescues.

But I have read many posts like this one around the internet. And I always have to wonder if there isn’t any truth to number 3, even if just a little bit.

Ok hate me now I can take it.

Ok I hate you, glad you can take it But seriously, I breed, my dogs show...I am NOT snobby lol, I have posted many times on the importance on keeping the genetic diversity in our breeds. So anyone who says that, really doesn't know the dog world at all. For every 'snobby' breeder I meet, I meet 10 down to earth breeders. So anyone saying this isn't out there promoting their breed now are they?

edited to add...I love feeding the trolls.

 

[Sush]

opcorn: Hehe

 

[noludoru]

*slight cough*

The Elements of Trolling by Orglif

Step One: Case the Joint. No, this has nothing to do with weed. When preparing for a troll, take a moment to survey your environment. Do a headcount. If you have to, spend a day or two lurking and watching the flow of conversation between members to get an idea of the who's who and what's what of your mark.

Step Two: Pick a Choice Topic. My favorites are religion, politics, or sexuality. People are more willing to do battle when it's something they feel strongly about, and with those three topics are you more likely to find the people you need to pull a game like this off. Choose wisely, and pick something you're at least remotely familiar with so you don't sound like a complete ass.

Step Three: Get into Character. Your topic has been picked and you're gearing up for some fun. Now the key is to develop an attitude or a character of sorts, a persona that you want to play. Something wholly contradictory to the status quo that you observed during your time Casing the Joint. It's imperative that you choose a persona that won't come across as brash or ignorant on a non-confrontational platform, as during your challenge you'll be under criticism from all fronts and need as much footing as you can get. If you at least sound articulate, you'll get more attention and be twice as irritating to your mark. [Nol's edit: take a hint, there, whiled.]

Step Four: Set Your Bait. At first, you'll be temped to start your own thread and fill it with nonsensical idiocy. AVOID THIS. Your best bet is to take an existing topic and drop a simple one or two sentence troll and leave it alone, letting the line grow still as the fish sniff your worm. It's important that you sound serious enough to have your opinion considered, and yet silly enough to illicit a reaction from the general population who feels the need to "correct" you. Avoid base, crude nonsense like: "FUKK U SUCK @#%$" as the scope and range of your audience will diminish almost instantaneously when people realize you're nothing more than a stupid kid who never learned how to communicate. Remember: the less you say, the less they'll have to use against you. My personal favorite is an offhand joke, a snide remark or quip that offers very little of my persona's opinion, but reeks of condescension and generally leaves a foul taste in the reader's mouth. It's the quickest way to get a bite.

Step Five: Keep Your Calm. Once someone snags your bait, maintain a cool head and keep your focus. Don't spring at the first person to nibble; there are often people in groups who'll take the altruistic approach and bite soft, hoping to lure you out of hiding and reveal your true intentions. Don't be fooled. Tug back, but gently. Defend your position with enough energy to ruffle a few more feathers, but play it soft. The softer you tug, the more people you'll get hooked on your line tugging back.

Step Six: Yank the Line. You've gotten 4 or 5 people hooked to your crap now. They've surrendered their attention to you and are now yours to @#%$ with. At this point, feel free to yank the line as hard as you like. Remember though! Articulation and coherency are the key here! I usually single out one person on the line to hit the hardest; not the dumbest or the dullest as they'll quickly surrender to scrambled flames and stupidity. Pick someone intelligent--smart enough to fight back, but not smart enough to smell your troll. Say things they DONT want to hear in a manner they cannot help but listen to; again, avoid FUKK COK DICK TAMPON SMOKER as they wont listen to it.

Step Seven: Stamina, Stamina, Stamina. The battles might be long, twisted, and brutal, sometimes lasting for days. The trick is to keep that level head and constantly be aware of your opponents. More than once you'll be counter-trolled: someone trolling you back hoping to ruffle your feathers and make you loose footing. It's important to see those coming, and call them on it. Remember, you're aren't trolling, you're debating. At least, that's what you want them to think, right?

Step Eight: Stay Mobile. This means always be on your toes. Once a person is defeated (easily identified by their lack of participation or incoherency) move on to someone else quickly. If you linger on someone who's already bowed out, you'll come across as impetuous and rude. This is a joke you're playing on people; it's important that you remember this so that you'll always have the pretense of good humor to fall back on. Be sure they're really done before moving on, though, as having to reply to multiple participants can get strenuous.

Step Nine: Bow Out. Don't just disappear from the havoc you've created. Make it known that you're leaving the mess, often because "they just don't understand," or another semi-valid excuse. Leave on a note that offers nothing and they'll have nothing to try and tug you back with. You'll be tempted, for sure, but once you bite their lure, you are nothing but a monkey dancing for THEM this time. Gracefully step away from the mess, and don't look back (unless you want to keep it for a scrapbook).

---

Okay, that's it. You can churn the waters in virtually any environment with these 9 basic steps. Class dismissed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Back to feeding the troll, ladies and gents. opcorn:

 

[Bahamutt99]

Here's another good link about responsible breeder vs. BYB. I'd copy everything, but I'm a bit tired after agility class.

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html