OFA elbows...

[Spiritus]

Okay, I might have missed it, but I am starting an elbow thread. This is in relation to Redyre's litter, but not specific to it. I'm going to use her dogs, and my own in this post.

There is a reason why I don't OFA my dogs. I don't believe OFA should be given the "power" to decide who should be bred and who shouldn't be. I do not have much faith in their evaluations of hips, and even less of elbows.

Redyre's bitch, Penny, is DJD1 in 1 elbow as per OFA. OVC says she's normal. I would be more inclined to believe OVC than OFA. And here's why...

My now-neutered boy was xrayed by the Western College of Veterinary Medicine. Not only xrayed, but evaluated and graded. WCVM does two different views of the elbows versus OFA's 1 view. In the "OFA" view, the vet noticed a shadow on one elbow. They retook the xray, the shadow was still there. But, in the second view, there was no sign of it (they retook the second veiw too, just to be sure). The vet informed me that OFA would not pass that elbow. He told me that he would pass it "for now", but asked that I come back in a year to re-xray. He said that if the shadow truly was dysplasia, there would be a change. He told me that the shadow could be just growth related. I went back a year later. Actually, a year to the day later. We re-did the elbow. The shadow was GONE. Absolutely NO sign of dysplasia. If I had bowed to the OFA god's, I would have believed my dog was dysplastic when he truly is not. The vets at the college were so pleased that I actually came back for the follow-up, they only charged me 1/2 price for the xray, and now use those films to teach their students.

The vets that I see at the WCVM used to be on the OFA board of vets back when the OFA actually had a board. They KNOW what they are looking at and they know what they are doing. I can safely say that I will never use OFA for a dog I own. If something happens and WCVM discontinues evaluation of hips/elbows, I will likely use OVC or PennHip.

 

[ChRotties]

I, for one, have doubts re OFA elbows when it comes to Rottweilers. Again, I'm just speaking about my breed here...and my feelings on the subject.
If all other health clearances are fine, and it's a 1 or 2...to me it's not a huge issue, provided the animal in question is not exhibiting signs of a problem.

Sometimes, I honestly don't know what the OFA is looking for when it comes to my breed.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

I'm not sure that the whole "I believe in this evaluating registry over another because they passed my dog and the vet claims that OFA wouldn't have" is a really valid reason to say one health registry is better than another. Of COURSE you like it when your dog passed. But you're going on the word of one vet that OFA wouldn't have passed your dog.

For a vet to say "I'll pass you FOR NOW" seems really wishy-washy and I personally don't know that I'd be comfortable with that. If there was a shadow on the x-ray and you waited a year to submit it to OFA, you may very well have passed there too.

It seems like I hear about a lot of dogs that pass in OVC that didn't in OFA, or say they wouldn't have passed through OFA. All that does is make me question the validity of OVC and why they're choosing to pass these possibly "iffy" dogs. In a case like yours, the WCVM passed the dog even though there was obviously a question, and if a year later there had been obvious dysplasia, the dog could have been bred for a full year based on the "pass" by the vet that wasn't sure it was truly valid.

That doesn't raise any feelings of confidence in me.

OFA doesn't have the "power" to say who is bred and who isn't. They merely offer an educated evaluation of x-rays. THREE vets examine the x-rays at OFA (not sure how OVC does it). You are able to submit new x-rays for re-evaluation if you want. And OFA has done a huge amount to open people's eyes and educate on the topics of various health problems in dogs.

And I also like that you can search the OFA website to verify that dogs HAVE been evaluated and passed. You can't do that through OVC.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[Spiritus]

You missed my point. My point was not "I believe in this evaluating registry over another because they passed my dog and the vet claims that OFA wouldn't have". My point was that OFA doesn't look at the whole picture. I believe OFA is quick to call any abnormality dyspasia, when that is not necessarily what it is. And the only time the third OFA vet gets to see the films is if the first two don't agree.

At WCVM, several vets view the films, as do students. I like the idea that "fresh" eyes see them. WCVM is working on developing a database similar to OFA's, and all my evaluations are posted on my website, not just the results, but the actual certificate. And at least in my breed, very rarely does OFA change a rating. VERY rarely.

And I DO believe breeding decisions are very much influenced by OFA. Look how people jumped on Redyre because of the OFA ratings! That specific thread proves that perception is if you do something against OFA's advice, you're doing damage to your breed, and I don't believe that is so.

When people import puppies from overseas, they don't expect the breeder to submit the parent's xrays to OFA. I live in a country that has it's own ratings, and I have a right to use those ratings. Just because I am on the same continent as OFA doesn't mean I "must" use them.

 

[FoxyWench]

my biggest problem with OFA is the fact that they take 1 angle. even in human xrays they go from different angles in order to get a better overall look at any possible problems, whats shadowed from one angle might not be from another ect. id have more faith in ofa if they took a look at multiple filrms of the same joint before makign a desicscion.

 

[ChRotties]

I agree with Foxy and Spiritus.
IMO, the OFA is a great tool. I personally believe that they have a long way to go in evaluating elbows.

To me, I feel it's important to not only look at their certifications, but to look as much as possible at offspring, siblings, etc..are they lame? do they have problems? Did they have any injuries that might have contributed? etc..
Anyhow, that's my opinion.

There are many others in Rotties that feel the way I do...that the OFa has miles to go in evaluating elbows.

 

[wolfsoul]

I completely agree. I must say that I have been pressured into using OFA by several breeders who like the online database. Well, if WCVM is making an online database, I will definatly switch over to that. It is what Silvie Montier uses and she swears by it.

OFA is based on alot of opinion. I know a sheltie breeder who sent in an x-ray and recieved a fair rating. She asked for another set of opnions and the x-ray was reevaluated -- her score was changed to an excellent. All because of the opinions of different vets. OFA will rate hips based on the amount of bone the dog has, which is ridiculous. Bone thickness has nothing to do with hip dysplasia.